The law.. What if..?

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, bobbruce said:

It doesn’t specify whether you get the point or not as well there. It does make that clear in the try scoring one though. 

It does in the text underneath.  I was being lazy and didn't copy it.

(b) If the attempt at drop goal is successful, a kick at goal must be taken from the penalty kick and play restarted from the centre of the halfway line irrespective of the outcome of that kick.

(c) If the attempt at drop goal is unsuccessful, the penalty kick can be taken in any manner provided for in the Laws and play re-started according to the outcome of that kick.

[Harry Stottle]

What a daft thread, and we have had some.

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

It does in the text underneath.  I was being lazy and didn't copy it.

(b) If the attempt at drop goal is successful, a kick at goal must be taken from the penalty kick and play restarted from the centre of the halfway line irrespective of the outcome of that kick.

(c) If the attempt at drop goal is unsuccessful, the penalty kick can be taken in any manner provided for in the Laws and play re-started according to the outcome of that kick.

Cheers very strange that not may people have seen one then. 

[bobbruce]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What a daft thread, and we have had some.

I enjoy discussions about the laws of the game and I think most of us have learnt something about potential 3 point drop goals that we didn’t know. 

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Cheers very strange that not may people have seen one then. 

It is.  I guess part of the reason is that a drop goal attempt is pretty much the only kick where the defence concentrates on trying to stop the ball rather than 'attack' the kicker.

By no means the only reason but it will be part of it I expect.

[Griff]

34 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Yeah, I didn't explain that particularly well. Let me break it down. 

What constitutes a drop kick? 

It bounces and is kicked immediately it starts to rise.

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

It states for both the try and the drop kick.

Drop Goal Foul Play on Kicker 10. (a) If a player fouls an opponent who is attempting a drop goal, a penalty kick shall be awarded in front of the goal posts.

Laws of the Game (rugby-league.com)

If the drop goal is successful can you get a 3 point drop goal?

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

If the drop goal is successful can you get a 3 point drop goal?

That's what is says in the text underneath.  Quoted earlier. 

I suppose it is a little ambiguous as it says if the goal is successful then you get the penalty in front.  It doesn't specifically say you get the points for the drop and the penalty but if you do for the try and penalty then surely you do for the drop and the penalty. 

[daz39]

57 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

A drop kick is the only in open play scoring kick I think there used to be a field goal where players could kick a ball that was on the ground through the uprights and score. That doesn’t exist anymore though. 

Correct, Field goals were abolished in 1950, i believe, as players were simply letting the ball fall to the ground from a pass and poising it to try and score.

The term 'field goal' is often incorrectly used to describe a drop goal, though this is more a southern hemisphere thing.

[Dunbar]

20 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Correct, Field goals were abolished in 1950, i believe, as players were simply letting the ball fall to the ground from a pass and poising it to try and score.

The term 'field goal' is often incorrectly used to describe a drop goal, though this is more a southern hemisphere thing.

Reminds me of the hours I spent pouring through the footage of the old games to try and see a field goal or 'speculator'.

I didn’t find one but really enjoyed the footage.

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

That's what is says in the text underneath.  Quoted earlier. 

I suppose it is a little ambiguous as it says if the goal is successful then you get the penalty in front.  It doesn't specifically say you get the points for the drop and the penalty but if you do for the try and penalty then surely you do for the drop and the penalty. 

It’s fairly clear the fact it says you must kick at goal with the penalty if the drop kick is successful. Then restart with a kick off that can only be because the drop goal is counted. 

[Dunbar]

11 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

It’s fairly clear the fact it says you must kick at goal with the penalty if the drop kick is successful. Then restart with a kick off that can only be because the drop goal is counted. 

It is yes, I agree.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

From the international laws of the game.

A drop kick is a kick whereby the ball is dropped from the hands (or hand) and is kicked immediately it rebounds from the ground.

 

2 hours ago, Griff said:

It bounces and is kicked immediately it starts to rise.

Thanks, I've realised I was having a dumb moment and forgot about a drop kick specifically being a ball rebounding off the ground, in which case it is obvious what the intentions of the kick are and thus whether it is an attempt to score or not should the ball pass over the crossbar. Yeah, forget what I was saying earlier in the thread!

[The Hallucinating Goose]

3 hours ago, bobbruce said:

I enjoy discussions about the laws of the game and I think most of us have learnt something about potential 3 point drop goals that we didn’t know. 

Quite right, discussing the laws of the game in depth is very interesting! 

[fighting irish]

3 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Quite right, discussing the laws of the game in depth is very interesting! 

Can someone please define a drop kick or a drop goal in more detail? 

Applying my own brand of logic, surely the ball must be struck with the foot the instant the ball touches the ground???

Any delay in contacting the ball (with the foot) such as waiting for it to rebound before kicking it, would mean it's a blinking knock on?

Dropping the ball onto the ground is a knock on, isn't it? So there can only be a dispensation (classifying it as a drop kick) when the foot strikes the ball at the same instant it touches the ground.

If the foot kicks the ball before it hits the ground, it's a punt. If the ball hits the ground before it's kicked, its a knock on.

Terms like ''as it rebounds'' are too wooly (probably coined by a Yorkshireman?).

Please let's have an unambiguous definition (as per above)? 

Edited September 17, 2023 by fighting irish

[Derwent Parker]

4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

From the international laws of the game.

A drop kick is a kick whereby the ball is dropped from the hands (or hand) and is kicked immediately it rebounds from the ground.

I thought it was as it touched the ground - because a ball that bounces of the ground is a knock on???

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

I thought it was as it touched the ground - because a ball that bounces of the ground is a knock on???

That was copied directly from the international laws of the game.

I agree that simultaneous is what we see.  I think the word immediately in 'immediately it rebounds from the ground' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Immediately rebounding and as it touches the ground are to all intents and purposes the same thing I suppose.

[Derwent Parker]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

That's what is says in the text underneath.  Quoted earlier. 

I suppose it is a little ambiguous as it says if the goal is successful then you get the penalty in front.  It doesn't specifically say you get the points for the drop and the penalty but if you do for the try and penalty then surely you do for the drop and the penalty. 

No

because you have already scored the try when then awarded a penalty for foul play

In a drop goal if it goes over you have already scored the drop and then awarded a penalty for foul play

If you miss, you haven't scored-  so you just get the penalty for foul play.

Reminds me back to 70s when the ref would give another penalty, if missed  if all the players under the sticks didn't stand still when the kick was being taken.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

No

because you have already scored the try when then awarded a penalty for foul play

In a drop goal if it goes over you have already scored the drop and then awarded a penalty for foul play

If you miss, you haven't scored-  so you just get the penalty for foul play.

Reminds me back to 70s when the ref would give another penalty, if missed  if all the players under the sticks didn't stand still when the kick was being taken.

I am juat saying the wording didn't explicitly say that.  I think the law is 100% obvious.

[Griff]

29 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I am juat saying the wording didn't explicitly say that.  I think the law is 100% obvious.

I thought it was clear enough.

So has anyone else seen one? Or heard of one?