STAGGERING LOSSES

[OnStrike]

6 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

PRP involves a low basic and huge incentives to succeed, by doing so the parent gains far more than the individual. Sacking means that ie bye bye no sweet heart pay off to go quietly. Should you mutually agree closure then the basic is low so the payment is low with PRP. People with complete confidence in their ability to overachieve prefer the accelerated rewards of PRP as they back themselves, plodders and non achievers prefer the higher basic

Give me a higher basic negotiated by a union all day over leaving my wages at the mercy of an incompetent, over promoted manager! Plodder and proud!

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Dave T said:

I do think we are a little small-time when we focus on stuff like this. 

These two employees were operating at exec level and had been with the RFL for 12 and 14 years - of course they are going to be getting a decent payoff. 

None of that is any kind of endorsement of their employment in the first place, but the issue here is that we aren't generating enough money, not that we are meeting our employment requirements.

Unless he was fired - why is he getting any payoff?

He also walked into a top job at the RFU.

I have worked at the same frim for 27 years but wouldn't expect a pay off if I left - not in the slightest. But when it's someone else's money it is always easy to throw it about.

[Click]

I always assumed that most "high paying" jobs came with some kind of money in case of being fired, etc. (I am assuming a lot of these may have some clause for gross negligence, etc)

Guess I am used to always seeing it in football when a manager gets sacked and gets millions in a payout to leave. 

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Obviously the idea of performance related pay hasnt made it. to the corridors of RFL, otherwise Rimmer would be paying the RFL.

Performance related pay would just mean huge bonuses. It wouldn't mean we'd get people on low pay, that's not how the world works. 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Even with performance related pay you'll still get a notice period and a pay off.

That's how contracted full-time employment works.

If you want the RFL exec team to be on gig economy contracts then ... well, good luck with that.

Execs on performance related pay still earn big bucks, they just get a nice fat bonus too if they hit targets. 

Execs just don't get paid peanuts anywhere. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

Nobody who gets 'sacked' should get any payment, payments are made for fixed term contracts finishing early or whereby there is not enough to sack them and mutual agreement is reached. IMO the RFL had enough to sack him but didnt want to - hence the severance pay or notice pay.

The only way they could have sacked Rimmer would have been around any misconduct charge for his Fiji comments. But that's a slightly separate issue. 

He wasn't sacked, he was let go, which comes with a payoff. It's quite standard stuff. 

You can't just sack people because you fancy getting somebody else in. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

This is generally the case - your last sentence is key here, they've now paid off numerous people in a relatively short period of time - that seems to me that the inherent issues are still there - who actually appoints these people, are they the actual issue? 

Agreed. I would say though that I'm not sure any RL administrator in the UK has ever had any support from fans. We think they are all useless. 

We then see experts get involved with things like tv rights sales or sponsorship etc. and they fail too. It's a tough job. 

[idrewthehaggis]

It is worth noting that profitability is not the sole purpose of the RFL. Its KPIs includes organization of the Game (which it succeeded okish during COVID) and participation, etc,

However stuff costs money. And without profitability, then many of the necessary reforms - like improving refereeing or junior development can not happen.

I take note of Dave T's comments. But I know compatible top executives in local government or the NHS (where they deal with billions than millions as the RFL does) would not have such lavish pay outs, especially when those entitled left with such a mixed record.

The issue I feel is that RL lacks honest transparency that helps to mask accountability. This cloudiness can seemingly allow for a self serving elitism that is entitled, rigged and short termist.

So whilst PRP or by results might help, unless accountability is bettered, then the terms will led to the same Fat Cats situation without any service delivery  improvement. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by idrewthehaggis

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

It is worth noting that profitability is not the sole purpose of the RFL. Its KPIs includes organization of the Game (which it succeeded okish during COVID) and participation, etc,

However stuff costs money. And without profitability, then many of the necessary reforms - like improving refereeing or junior development can not happen.

I take note of Dave T's comments. But I know compatible top executives in local government or the NHS (where they deal with billions than millions as the RFL does) would not have such lavish pay outs, especially when those entitled left with such a mixed record.

The issue I feel is that RL lacks honest transparency that helps to mask accountability. This cloudiness can seemingly allow for a self serving elitism that is entitled, rigged and short termist.

So whilst PRP or by results might help, unless accountability is bettered, then the terms will led to the same Fat Cats situation without any service delivery  improvement. 

