What do SL execs think about Catalan making OT

[whatmichaelsays]

4 hours ago, Phil W said:

I suspect that they'll only care about the money side of things.

I'm not going to say I know a lot about these things. But if it's a case that clubs are relying on ticket sales for internationals and the grand final then they should be fuming with RFL Commercial.

As a sport we shouldn't be relying on who the finalists are too have a massive impact on attendance. Other than football major finals the likes of cricket and rugby union finals are made up of a lot of neutrals going for a day out. 

Does RFL Commercial do enough to attract neutrals through clubs? My guess is no. I bought tickets for the World Cup last year and can't remember seeing anything about tickets for the internationals, so where casual sports fans bought tickets for that are we using the customer database to engage with fans who bought tickets?

There doesn't seem to be any joined up thinking. Finally sometimes with major events now the focus is less on the sport on the pitch but the entertainment factor around the event as a whole. What's the fan experience like? Who's the big act playing? Get these things out months in advance! If Sam Fender played at Magic Weekend in Newcastle straight away you create more ticket sales and not from rugby league fans.

The other thing is should the clubs be relying on these big games selling out? Maybe anything extra made gets put into grassroots etc. 

100%

If the business model for RL is reliant on two of Leeds, St Helens, Warrington, Hull and Wigan getting to Old Trafford, then the business model is no more sound that Peter Risdale's at Leeds United. 

The Grand Final should be a FOMO event, irrespective of the competing sides, and sold as such throughout the year. That's not an unfair expectation to place on the RL commercial department. 

[The Masked Poster]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I doubt they'd lend you any either 

This will probably go down a rabbit hole but 

I assume you've set up and run successful businesses? , been involved in running a pro club ? 

What on earth has that got to do with it? Do I need to be a doctor to know my leg is broken? 

But since you mention it, what does it matter? I could make a real pigs ear of promoting RL and I’d still get your backing, so I couldn’t really fail. 

[whatmichaelsays]

27 minutes ago, binosh said:

There will always be the counter argument surrounding the benefit of their inclusion in the English game, IF they had brought any TV deal to the table with any reasonable money to throw into the pot then it would be a no brainer, but they have had since 2006 and we are still no closer to that materialising even though Toulouse have been there or there abouts for 5 years. If they did miraculously negotiate a TV deal would they even be willing to throw it in the pot?

Why are Catalans responsible for negotiating a TV deal? That's what the SLE / the RFL has a commercial department for. 

Whilst we're at it, why not make Salford responsible for negotiating with the BBC (seeing as they're nearest to Media City), Leeds responsible for negotiating with C4, put Castleford in charge of sponsorship, and Wigan in charge of getting the pizzas in? 

 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

There is nothing to stop anybody following the Dragons at their matches in the UK , but hardly any do , it's just not part of the UK sports culture 

When Leigh played Catalan in the MPG at the LSV in '17, these pages were awash with well wishers for Catalan even saying if they lose they should not be relegated, so you would have thought there would have been a good representation of fans from other clubs at the ground supporting and cheering them on wouldn't you, NO, the sentiment stopped as soon as those well wishers realised that they would have to put their hand in their pocket to get along and support them, this is RL in a nutshell half can't be bothered no matter how much they complain and the other half in all probability cant afford it.

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

What on earth has that got to do with it? Do I need to be a doctor to know my leg is broken? 

But since you mention it, what does it matter? I could make a real pigs ear of promoting RL and I’d still get your backing, so I couldn’t really fail. 

You need to be a doctor to know how to fix it , woosh

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

What on earth has that got to do with it? Do I need to be a doctor to know my leg is broken? 

But since you mention it, what does it matter? I could make a real pigs ear of promoting RL and I’d still get your backing, so I couldn’t really fail. 

I'm not ' backing ' anybody , but I do realise how hard a job it is 

[Dunbar]

14 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I doubt they'd lend you any either 

This will probably go down a rabbit hole but 

I assume you've set up and run successful businesses? , been involved in running a pro club ? 

As Jim Hacker would say, one has pledged oneself to the service of ones country and if ones colleagues persuaded one that that was the best way one could serve, one might reluctantly have to accept the responsibility, whatever ones own private wishes might be.

