London Skolars

[newbe]

If the RFL step in to help Skolars, then they would have to help most clubs in League 1.

[Griff]

23 minutes ago, newbe said:

If the RFL step in to help Skolars, then they would have to help most clubs in League 1.

Mmmm - West Wales springs to mind, too.

[EssexRL]

1 hour ago, newbe said:

If the RFL step in to help Skolars, then they would have to help most clubs in League 1.

All non heartland teams have not only to build support for their club but also the game itself. RL has zero profile down here. What was needed was some sort of strategy to build the profile of the game and recognition of the extra costs/challenges clubs like Skolars faced.

It doesn't matter now though. RL down here is currently represented by just two semi pro teams and a small band of amateur clubs. Essentially it is resting on the shoulders of a very small number of people.

I struggle to see where a pathway to exploit London as a market is going to come from. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by EssexRL

[Angelic Cynic]

8 hours ago, Cb2 said:

I would say that the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. Are Broncos solely at fault for Skolars demise? Absolutely not. Are they one set of multiple fingerprints that all over this - yes. (I disagree with the Head Coach argument - if you speak to Skolars directors they will tell you Coleman was going to be removed anyway - the players argument is fairly accurate). 

The RFL haven’t helped - Skolars were fined their entire operational funding last year albeit with half suspended for the no doctor Keighley game. As stated before when you add in the £7k overnight away trips - you’re in a deficit very quickly. 

Skolars have had some good seasons - circa 2012 in the current coaches first stint - making the play off semi final. 
 

I am obviously pro Skolars and many would disagree but the RFL should step in with additional funding for the good of the competition in 2024 - keep it as ten teams, give Skolars another year to find investment or a buyer. 2025 is anyone’s guess as to whether League 1 will even exist. 

  I thought IMG were on the job - 

  https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/dec/15/london-img-transform-rugby-league

  The American involvement in the round ball game has certainly changed it.

[Griff]

28 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  I thought IMG were on the job - 

  

IMG will definitely be on to this.

[lucky 7]

On 16/09/2023 at 15:23, Eddie said:

The worst thing is, I can see other L1 non-heartlands clubs leaving the comp over the next few years. Certainly Cornwall if they don’t progress, and maybe Newcastle if they lose their benefactor. Midlands seem to be doing ok and so do North Wales other than their ground issues, so that would leave just two in the whole three divisions.

I'm not sure if Cornwall has to pay visiting teams expenses, but if they do and have to pay their own travelling expenses for games that's a huge dent in their budget.

I can't see any club wanting to join League 1 outside of the heartlands unless the RFL help out with expenses, and i don't think they will do that

[Rowan]

There is not a lot more to be added to what has already been said except that if the RFL (and that means the member clubs) really wanted a club in London they would do something about it. If that means special measures for a period of say three years with a Development/Commercial/Media Officer paid from central funds in charge then give it a go. Otherwise the question is the RFL serious about the game outside the "heartlands".

[lucky 7]

On 17/09/2023 at 06:55, IM2 said:

given the amount of complaining they used to do for having to come to London once a year (versus Skolars did it every other week the other way) maybe they wont worrly. maybe its a case of you didnt know what you had until you lost it

And one home game less which = lost income and more than it would doing a day trip to London.

[Rapscallion]

IMG mentioned London as a focus area, whatever that meant. It was a pretty vague inclusion (as most of what they say is vague) to one of their many releases. In any of the press releases regarding Skolars’ departure from the semi-pro game, the club statement included, I haven’t seen any mention of IMG or seeking assistance via them to source investors. That’s not to say they didn’t have those conversations when they realised the Australian takeover was not happening. 

 

[lucky 7]

5 minutes ago, Rapscallion said:

IMG mentioned London as a focus area, whatever that meant. It was a pretty vague inclusion (as most of what they say is vague) to one of their many releases. In any of the press releases regarding Skolars’ departure from the semi-pro game, the club statement included, I haven’t seen any mention of IMG or seeking assistance via them to source investors. That’s not to say they didn’t have those conversations when they realised the Australian takeover was not happening. 

 

If London just had 1% more school kids playing the game than they do with a population of around 9 million that's a hell of a lot of school kids

[Cb2]

3 hours ago, newbe said:

If the RFL step in to help Skolars, then they would have to help most clubs in League 1.

I mean only Skolars are struggling financially to the point of withdrawing but yes I understand the logic. Would just seem sensible for a year to keep the ‘integrity’ of the comp at 10 teams. As I said I’m sure plenty would disagree with that though. 

[Tre Cool]

10 hours ago, Cb2 said:

I would say that the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. Are Broncos solely at fault for Skolars demise? Absolutely not. Are they one set of multiple fingerprints that all over this - yes. (I disagree with the Head Coach argument - if you speak to Skolars directors they will tell you Coleman was going to be removed anyway - the players argument is fairly accurate). 

The RFL haven’t helped - Skolars were fined their entire operational funding last year albeit with half suspended for the no doctor Keighley game. As stated before when you add in the £7k overnight away trips - you’re in a deficit very quickly. 

Skolars have had some good seasons - circa 2012 in the current coaches first stint - making the play off semi final. 
 

