Why RL in the UK struggles.

[frank]

In a nutshell the game is too slow. There is no intensity in the game, watching UK league after  the NRL is like watching a game at half pace. I think players in the RL are quite capable of matching it with the Aussies, they just need coaches that can put some fire under them and speed up the game. No future in signing second rate Aussies or those over the hill they just adapt to the pace of the UK game..

[Gomersall]

1 minute ago, frank said:

In a nutshell the game is too slow. There is no intensity in the game, watching UK league after  the NRL is like watching a game at half pace. I think players in the RL are quite capable of matching it with the Aussies, they just need coaches that can put some fire under them and speed up the game. No future in signing second rate Aussies or those over the hill they just adapt to the pace of the UK game..

Whilst I don’t disagree Frank the only Aussies available are generally not good enough to make a fist of the NRL or are at the end of their careers. The NRL is where the money is for players and coaches. Nothing is going to change for the better any time soon IMO. We’ll get Aussies who are, IMO, taking up places that young British players should be taking. I can ultimately see a slow downward spiral of quality as even any half decent salaries in the SL are eaten up by inflation and ever poorer TV deals unless something changes drastically and soon.

[Archie Gordon]

We do suffer by comparison to the NRL. The answer is not to dilute quality further by moving to a 14-team SL - a top 10 for me.

I also think we suffer by having every blooming game under lights on Thursday/Friday night. It's poor for creating a weekend narrative and, often, the lights aren't up to it for TV consumption. The Saturday games in daylight are a nice relief.

[Mark S]

It could be a grass roots issue. In the UK, when we play any sport as a kid it’s just about giving it to the big lad (usually the lad who hit puberty at 9). It might win games but it doesn’t teach kids how to win through developing skills. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Mark S

[Damien]

This has been an issue for 40 years, it's not new. There were reports in the early 1990s highlighting this and the differences in key facets of the game where we lag behind. Solving it is a different matter altogether.

[Damien]

16 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

We do suffer by comparison to the NRL. The answer is not to dilute quality further by moving to a 14-team SL - a top 10 for me.

Ah this old chestnut. Going from 14 teams to 12 did not improve quality one bit. Neither will going from 12 to 10.

[gingerjon]

37 minutes ago, frank said:

In a nutshell the game is too slow. There is no intensity in the game, watching UK league after  the NRL is like watching a game at half pace. I think players in the RL are quite capable of matching it with the Aussies, they just need coaches that can put some fire under them and speed up the game. No future in signing second rate Aussies or those over the hill they just adapt to the pace of the UK game..

Yeah, none of that is the reason RL is struggling in the UK.

[Archie Gordon]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Ah this old chestnut. Going from 14 teams to 12 did not improve quality one bit. Neither will going from 12 to 10.

Ceteris paribus, it literally can't fail to improve quality.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Archie Gordon

[The Masked Poster]

1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

Ceteris paribus, it literally can't fail to it.

Oh it definitely can. Somebody still has to finish bottom, even in a 10 team division and you will get a few whipping boys. What then? 9 teams? 8? 

[Archie Gordon]

Just now, The Masked Poster said:

Oh it definitely can. Somebody still has to finish bottom, even in a 10 team division and you will get a few whipping boys. What then? 9 teams? 8? 

That's a logic fail on your part. I am not advocating no-one finishing bottom. 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Ceteris paribus, it literally can't fail to it.

It's far more complicated than these types of simplistic solution. That is why 14 to 12 failed. Removing teams has been shown to not increase the quality or intensity of the rest. A poor 1 v 7 or 4 v 6 game is still a poor game. 

Out of the solutions needed it's not even in the top 10, as you said, and fails to address anything.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Damien

[The Masked Poster]

6 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

That's a logic fail on your part. I am not advocating no-one finishing bottom. 

But someone always will, so how about we remove them to ensure better quality games and a more competitive division? This is where your logic leads to. 

[Bearman]

The Australians have got the right product and have done brilliantly to get it to the position they are in.

They were very fortunate that they started as a big player in their market whilst RL was massively overshadowed economically by soccer and culturally by RU.

In this country conservatism with a small "c" has stifled RL. When big decisions were needed and radicalism was required. Reactionary push back was and is still being applied. Maurice Lyndsay's big plan was a perfect example of that. Fans were concerned that they would lose THEIR clubs quickly. The opposite has occurred. The fans have lost THEIR clubs slowly.

In Australia clubs were merged or just pushed out of the way ruthlessly. The game has ended up much more dynamic and  more fit for purpose.

The NRL could give the RFL a lot of tips and even transform the product BUT, truth to be told we quite like looking as traject martyrs dying by a thousand cuts.

