Championship Meeting

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

Looks like you're one of very few, Harry.

Very correct Griff, I was one of the few!

[Rovers13]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Very correct Griff, I was one of the few!

You weren’t Harry I despised licensing last time maybe that’s because it wasn’t done properly who knows but it doesn’t get me excited turning up for a dead rubber at all.  

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is there not a breakdown Griff?

e.g. if the published figure to enter the ground was £20 and 1000 came in that would be £20,000 to pay the appropriate amount of tax on but the club says the attendance was 2000 would the inland revenue not say hold on a minute you have let it be known that you charge £20 entrance fee and said that there was 2000 in attendance so you owe us tax on £40,000? 

No, HMRC would just look at the income and tax that, they’re understaffed as it is without them looking at what Bradford Bulls charge for tickets.

[Griff]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Is there not a breakdown Griff?

e.g. if the published figure to enter the ground was £20 and 1000 came in that would be £20,000 to pay the appropriate amount of tax on but the club says the attendance was 2000 would the inland revenue not say hold on a minute you have let it be known that you charge £20 entrance fee and said that there was 2000 in attendance so you owe us tax on £40,000? 

The Inland Revenue were abolished twenty years ago and never dealt with VAT.  I doubt if His Majesty's Revenue and Customs take a copy of the TRL Yearbook to their VAT control visits, nor do I know of any club which charges all the folk in the ground the same price.  You've got kids, concessions, season tickets, sponsors - it's certainly not as straightforward as you imply.

[Archie Gordon]

31 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

You're right there are lots of variables - I don't think it's particularly easy to assign a single reason for variations. That said, I think 2022 was still in the 'recovering from the covid period slump' phase.

2019 (2,645) & 2023 (2,012) might be better indicators of where the Championship currently stands.

 

Edit - Although 2019 was boosted by Toronto (another of those variables!)

 

Down to 1199 in 2013.

Does anyone have the full set of historic average attendances for the Champ?

 

[Griff]

1 minute ago, Rovers13 said:

You weren’t Harry I despised licensing last time maybe that’s because it wasn’t done properly who knows but it doesn’t get me excited turning up for a dead rubber at all.  

Yet there are many dead rubber games in a league programme.  That's the nature of a league.

What you need is Cup games.  No dead rubbers there.   Yet folk say that knock-out competitions are not what they were. Crowds are tumbling.  It's the opposite of what you claim is the reality.

[Griff]

15 minutes ago, dkw said:

But your opening yourself up to a massive problem should the HMRC decide to investigate the difference in income tax compared to the attendances. No club will be doing that, its utter nonsense.

Seriously - I've been there.  They don't.

[Neutralfan7]

Now Thunder come out and say they're " trying to make the start line for 2024 ".... Time for the conspiracy that it was all just a ploy to force the RFL's hand! 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Neutralfan7

[dkw]

4 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

Now Thunder come out and say they're " trying to make the start line for 2024 ".... Time for the conspiracy that it was all just a ploy to force the RFL's hand! 

Only if you're a moron.

[Neutralfan7]

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

Only if you're a moron.

My god, get a sense of humour. Bet you're a right laugh at parties.

[dkw]

9 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

My god, get a sense of humour. Bet you're a right laugh at parties.

Yeah hilarious stuff, just as funny as when you're club was in a precarious position, you were a laugh a minute then. Daft hypocrite.

[Rovers13]

36 minutes ago, Griff said:

Yet there are many dead rubber games in a league programme.  That's the nature of a league.

What you need is Cup games.  No dead rubbers there.   Yet folk say that knock-out competitions are not what they were. Crowds are tumbling.  It's the opposite of what you claim is the reality.

That is true as well, but cup comps massively favour SL clubs unless it’s the 85 cup which there is no money in it. I have always liked the CC because of upsets but those days are long gone now barring the odd one now and again. 

