My 4 nations concept

[Jparrish]

Thought I'd knock up an idea for a comp at the end of 2024.

While tests series can be great I dont think they capitalise on the amount of good quality teams we have in RL at the moment. I know France will be just making up the numbers competitively but they would be much more cost effective than flying over and paying a third SH team. I've suggested ideal locations but id see which cities want to bid to host international sport first and select accordingly.

I'd be open to Frances place being taken by FIJI or PNG if people think the comp would still profit 

England,  New Zealand, Samoa, France. 

Week 1. England v NZ: London France v Samoa: York

Week 2. England V Samoa: North East

France v New Zealand: Albi/Perpignan/Toulouse 

Week 3. England v France: Midlands/ South Yorkshire 

Samoa v New Zealand: Headingly stadium Leeds 

Week 4 (Final) Etihad stadium 

Get a competition sponsor and get the games on BBC 1 or C4

 

[JM2010]

It all comes down to costs. I agree France should be involved, or the winner of a competition between NH clubs at the end of this season (I know the Euros are cancelled). 2 - 4 SH clubs coming over and playing in a tournament would be attractive for TV and fans.

Lets just organise things without Australia otherwise nothing will happen 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Jparrish said:

Thought I'd knock up an idea for a comp at the end of 2024.

While tests series can be great I dont think they capitalise on the amount of good quality teams we have in RL at the moment. I know France will be just making up the numbers competitively but they would be much more cost effective than flying over and paying a third SH team. I've suggested ideal locations but id see which cities want to bid to host international sport first and select accordingly.

I'd be open to Frances place being taken by FIJI or PNG if people think the comp would still profit 

England,  New Zealand, Samoa, France. 

Week 1. England v NZ: London France v Samoa: York

Week 2. England V Samoa: North East

France v New Zealand: Albi/Perpignan/Toulouse 

Week 3. England v France: Midlands/ South Yorkshire 

Samoa v New Zealand: Headingly stadium Leeds 

Week 4 (Final) Etihad stadium 

Get a competition sponsor and get the games on BBC 1 or C4

 

I like that, and they could substitute Samoa for either Tonga or Fiji and it would be as good.  I’d have all of France’s games in France though. 

[RP London]

7 hours ago, Eddie said:

I like that, and they could substitute Samoa for either Tonga or Fiji and it would be as good.  I’d have all of France’s games in France though. 

Yes, one game in England one in France each week.

[Jparrish]

I'd be happy for the whole tournament to be in France if they could get the funding for it. 

I'm sure I read the French government were "willing to make up for it" after pulling the WC funding 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Jparrish said:

I'd be happy for the whole tournament to be in France if they could get the funding for it. 

I'm sure I read the French government were "willing to make up for it" after pulling the WC funding 

I imagine rugby league is the least of their concerns, as parochial as it sounds. Ludicrously be more interested in inflation, healthcare, race riots, unemployment and so on. 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

I proposed something similar last year, the four nations was a successful end of season tournament, but where I would slightly differ from your proposal would be to include the State of Origin winners, as I think that would really raise the bar and the commercial interest in the UK for TV and just general interest would be immense.

to appease the Aussies and so they don’t get travel fatigue, we could have 2 teams from the following to play in the tournament each season (World Cup year excluded)

tonga, NZ, Auz, Fiji, Samoa, Papua NG, Queensland or NSW

i would suggest the state of origin winners when Papua NG were touring to help with the profile of that tournament 

[Damien]

16 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I proposed something similar last year, the four nations was a successful end of season tournament, but where I would slightly differ from your proposal would be to include the State of Origin winners, as I think that would really raise the bar and the commercial interest in the UK for TV and just general interest would be immense.

to appease the Aussies and so they don’t get travel fatigue, we could have 2 teams from the following to play in the tournament each season (World Cup year excluded)

tonga, NZ, Auz, Fiji, Samoa, Papua NG, Queensland or NSW

i would suggest the state of origin winners when Papua NG were touring to help with the profile of that tournament 

No, no and thrice no.

NSW and Queensland are states and have no place in the international game.

[JM2010]

13 minutes ago, Damien said:

No, no and thrice no.

NSW and Queensland are states and have no place in the international game.

Completely agree 

[Man of Kent]

I’d like to a see a 10-team comp called ‘Four Nations, Three Counties, Two States and One Crown Dependency’.

eg.

Wales vs. New South Wales

England vs. Yorkshire

Tonga vs. Cornwall

Queensland vs. Cumbria

France vs. Sark

[Barley Mow]

43 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I’d like to a see a 10-team comp called ‘Four Nations, Three Counties, Two States and One Crown Dependency’.

eg.

Wales vs. New South Wales

England vs. Yorkshire

Tonga vs. Cornwall

Queensland vs. Cumbria

France vs. Sark

That's all obviously a fantastic idea, but couldn't possibly go ahead because Sark isn't actually a Crown Dependency but a jurisdiction of Guernsey (which is a Crown Dependency).

Edited July 15, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I’d like to a see a 10-team comp called ‘Four Nations, Three Counties, Two States and One Crown Dependency’.

eg.

Wales vs. New South Wales

England vs. Yorkshire

Tonga vs. Cornwall

Queensland vs. Cumbria

France vs. Sark

The last thing we needs is Sarky comments 

[HawkMan]

The problem with a RL 4N or 5 or 6N is that its an obviously artificial competition,  it doesn't mean anything. Just a group of nations put together for a tournament,  which is fine for RL diehards, but why would the general public be bothered?

The RU 6N is a European championship, the winner is de facto champs of Europe,  also Southern Hemisphere version likewise, the best of SH. You see the problem selling a RL 4N to the media?