[The Masked Poster]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

I'm not ' backing ' anybody , but I do realise how hard a job it is 

And yet, other sports manage it. Strange 

[The Masked Poster]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

You need to be a doctor to know how to fix it , woosh

And if the doctor doesn’t fix it, do you simply say “well it’s a hard job, I couldn’t have done any better, so fairs fair”? Or do you expect them to do their job to a reasonable, competent level? 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

When Leigh played Catalan in the MPG at the LSV in '17, these pages were awash with well wishers for Catalan even saying if they lose they should not be relegated, so you would have thought there would have been a good representation of fans from other clubs at the ground supporting and cheering them on wouldn't you, NO, the sentiment stopped as soon as those well wishers realised that they would have to put their hand in their pocket to get along and support them, this is RL in a nutshell half can't be bothered no matter how much they complain and the other half in all probability cant afford it.

Indeed Harry 

This season we ( a group of regular Leopard fans who travel by coach ) hoped to attend the Batley v Fax game until we realised it was right in the middle of our 6 week run of away games including cup quarters ,semi and final , we planned it because we enjoy going to the Mount and a game without the nervous energy of following ' your ' team would be fun , we will be going next season as it will be arranged right at the start of the season , I'll even ask Dez if he wants to come as he was planning on coming with us on the coach 

So yes you'd think there'd be thousands of Dragon fans from these pages at OT supporting them as they do on here ?

[binosh]

19 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Why are Catalans responsible for negotiating a TV deal? That's what the SLE / the RFL has a commercial department for. 

Whilst we're at it, why not make Salford responsible for negotiating with the BBC (seeing as they're nearest to Media City), Leeds responsible for negotiating with C4, put Castleford in charge of sponsorship, and Wigan in charge of getting the pizzas in? 

 

The English clubs don’t need to, they were part of the group that negotiated with Sky Sports in 1996, Catalans were invited to participate in SL in 2006 with the plan of attracting a French broadcaster to pay for the rights (amongst other things)this has never materialised.

Edited October 7, 2023 by binosh

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

For me nothing. A uk based supporters club would end up benefiting uk based clubs more than Catalans themselves. Better they concentrate efforts closer to home. 

Haven't we already established how good Catalan are for Catalan Spidey? The point in question as raised by the OP is there a concern that a French team contesting the GF not be very good for the RL commercially.

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

And yet, other sports manage it. Strange 

Yes they do , the difference is they tend to have money already , they also tend to have spread around the world decades if not centuries ago when we were using all our money to pay the players , while they used it to grow their sport 

We are starting behind everybody else , with little to no help from the established systems in place , it isn't easy 

[GUBRATS]

14 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

And if the doctor doesn’t fix it, do you simply say “well it’s a hard job, I couldn’t have done any better, so fairs fair”? Or do you expect them to do their job to a reasonable, competent level? 

So tell me , where is this college, university,training facility that shows you exactly how to grow a sport in competition against already established others with little to no money ? 

[The Masked Poster]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Yes they do , the difference is they tend to have money already , they also tend to have spread around the world decades if not centuries ago when we were using all our money to pay the players , while they used it to grow their sport 

We are starting behind everybody else , with little to no help from the established systems in place , it isn't easy 

We were ahead of club RU not so long ago and the GF attendances were going up every year, starting from 43k or so for Leeds/Wigan in 98 to full houses in the 00’s. 

It’s not true to say we are starting behind everyone else either, despite all its hindrances like the RU ban, it had quite a few advantages like being regularly on prime time BBC, when TV attracted big audiences and had famous clubs like Hull KR and Wigan. It just was happy to keep mining the same seam, which is now running dry. 

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

It is what it is, but we're so cash strapped that it does seem that some clubs have already factored in that extra cash distribution, however small. We need to make sure clubs view any such distribution as an extra, rather than a given, as it really does depend on who makes finals, as this year's CCF (with two English teams) also shows.

You do realise that this next year the distribution in SL could be as much as £800k shy per club of what it was just 6 years ago, and obviously that has a knock on effect the further down the league structure we go.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[gingerjon]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's naive to expect 15k fans from elsewhere to just be attracted and turn up. In reality, many many fans just aren't interested in spending decent money and time on a neutral game. There are of course thousands who are interested, and they will be going if they can. 

