WC 10 Teams, structure going bad

[Griff]

3 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

This for me needs to happen with our national game not just internationals. Take games to places we haven’t been to yet, maybe magic weekend instead of all in one place spread the games out like say one in Bristol one in Cornwall etc etc, yes it will cost money to take games on the road but for me to nationalise the game you need to try new things like this, yes it could fail of course but we need to be reactionary and just try things instead of just going with the it won’t work no point strategy that we’ve been doing for years. 

We took the World Cup around the country in 2000 and got roundly criticised for it.

(Guessing "reactionary" wasn't the word you were seeking - "proactive", perhaps?)

[Rovers13]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

We took the World Cup around the country in 2000 and got roundly criticised for it.

(Guessing "reactionary" wasn't the word you were seeking - "proactive", perhaps?)

Yeah I remember the criticism too, but not just RFL but fans too don’t like change we’re stuck in our ways. 

[Griff]

4 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

Yeah I remember the criticism too, but not just RFL but fans too don’t like change we’re stuck in our ways. 

Exactly.  Folk outside the traditional areas won't change their ways and go to games on their doorsteps.

[Big Picture]

14 minutes ago, Griff said:

Exactly.  Folk outside the traditional areas won't change their ways and go to games on their doorsteps.

They would given the right product, marketing and promotion. The success of the NFL's London series demonstrates that.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

15 minutes ago, Griff said:

Exactly.  Folk outside the traditional areas won't change their ways and go to games on their doorsteps.

Based on many of the attendances in the 2021(22) World Cup, it seems as though folk inside the traditional areas won't go to games on their doorsteps either. 

[Griff]

9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

They would given the right product, marketing and promotion. The success of the NFL's London series demonstrates that.

I like your optimism.

[crashmon]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

Exactly.  Folk outside the traditional areas won't change their ways and go to games on their doorsteps.

I was in the sell out Crowd in Bristol for the game between the might of the Cook Islands vs the USA.  PLace was heaving..... So something must have happened to get the people of Bristol (those die in the wool League supporters since 1896) to attend

[Griff]

3 hours ago, crashmon said:

I was in the sell out Crowd in Bristol for the game between the might of the Cook Islands vs the USA.  PLace was heaving..... So something must have happened to get the people of Bristol (those die in the wool League supporters since 1896) to attend

Would you recommend that the former West Wales Raiders re-form, locating themselves at Bristol?

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, Griff said:

We took the World Cup around the country in 2000 and got roundly criticised for it.

Doing something badly a quarter of a century ago isn't a reason for not doing something well now.

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Doing something badly a quarter of a century ago isn't a reason for not doing something well now.

Such as?

[crashmon]

10 hours ago, Griff said:

Would you recommend that the former West Wales Raiders re-form, locating themselves at Bristol?

No, the All golds was the local team, and they went back to semi-pro

Those area's not ready for club RL outside the amateur game.

But this Thread is about staging international games in major tournaments.  The last WC held in England where we staged games outside the M62 (2013) was a big success.  The M62 WC in 2022 did ok, but did not hit the heights of 2013.

[crashmon]

Right now I would not form any new clubs for L1 until we know exactly from IMG what the future would be for a new club entering L1

[Gomersall]

31 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Right now I would not form any new clubs for L1 until we know exactly from IMG what the future would be for a new club entering L1

These L1 clubs you speak of aren’t formed in a thoughtful calculated manner by the RFL. They are formed by a wealthy benefactor setting up a club or a well run amateur club taking the plunge into semi professionalism. The RFL then allow them entry and then wash their hands of any responsibility. Who in their right mind would enter a club in L1 under the current circumstances? 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

26 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

These L1 clubs you speak of aren’t formed in a thoughtful calculated manner by the RFL. They are formed by a wealthy benefactor setting up a club or a well run amateur club taking the plunge into semi professionalism. The RFL then allow them entry and then wash their hands of any responsibility. Who in their right mind would enter a club in L1 under the current circumstances? 

The RFL's 'pins in map' expansion strategy from 10 years ago has proved to be an abject failure.

[Pulga]

On 10/10/2023 at 06:22, Damien said:

The reduction to 10 teams isn't even about cost anyway.

Wait, what?

What do you think it's about?

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Wait, what?

What do you think it's about?

Control of the international game, ease of hosting and just plain old apathy. A 10 team World Cup featuring 7 Southern hemisphere teams, with the majority largely heritage teams, just makes it easy for the NRL to host and control. The NRL couldn't give a damn if that affects developing nations like Jamaica or the likes of Wales and France who boast largely home grown players.

We've had profitable World Cups with 14 and would have had a very profitable World Cup with 16 if it wasn't for Covid and a 1 year delay. Cost is not the reason for going to 10.

[Pulga]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Control of the international game, ease of hosting and just plain old apathy. A 10 team World Cup featuring 7 Southern hemisphere teams, with the majority largely heritage teams, just makes it easy for the NRL to host and control. The NRL couldn't give a damn if that affects developing nations like Jamaica or the likes of Wales and France who boast largely home grown players.