Let's face it the RFL is not a big organisation and it seems way too top heavy with executive renumeration out of kilter with its size. I see zero evidence of the value being added and  I am not convinced the current executive structure adds anything other than bloated costs the sport cannot afford.

[dkw]

The likelihood is it could have cost significantly more to sack him and go through a court case than just pay him off, and that ignores the negative news for the sport that would also have created.

[Pulga]

It's interesting that the CEOs are hired, don't do anything, get a payout then secure a new great job somewhere else.

I'm thinking maybe the RFL structure might be the problem. It seems to need a complete clear-out.

[sweaty craiq]

45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The only way they could have sacked Rimmer would have been around any misconduct charge for his Fiji comments. But that's a slightly separate issue. 

He wasn't sacked, he was let go, which comes with a payoff. It's quite standard stuff. 

You can't just sack people because you fancy getting somebody else in. 

What action was taken then? I have seen folk sacked for less, or a compromise reached on lower than contract terms for a sharp exit and a brush under.

[Dave T]

52 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

What action was taken then? I have seen folk sacked for less, or a compromise reached on lower than contract terms for a sharp exit and a brush under.

I'm not too interested in defending Rimmer's comments, I don't like his style and I'm happy he's been moved on, but I'm not sure I would like to have seen him sacked for gross misconduct based on those comments. 

I think it had already been decided to move him on and that will already have been in process. 

[Dave T]

I think it is far too simplistic to just keep stating that all of our exec are useless and should be sacked every year. 

The RFL does a lot of good stuff in very difficult circumstances imho. 

They also do plenty of things that I hate, but that doesn't necessarily mean wrong. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

Unless he was fired - why is he getting any payoff?

He also walked into a top job at the RFU.

I have worked at the same frim for 27 years but wouldn't expect a pay off if I left - not in the slightest. But when it's someone else's money it is always easy to throw it about.

He was moved on, it is clear he didn't resign. 

I certainly wouldn't be leaving my firm without a payoff. 

[The Future is League]

7 hours ago, Dave T said:

Performance related pay would just mean huge bonuses. It wouldn't mean we'd get people on low pay, that's not how the world works. 

If that was the case Rimmer and Elstone wouldn't have got a penny

Edited July 28, 2023 by The Future is League

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

If that was the case Rimmer and Elstone wouldn't have got a penny

They would have had their core salary. 

Nobody is working for commission only. 

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

They would have had their core salary. 

Nobody is working for commission only. 

They certainly shouldn't have had any compensation pay for their inept performances

[Dave T]

52 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

They certainly shouldn't have had any compensation pay for their inept performances

It's all just nonsense though. RL fans often just sound rather silly calling to not pay people, which is absolutely bizarre based on RL's roots. 

If we left it to some RL fans no administrator would ever have been paid. Maybe we need to look at whether they really are the problem. 

[The Future is League]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

It's all just nonsense though. RL fans often just sound rather silly calling to not pay people, which is absolutely bizarre based on RL's roots. 

If we left it to some RL fans no administrator would ever have been paid. Maybe we need to look at whether they really are the problem. 

If they was paid on PRP Rimmer and Elstone wouldn't have got a penny

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

If they was paid on PRP Rimmer and Elstone wouldn't have got a penny

Nobody works for free. This is toddler level stuff. 

[idrewthehaggis]

In the academic study of history, there is the self explanatory "Great Man" method of describing the narrative.

It emphasizes the role of leadership-Kings, Prophets, writers or politicians- on what happens and why, born of the machinations of the hierarchy.

Are we here over playing the impact of Rimmer et al? When maybe The RFL structure is at fault?

Edited July 29, 2023 by idrewthehaggis

[OnStrike]

5 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

In the academic study of history, there is the self explanatory "Great Man" method of describing the narrative.

It emphasizes the role of leadership-Kings, Prophets, writers or politicians- on what happens and why, born of the machinations of the hierarchy.

Are we here over playing the impact of Rimmer et al? When maybe The RFL structure is at fault?

There is something to that but I'd say it goes further than the RFL's structure and broaden it to the class forces at play in sport and society more widely. 

[koli]

On 28/07/2023 at 09:45, Leonard said:

Unless he was fired - why is he getting any payoff?

He also walked into a top job at the RFU.

I have worked at the same frim for 27 years but wouldn't expect a pay off if I left - not in the slightest. But when it's someone else's money it is always easy to throw it about.

 

[koli]

Spot on.As far as I’m aware no one was sacked or asked to leave and they were leaving of their own accord.