I am obviously pro Skolars and many would disagree but the RFL should step in with additional funding for the good of the competition in 2024 - keep it as ten teams, give Skolars another year to find investment or a buyer. 2025 is anyone’s guess as to whether League 1 will even exist. 

The answer is never that other competing pro clubs shouldn't compete with them. The RFL certainly could and should have done more, especially considering the stadium in north london the Skolars had use of.  It's like gold dust. Equally the Skolars haven't really managed to make a go of it commercially themselves.

[fighting irish]

I'm really upset about the setback to Skolars.

I just throw down the gauntlet to the London League (does it still exist?). Or if not, the Southern Conference to do more.

I don't know what kind of organisation it is but first of all they need to grasp the nettle and accept the challenge of growing the game in their locality.

To draw in more volunteers, find more enthusiasts - would-be coaches, players, referees, canvassers, social media whizz-kids, those with marketing expertise and set some goals.

For goodness sake, stop looking to the RFL to do stuff for you (us).

If some enthusiasts in Nigeria, or Jamaica, or Eastern Europe can do it, surely our brightest and best can manage it? If they'll only take it on.

Where are our cavaliers, our Corinthian spirit, our entrepreneurs.

I just don't believe we don't have our fair share, I just don't.

 

[Rapscallion]

8 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I'm really upset about the setback to Skolars.

I just throw down the gauntlet to the London League (does it still exist?). Or if not, the Southern Conference to do more.

I don't know what kind of organisation it is but first of all they need to grasp the nettle and accept the challenge of growing the game in their locality.

To draw in more volunteers, find more enthusiasts - would-be coaches, players, referees, canvassers, social media whizz-kids, those with marketing expertise and set some goals.

For goodness sake, stop looking to the RFL to do stuff for you (us).

If some enthusiasts in Nigeria, or Jamaica, or Eastern Europe can do it, surely our brightest and best can manage it? If they'll only take it on.

Where are our cavaliers, our Corinthian spirit, our entrepreneurs.

I just don't believe we don't have our fair share, I just don't.

 

I get your point but I do think Skolars should shoulder some of the “blame” here, too. I don’t want to criticise too as I’m sure people worked hard for the club but I do think there were and have been missed opportunities at Skolars. 

I have no idea if the Skolars Lottery is even a thing anymore, I stopped hearing about that years ago. The last few times I’ve been to a game at the New River (over the past couple of years), the club shop was closed and you couldn’t buy any merchandise on matchday. The social media posts become fewer and farther between in the past few years. There’s been almost no attempts at revenue creation from what I have seen on social media or advertised in the online matchday programme, aside from match/player sponsorship. I’ve not seen any posts on social media or on job websites seeking help with social media/corporate sales/sponsorship sales/lottery sellers/retail staff of any kind.

That’s just a few things off the top of my head. 

While I get you saying that people shouldn’t look to The RFL, I’m not sure what the London League or Southern Conference would be expected to do or why they should be looked upon. 

[Londonbornirishbred]

After reading this depressing thread, there's a few things I think are worth noting:
 

When a team from another sport goes to the wall, the Governing body of that sport rarely (if ever)bails them out. That said, when the RFL attempted (badly) to assist Bradford, a great many folk in the game were not best pleased. Therefore I feel that why it is disappointing that the Skolars are stepping down from L1, I believe that the reality is that the game isn't sustainable as a professional venture in the Capital without a centralised plan. Centralised planning isn't really a RL thing though, especially if it involves leaving the M62 Corridor.

The role of the London Broncos and their owner in this demise is significant at best and criminal at worst. The raid the Skolars of their better team members and their coach at such a critical time is unforgivable. Even more disgusting is that once they'd/He'd done it, it became apparent that neither the players nor coach were up to the standard needed and he needed to spend the money he tried to initially save, just as so as to stop there being 2 London clubs in L1 in 2023.

Some have mentioned "geographical" divisions of a 2nd tier, but the reality is the southern Based teams of the remaining 23 sides outside SL are 3 in number, with North Wales almost being level with Sheffield. Cornwall, London and Midlands are it in the south and I very much doubt that any "heartland club" being lumped in with them would be happy about the travelling. What idea I did like was the split of a top 8 Championship playing 28 games and the rest playing each other once home and away. I think that would be 26 games...with 13 home ties in L1 and 14 in The Championship.

IMG? I'm starting to wonder if O-M-G would be a better expression. Tonga are on their way up to you and yet no London game planned, although London is key according to them? Wakefield in all probability being replaced by Featherstone isn't progress unless your a Fev fan. Staying at 12 at the Top and having some pretty vague assessments then allowing/preventing P&R thereafter is a can of worms that will see the internet explode if a side finishes top of the 2nd tier and is refused entry. Remember, when London were elevated and Keighley refused, the internet was in its infancy. Now we're all our own "game callers' on our mobiles and laptops.