We've had profitable World Cups with 14 and would have had a very profitable World Cup with 16 if it wasn't for Covid and a 1 year delay. Cost is not the reason for going to 10.

I think it's 100% about cost. They failed to make a decent profit from the last one and can't afford the same outlay. 

[Damien]

4 hours ago, Pulga said:

I think it's 100% about cost. They failed to make a decent profit from the last one and can't afford the same outlay. 

France 2025 was still going to be 16 teams and France was what the Australians pushed for so they didn't need to host following on from England. That obviously changed when they then had no choice but to step up after France withdrew, with England hosting the last one. Its simply now 10 because the Aussies can't be arsed doing any more, when that will involve more non NRL heritage teams, and when they cant be arsed doing the logistics and getting the funding. They were happy for France to do all that though.

I can understand arguments about competitiveness, but cost? No that's a cop out.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Damien

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

France 2025 was still going to be 16 teams and France was what the Australians pushed for so they didnt need to host following on from England. That obviously changed when they then had no choice but to step up after France withdrew, with England hosting the last one. Its simply not 10 because the Aussies can't be arsed doing any more, when that will involve non NRL heritage teams, and when they cant be arsed doing the logistics and getting the funding. They were happy for France to do all that though.

I cam understand arguments about competitiveness, but cost? No that's a cop out.

The richest RL governing body on the planet worried about cost?  Nah - they just don't care

[The Future is League]

2 groups of 6 with the winner of one group playing the runner up in the other group. Semi final sorted and so east to understand

 

[Big Picture]

Just now, The Future is League said:

2 groups of 6 with the winner of one group playing the runner up in the other group. Semi final sorted and so east to understand

So 7 weeks altogether then?

[Dave T]

It is very easy to put this down to cost cutting, and to an extent that is right, costs will be lower, but so will income.

What we are reducing here in reality is effort and financial risk. 

[Pulga]

10 hours ago, Damien said:

France 2025 was still going to be 16 teams and France was what the Australians pushed for so they didn't need to host following on from England. That obviously changed when they then had no choice but to step up after France withdrew, with England hosting the last one. Its simply now 10 because the Aussies can't be arsed doing any more, when that will involve more non NRL heritage teams, and when they cant be arsed doing the logistics and getting the funding. They were happy for France to do all that though.

I can understand arguments about competitiveness, but cost? No that's a cop out.

The Aussies rightfully shouldn't have to shoulder the cost of the IRL's incompetence. Is there any wonder there is a certain scepticism from Australia regarding the international game when you're called on to save a WC at likely a cost? 

Competitiveness is a strawman. We know every other sport on earth that runs a WC is as competitive as ours. Troy Grant has fumbled in a colossal way and is going to fall on his sword while the international game implodes.

This 10-team tournament will be a failure and will set the game back 20 years. 

[dealwithit]

On 12/10/2023 at 17:31, Damien said:

The sport is absolutely no where near getting in the Olympics and is in no way close to meeting the criteria. It's decades of unprecedented worldwide growth away, in RL terms at least. It could double in size and it wouldn't get in.

I also can't see how this strategy means more resources to developing nations. A developing nation just getting to a World Cup opens up great funding and development opportunities. That opportunity has been taken away for practically all.

There is little to no evidence of developing nations attracting (sustained) funding by getting into the WC. 
 

@gingerjon Why would I be delighted? Pre-covid the strategy was G20 nations targeted. Post-covid, we have no money and we need to build up our kitty to better support developing nations. If we hold another 16 team WC, we risk making another loss. Which means we never break out of the cycle. The IRL have come out very strongly and said there’s only 5 nations with 10k participants. We need to focus on building this up first. How? By better resourcing local development. To do that we need profitable WCs, because we aren’t an olympic sport and therefore governments give our members little to nothing. Again, the IRL’s data suggests that there’s only 5 nations with a turnover of £30k or more. That’s diabolical. 

How else do you fast-track development? By being ingrained in a country’s institutions. 

[Damien]

6 hours ago, Pulga said:

The Aussies rightfully shouldn't have to shoulder the cost of the IRL's incompetence. Is there any wonder there is a certain scepticism from Australia regarding the international game when you're called on to save a WC at likely a cost? 

Competitiveness is a strawman. We know every other sport on earth that runs a WC is as competitive as ours. Troy Grant has fumbled in a colossal way and is going to fall on his sword while the international game implodes.

This 10-team tournament will be a failure and will set the game back 20 years. 

Ah so you really just wanted to rant about the IRL again and Troy Grant who was put into that post by the NRL and who followed their agenda from start to finish, right down to his last act and legacy of cutting the World Cup. It was not the IRL's incompetence that caused Covid and a year's delay to the World Cup.

Save a World Cup? They have 4 years for goodness sake. Other profitable World Cups have been held in a shorter timeframe. This is completely the wrong attitude and a World Cup should be viewed an opportunity. If the NRL put half as much effort into it as they do the NRL it would be a great success and profitable. 

The last 2 paragraphs don't even make much sense. I said I understand the competitiveness argument. I don't agree with it being used to cut the World Cup though. I don't want a 10 team World Cup either, I mean that's quite clear from all my posts. It still certainly shouldn't be a failure though.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Damien