 

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, frank said:

In a nutshell the game is too slow. There is no intensity in the game, watching UK league after  the NRL is like watching a game at half pace. I think players in the RL are quite capable of matching it with the Aussies, they just need coaches that can put some fire under them and speed up the game. No future in signing second rate Aussies or those over the hill they just adapt to the pace of the UK game..

Don’t agree with this, As an Aussie who watches NRL and SL. Firstly the game isn’t that much quicker I’ve watched plenty of SL games quicker then NRL games and vice versa. The NRL tends to be quicker on average but pace does not mean better quality games. I agree, The NRL is probably on average a higher standard but people discredit the super league too much. Both leagues are lot more equal then many people think, Which is pretty crazy when you realise the NRL has over double the salary cap of the SL. 

I would rate the difference between the two leagues about the same as the difference between the Premier League as the NRL and the Serie A as SL.

Edited October 6, 2023 by NRLandSL

[sam4731]

It's the mindset that we have. Australia grows the game by clear strategy, planning and putting strong foundations in place over a number of years. We grow the game by plonking a team outside of the M62 corridor in September expecting it to start completing in February and then look at each other with confused expressions when it inevitably fails.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

We grow the game by plonking a team outside of the M62 corridor in September expecting it to start completing in February and then look at each other with confused expressions when it inevitably fails.

Do we?

Is this a regular thing?

[sam4731]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Do we?

Is this a regular thing?

Toronto, PSG, Crusaders, Gateshead, Sheffield (Original) etc

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Toronto, PSG, Crusaders, Gateshead, Sheffield (Original) etc

They were all set up in September and expected to play in February?

[Archie Gordon]

56 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's far more complicated than these types of simplistic solution. 

Wholeheartedly agree.

[LINNERS]

The reason it struggles is because it is a minority sport here. Every body wants to play football. In Australia rugby is the dominant force. Don't think you need to over analyse it to understand that. The player pool is shrinking year or year whereas other sports are growing, so the standard is unlikely to get any better anytime soon, especially with all the noises around player safety.

[Tommygilf]

The on field here has never been the issue. Only RL nuts are aware of the NRL, our closest visible competitor, international Union, has a far inferior on field product (but a greater off field presence and atmosphere).

[Archie Gordon]

23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

...

Only RL nuts are aware of the NRL, 

...

I think there's a difference here between the heartlands and the non-heartlands.

I'm located firmly in the latter and here the NRL is definitely something that rugby folk are aware of. At my community club, the point at which you know a player has fully bought in to RL is when they turn up to training in an NRL or Origin top - nobody appears newly kitted out in a Wigan shirt. The players and dads talk about the NRL way more than Super League - Reece Walsh is a name, Jack Welsby isn't. Even at the football club my son plays at, other dads ask me about the NRL when I bring up rugby league. SL is genuinely a non-topic and I imagine it's partly to do with the way that the NRL has managed to squeeze into more people's social media (a reason why we brought IMG in, presumably).

Further evidence: I want to buy some discounted NRL gear now that the season has finished. The places to buy online all seem to be RU shops that have an NRL section but not a SL section. I wonder why? (I don't wonder why).

It is likely very different in the heartlands but, as I say, NRL easily trumps SL for interest among 'rugby' people down South.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

The on field here has never been the issue. Only RL nuts are aware of the NRL, our closest visible competitor, international Union, has a far inferior on field product (but a greater off field presence and atmosphere).

I dont think that is necessarily the case in the UK. I know a very decent number of RU folk who love the NRL and think it is the best Rugby competition in the world. They rave about SOO and record all the games on Sky, they are certainly not general RL fans, players or from RL backgrounds either. They also think SL is poor in comparison and don't really watch it.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Damien

[Tre Cool]

3 hours ago, frank said:

In a nutshell the game is too slow. There is no intensity in the game, watching UK league after  the NRL is like watching a game at half pace. I think players in the RL are quite capable of matching it with the Aussies, they just need coaches that can put some fire under them and speed up the game. No future in signing second rate Aussies or those over the hill they just adapt to the pace of the UK game..

No, don't agree at all.  Crowds are up significantly this year, it's been a really competitive season on the pitch, the quality has been very good too.  We are clearly not at NRL level - financially or quality.  But that's not holding the game back.  We're competing with sports in this country that are far far slower and less exciting than Super League.  It's not a factor.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Tre Cool

[Gomersall]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Do we?

Is this a regular thing?

By we I assume sam means the RFL. The RFL doesn’t have a clearly defined expansion policy. Any clubs plonked outside of the M62 corridor are there because their owners offered to do it and fund it and the RFL allowed them in. I totally agree with the sink or swim analogy.