[Damien]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

The problem with a RL 4N or 5 or 6N is that its an obviously artificial competition,  it doesn't mean anything. Just a group of nations put together for a tournament,  which is fine for RL diehards, but why would the general public be bothered?

The RU 6N is a European championship, the winner is de facto champs of Europe,  also Southern Hemisphere version likewise, the best of SH. You see the problem selling a RL 4N to the media?

It wasn't seen as a problem before. I think any regular competition between the best 4 nations would be extremely popular.

[ATLANTISMAN]

7 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

That's all obviously a fantastic idea, but couldn't possibly go ahead because Sark isn't actually a Crown Dependency but a jurisdiction of Guernsey (which is a Crown Dependency).

Totally correct there have been some strange legal matters there over the last few years as well including a Lithuania guy setting up a Sark company registry.

Remember the SARK LARK one old boy was a director of over 400 companies for which he charged £500.00 a year which included your own answerphone machine in his greenhouse:)

 

Nice work if you can get it:)

[Big Picture]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

It wasn't seen as a problem before. I think any regular competition between the best 4 nations would be extremely popular.

That was when it was always England, Australia, New Zealand and one other from the same hemisphere where it was played, that's completely different from the OP's suggestion.

I can't see tiny little countries like Tonga and Samoa being a drawcard for the broader public considering that those countries are barely ever heard about in other sports and are somewhat competitive in only one other sport (RU).  They aren't competitive with Northern Hemisphere countries in RU, their records against the Six Nations are 5 wins and 26 losses and 11 wins and 37 losses respectively.

[HawkMan]

22 minutes ago, Damien said:

It wasn't seen as a problem before. I think any regular competition between the best 4 nations would be extremely popular.

The best four yes, that's Australia, NZ, England and Samoa, but what about a 4N with England, NZ, Tonga and Wales just as an example. How do you sell that to non RL fans? The winner of that is just the best of those teams nowt else. No problem selling to RL fans,none at all, but the wider public? And a 4N between the top 4 is just a mini WC. There's a limit to what you can do with so few International teams playing the game. There's also a limit to how much importance you can attach to the International game, which is why Australia don't really care, and I'm not minded to put a lot of blame on them for that.

Edited July 15, 2023 by HawkMan

[Damien]

29 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

The best four yes, that's Australia, NZ, England and Samoa, but what about a 4N with England, NZ, Tonga and Wales just as an example. How do you sell that to non RL fans? The winner of that is just the best of those teams nowt else. No problem selling to RL fans,none at all, but the wider public? And a 4N between the top 4 is just a mini WC. There's a limit to what you can do with so few International teams playing the game. There's also a limit to how much importance you can attach to the International game, which is why Australia don't really care, and I'm not minded to put a lot of blame on them for that.

Lets just not play any games then. Jesus wept.

[HawkMan]

35 minutes ago, Damien said:

Lets just not play any games then. Jesus wept.

Absolutely not ! I didn't imply that. I'd have 8 team World Cups, every three years. Smaller therefore easier to put on, less blowouts, previous semi finalists automatically qualify. Rest have play offs to qualify. Which means a few  of the bigger teams having to go through qualifying,  Tonga ,Fiji PNG, playing against minnows, giving them valuable games to progress themselves in the way that smaller nations in football like Albania Norway Finland etc got better by playing the big teams. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by HawkMan

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

Absolutely not ! I didn't imply that. I'd have 8 team World Cups, every three years. Smaller therefore easier to put on, less blowouts, previous semi finalists automatically qualify. Rest have play offs to qualify. Which means a few  of the bigger teams having to go through qualifying,  Tonga ,Fiji PNG, playing against minnows, giving them valuable games to progress themselves in the way that smaller nations in football like Albania Norway Finland etc got better by playing the big teams. 

So what do the semi finalists do in between WCs?

[HawkMan]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

So what do the semi finalists do in between WCs?

Re-read my post carefully,  I didn't say the WC qualifying games were the only ones played in between World Cups.

Tours ,Test series can still be played.

 A year before WC play the qualifiers. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by HawkMan

[Jparrish]

I can see people being concerned about pacific islands team being hard to sell to non/casual RL fans that's why NZ being on board would be crucial. I've got Samoa playing in the heartlands or in a small stadium in 2 of there games. England v New Zealand as one of the marquee games in London its about picking the right locations for the right games 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

On 15/07/2023 at 07:54, Damien said:

No, no and thrice no.

NSW and Queensland are states and have no place in the international game.

Most of the nations have no place in the international game either - Scotland and Ireland, Spain, Malta, Lebanon etc 

I would rather watch England v Queensland or NSW than a one sided England v France international 

[The Masked Poster]

On 15/07/2023 at 17:54, HawkMan said:

The best four yes, that's Australia, NZ, England and Samoa, but what about a 4N with England, NZ, Tonga and Wales just as an example. How do you sell that to non RL fans? The winner of that is just the best of those teams nowt else. No problem selling to RL fans,none at all, but the wider public? And a 4N between the top 4 is just a mini WC. There's a limit to what you can do with so few International teams playing the game. There's also a limit to how much importance you can attach to the International game, which is why Australia don't really care, and I'm not minded to put a lot of blame on them for that.

A non RL fan has no idea whether Wales or Tonga are world beaters in RL. In fact, due to the RU teams from there they maybe assume they are. 
The 4N was a great competition and I still don’t understand why it was canned. 

[Damien]

16 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

A non RL fan has no idea whether Wales or Tonga are world beaters in RL. In fact, due to the RU teams from there they maybe assume they are. 
The 4N was a great competition and I still don’t understand why it was canned. 

Well it was canned because it was meant to be replaced by the bigger and better Confederations Cup. Thank the NRL for that not happening.