Lastly. Back to the London Broncos. 2 posters at least (Tre Cool and Atlantisman) seem to think that The Broncos are doing OK? I'd say to anyone with both eyes open can see that Hughes and his management side have gambled the house on Black in the hope that IMG give them a leg up, but what's happened is they've shed a few thousand fans, rented a stadium that will hold 11 (or 12) times their current average and are on the same spiral transition that The London Skolars were on last year. I get the poster who bemoans the lack of investors in the game, but sometimes be careful what you wish for. Hughes may have ploughed £30,000,000 into the Broncos over the last 14 years, but he's also flushed away the same if not more of central funding and I believe that if the Skolars, with their long suffering owner back then had received that money, they'd be a lot nearer playing St Helens next year instead of Hammersmith Hills Hoists.

 

[Cb2]

14 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

The answer is never that other competing pro clubs shouldn't compete with them. The RFL certainly could and should have done more, especially considering the stadium in north london the Skolars had use of.  It's like gold dust. Equally the Skolars haven't really managed to make a go of it commercially themselves.

Yes and that is a reality of pro sport, however it is a fact that Broncos ripped a nucleus of players out of Skolars leading into 2022 - of which only two who were upto the standard (Macani & Grant) ended up staying between Coleman leaving and Eccles being appointed. 
 

100% Agree on Skolars commercially being negligent over the last few years, poor management of the club. 

[Tre Cool]

17 hours ago, Londonbornirishbred said:

 

The role of the London Broncos and their owner in this demise is significant at best and criminal at worst.  

THIS IS A RIDICULOUS ACCUSATION

Lastly. Back to the London Broncos. 2 posters at least (Tre Cool and Atlantisman) seem to think that The Broncos are doing OK? 

 

THEY ARE DOING OK WHEN COMPARED TO THE EFFORTS OF SKOLARS AND HEMEL (WHO LIKE TO BLAME BRONCOS FOR EVERYTHING AND PRETTY MUCH NEVER GOT OFF THE BOTTOM OF THE THIRD TIER). 
 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Tre Cool

[EssexRL]

10 hours ago, Cb2 said:

100% Agree on Skolars commercially being negligent over the last few years, poor management of the club. 

...because we were no longer sustainable. For most of the last decade the commercial side, frankly, has been incredible in terms of sponsorship and innovations like FNL. What was particularly impressive were the links with local businesses particularly given how few people had heard of the game. However it wasn't enough to meet the extra costs we (and any non heartland club) face(d). It was never going to be enough to raise the profile of RL in London. It was never going to be enough to pay the costs of moving players from the north down here (so we could be competitive) or the extra travel costs we incurred. 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Skolars situation and I am sure the club got things wrong, the real question that needs to be addressed is does the sport have any ambition to grow? It is close to being only played in a small number of towns and cities in parts of the north (I would be less bothered if it was played all over the north but it isn't)? 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by EssexRL

[Rapscallion]

1 hour ago, EssexRL said:

...because we were no longer sustainable. For most of the last decade the commercial side, frankly, has been incredible in terms of sponsorship and innovations like FNL. What was particularly impressive were the links with local businesses particularly given how few people had heard of the game. However it wasn't enough to meet the extra costs we (and any non heartland club) face(d). It was never going to be enough to raise the profile of RL in London. It was never going to be enough to pay the costs of moving players from the north down here (so we could be competitive) or the extra travel costs we incurred. 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Skolars situation and I am sure the club got things wrong, the real question that needs to be addressed is does the sport have any ambition to grow? It is close to being only played in a small number of towns and cities in parts of the north (I would be less bothered if it was played all over the north but it isn't)? 

 

Was the answer to the apparent lack of sustainability to simple not do anything at all? The football team I support (who are part-time I may add), realistically, aren’t going to be much bigger than they are in terms of attendees and with that, sponsorship opportunities, commercial income and the potential to grow is limited. 

Since Covid began a few ventures that have been undertaken have been buying virtual pints and match tickets, watchalongs with current and former staff and players, cardboard cut outs in the stands, opportunities to get your name on a training shirt, junior lotteries, selling of matchworn kit, auctioning off sponsorship of bibs, balls, drinks bottles, the creation of new sponsorship opportunities, sponsoring of social media posts and I’m probably missing a fair few things, too. The point being, we could have wallowed and accepted the fate of the club or we could have tried to fight against the tide. We chose the latter and as a result, attendances have risen slightly (not significantly but enough) and relationships within the community have returned that were previously broken. 

I don’t think Skolars can get out of this without a portion of culpability. Since Hector McNeil left, there seemed to be, at least to me, a real shift at the club and it almost felt like the club was an after thought and that giving up happened a long time ago. I doubt Skolars as a southern club in a part-time league with almost every other side being northern were ever that sustainable but there was fight and what looked like a passion for the club. I felt like that left with McNeil. 

[IM2]

12 hours ago, Cb2 said:

100% Agree on Skolars commercially being negligent over the last few years, poor management of the club. 

what do you base that male genitals on?

[Click]

11 hours ago, IM2 said:

what do you base that male genitals on?

Probably based on the fact they've now had to withdraw from L1. Unless you are suggesting something different?

[The Future is League]

On 20/09/2023 at 00:14, newbe said:

If the RFL step in to help Skolars, then they would have to help most clubs in League 1.

Even if they wanted to they can't as they haven't the money