[Neutralfan7]

31 minutes ago, dkw said:

Yeah hilarious stuff, just as funny as when you're club was in a precarious position, you were a laugh a minute then. Daft hypocrite.

Your*

[Griff]

40 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

That is true as well, but cup comps massively favour SL clubs unless it’s the 85 cup which there is no money in it. I have always liked the CC because of upsets but those days are long gone now barring the odd one now and again. 

Plenty of games don't have SL sides in them.  Are they well attended ?  In your opinion ?

[Ackroman]

4 hours ago, crashmon said:

This is a great idea.....

It does make the lower leagues relevant to SL. However dual reg and the loan system needs consideration too. 

[Rovers13]

7 minutes ago, Griff said:

Plenty of games don't have SL sides in them.  Are they well attended ?  In your opinion ?

Tbf depends what you mean by well attended, imo no the crowds are very poor especially for city clubs like yourself. If you’re asking based on money we receive or how big our sport is compared to other major sports then maybe but even then the crowds ain’t ripping up trees. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Rovers13

[dkw]

31 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

It does make the lower leagues relevant to SL. However dual reg and the loan system needs consideration too. 

Yeah thats the worry I have, it could become very messy where DR and loan's with SL clubs come in.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

What are the average attendances from 2016 onwards?

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/308662-championship-league-1-attendances/

2016: 1,631

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/2019/04/uk-championship-attendances-2019.html

2017: 2,027

2018: 1,805

2019: 2,415

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

The Inland Revenue were abolished twenty years ago and never dealt with VAT.  I doubt if His Majesty's Revenue and Customs take a copy of the TRL Yearbook to their VAT control visits, nor do I know of any club which charges all the folk in the ground the same price.  You've got kids, concessions, season tickets, sponsors - it's certainly not as straightforward as you imply.

You do know what e.g. means don't you?

Either you must consider me thick, or you ................., of course who doesn't know there are multiple pricing factors for admission to sporting venues.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You do know what e.g. means don't you?

Either you must consider me thick, or you ................., of course who doesn't know there are multiple pricing factors for admission to sporting venues.

So you know there are multiple price points for entry, how do you expect HMRC to just do a simple calculation?

its moot anyway as there is a much simpler way to check if they are giving false records as people have said, they legally have to give correct attendance figures for H&S reasons.

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

Down to 1199 in 2013.

Does anyone have the full set of historic average attendances for the Champ?

 

Ooooh! That could make a lovely long thread to keep us all occupied until 2024.

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

What are the average attendances from 2016 onwards?

You can start here if you really want to drill down: Games by Season - Rugby League RKC (rugbyleaguerecords.com)

[Derwent Parker]

2 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

That is true as well, but cup comps massively favour SL clubs unless it’s the 85 cup which there is no money in it. I have always liked the CC because of upsets but those days are long gone now barring the odd one now and again. 

No upsets anymore as the elite 12 dont come in till very last minute.

All pro/semi pro should be in at last 32 like it used to be.

Just like back in 88/89 season where by coincidence had the same amount of teams as we have now.

There was a prelim round  "Where every team was in bag" 

Leeds and Trinity were in prelim as well as 6 div2 and 4 community sides.

There's plenty of L1 sides and community sides would love to be drawn away at Leeds/Wigan etc - The half gate would be worth a thumping.

Dont know what half gate at Leeds is - but i bet its more than the 15k CF that the L1 would get.

But it wont happen as this system ensures no-one can get near that opportunity.

[Colin James]

4 hours ago, Neutralfan7 said:

Now Thunder come out and say they're " trying to make the start line for 2024 ".... Time for the conspiracy that it was all just a ploy to force the RFL's hand! 

There will be some chairmen desperately hoping that doesn't happen.

[Jimmy B]

4 hours ago, Griff said:

Seriously - I've been there.  They don't.

Mmm  - Do Sheffield still only publish “estimated” crowd figures Richard ?
serious question I haven’t looked for years.