But if the gate receipts are down by say, a quarter of a million after all costs then it's really a modest amount between 12 clubs. The financial impact is being overstated, I suspect by people with agendas. 

It’s a financial impact on the RFL not the clubs.

[The Masked Poster]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So tell me , where is this college, university,training facility that shows you exactly how to grow a sport in competition against already established others with little to no money ? 

Grow? We’re talking about an event that has been in place 25 years now. It’s not about growing the game in this instance but failing to maintain the standards that were already there. 
 

The brutal truth is that the Rugby League GF, in a major northern town within reasonable reach of many RL fans, both dedicated or casual, should be full every year. Nit picking at the partaking sides is taking away from the point that the sides should be almost irrelevant. 
 

Edited October 7, 2023 by The Masked Poster

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

We were ahead of club RU not so long ago and the GF attendances were going up every year, starting from 43k or so for Leeds/Wigan in 98 to full houses in the 00’s. 

It’s not true to say we are starting behind everyone else either, despite all its hindrances like the RU ban, it had quite a few advantages like being regularly on prime time BBC, when TV attracted big audiences and had famous clubs like Hull KR and Wigan. It just was happy to keep mining the same seam, which is now running dry. 

And RU had internationals on prime time BBC which made the sport huge amounts of money which was reinvested in expansion , I traveled through the US in 1975 on my way to NZ , on that plane to LA was a Union team going on tour around the west coast 

A school mate of mine went to Leeds uni in 1978 , and wanted to join the Rugby League team , there wasn't one so they joined the Union team instead , that person was the first captain of the Great Britain and England Women's RU team , , most of our mistakes were made decades ago , as I said when we were using all our money paying the players 

Anyway , work to do , so I'm done on here for now 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Grow? We’re talking about an event that has been in place 25 years now. It’s not about growing the game in this instance but failing to maintain the standards that were already there. 
 

The brutal truth is that the Rugby League GF, in a major northern town within reasonable reach of many RL fans, both dedicated or casual, should be full every year. Nit picking at the partaking sides is taking away from the point that the sides should be almost irrelevant. 
 

Why ' should ' it be ? , nothing ' should ' happen , done 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Trying to blame Catalans for the RFL being heavily dependent on the right teams getting to the SL and Challenge Cup final completely misses the real problems. Proceeds from these events beyond a certain base level should be cream on the top, not core parts of revenue.

The failure of the RFL when it comes to generating revenue, in particular through the international game and sponsorship, leads us to this situation. They are even making a complete ballsup of the Tonga series, when they do finally show a bit of initiative, because they are paralysed and hamstrung by their failings, meaning they are scared to make the correct decisins and are scared to speculate to accumulate.

Totally agree, how do you suggest they accomplish it.

It is like the question how does an automatic car work, and the answer comes back as automatically, but there are so many parts to perform properly for the end product to function correctly.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

When Leigh played Catalan in the MPG at the LSV in '17, these pages were awash with well wishers for Catalan even saying if they lose they should not be relegated, so you would have thought there would have been a good representation of fans from other clubs at the ground supporting and cheering them on wouldn't you, NO, the sentiment stopped as soon as those well wishers realised that they would have to put their hand in their pocket to get along and support them, this is RL in a nutshell half can't be bothered no matter how much they complain and the other half in all probability cant afford it.

No doubt come next Saturday  night, there will be many on here who didn't attend the Grand Final bemoaning the fact that others didn't attend the Grand Final.

[Toby Chopra]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You do realise that this next year the distribution in SL could be as much as £800k shy per club of what it was just 6 years ago, and obviously that has a knock on effect the further diwnvtge league structure we go.

Sure, it's a terrible state of affairs. But 90%  of that decline has long been known and predictable and is due to the shrinking TV deal. Any additional shortfall due to low crowds at the CCF and GF is something that clubs should know is possible and they shouldn't commit the money before it's confirmed. That's just sound business. 

[gingerjon]

37 minutes ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

No doubt come next Saturday  night, there will be many on here who didn't attend the Grand Final bemoaning the fact that others didn't attend the Grand Final.

As ever, I'll not be criticising people for not attending. That's entirely their choice.

I will be criticising the RFL for not doing enough to make more people want to attend.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

It’s a financial impact on the RFL not the clubs.

True, though the up to £1.5mill hole in the finances will be passed on to clubs one way or another.