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Posted
3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

That is a great question…

 

… I would have thought with all the talk on this thread of London’s successful history in hosting internationals, that a home nations test match in the capital between the top two GB nations would be just as easy to sell, if not easier, than a test match with a backwater Pacific Island nation.

We have posters presenting London’s historic test match crowds as evidence to support the theory that a test match against Samoa in London would sell well. Surely that same theory applies to a test match against Wales.

Not that I’m advocating an England v Wales test match in London.

That is quite the description for Samoa/Tonga .. No wonder you have no interest in them playing, and think no one else would have interest.


Posted
2 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

And just to pick up on what I said above, we don't always have to see everything that the RFL do in a negative way. Maybe their thought process was, there's only going to be two England home games this year, so maybe we should play them the heartlands so that fans there can see their national team play.

Who knows, maybe there would have been people on here complaining if one of the two games was in London. Perhaps if it was Wigan and London, someone in Hull might complain that there's nothing nearer to them.

It's so easy for people - as I'm reading from certain Londoners on here - to play the "oh, they don't care about me (namely Londoners/SE fans)" card, but someone always has to miss out. It doesn't mean that you're not respected or valued, just because you haven't got what you wanted on this occasion.

I think this is kind of part of the problem ...

That you think it is far to go from Hull to Wigan.. No wonder no one in the heartlands travels to other grounds in the heartlands for games, if it isn't in your city it's too far.

And yes, it is very easy for us Londoners to say that they don't care about us.. Because all evidence shows that they don't care about us. If fans in Hull are offended at having to travel to Wigan/Leeds and then you can't understand why Londoners may be annoyed at having to do the same thing, but with just a bit more travel time involved.

Posted

I think there is a distinct lack of imagination with International RL from an England perspective. Which is not good as this is precisely when we need it most given the attitude from the Kangaroos (and by extension NZ) towards us. Whether people like it or not, the RFL need to take the lead on this too. We seem to be incredibly stunted in our thinking.

Were Lebanon considered? Was a London venue explored? Is the short lead up because of lack of multi year planning causing issues with stadium availability outside of RL clubs? Was a tri/4/5/6 nations series considered? What are the RFL doing to counter/provide alternatives to the Pacific Cup?

I suspect the answer to most of those questions would be incredibly negative for supporters of International RL...

  • Like 1
Posted
5 hours ago, Click said:

That is quite the description for Samoa/Tonga .. No wonder you have no interest in them playing, and think no one else would have interest.

That is an accurate description for Samoa, especially one you would expect from an uninitiated Londoner.

  • Like 1
Posted
9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That is an accurate description for Samoa, especially one you would expect from an uninitiated Londoner.

That is so out of touch...

  • Like 1
Posted
11 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That is an accurate description for Samoa, especially one you would expect from an uninitiated Londoner.

GB basketball are selling tickets for a friendly against South Sudan at £40 a pop. Sales are going well it looks like.

How would your backwards, made-up, Londoner describe that country?

  • Like 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

GB basketball are selling tickets for a friendly against South Sudan at £40 a pop. Sales are going well it looks like.

How would your backwards, made-up, Londoner describe that country?

I’m not sure of the point you are making, let alone the relevance ticket sales for international basketball fixtures has to this discussion.

Are you suggesting I gave an inaccurate description of what a Londoner may consider for Samoa? We might have to organise a Family Feud style survey of 100 Londoners to “name a backwater Pacific Island nation”. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

“name a backwater Pacific Island nation”. 

Yeah, I think I'll report it for racism now.

It's getting old.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted

And added to the Ignore list.

Off for a coffee.

  • Haha 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I think there is a distinct lack of imagination with International RL from an England perspective. Which is not good as this is precisely when we need it most given the attitude from the Kangaroos (and by extension NZ) towards us. Whether people like it or not, the RFL need to take the lead on this too. We seem to be incredibly stunted in our thinking.

Were Lebanon considered? Was a London venue explored? Is the short lead up because of lack of multi year planning causing issues with stadium availability outside of RL clubs? Was a tri/4/5/6 nations series considered? What are the RFL doing to counter/provide alternatives to the Pacific Cup?

I suspect the answer to most of those questions would be incredibly negative for supporters of International RL...

I think the RFL have demonstrated a significant lack of resources to finance anything other than a small time two test series at average northern stadiums. I don’t expect the RFL can afford to bring finance Lebanon or a 3/4/5/6 nations series (even if they only pay the English players $250 match fee).

I am certain though, as you have asked, the poor multi year planning of international RL in the NH is having an effect on stadium availability.

As to countering Pacific growth with a similar NH strategy. The RFL have shown us no such thing.

Posted
10 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think the RFL have demonstrated a significant lack of resources to finance anything other than a small time two test series at average northern stadiums. I don’t expect the RFL can afford to bring finance Lebanon or a 3/4/5/6 nations series (even if they only pay the English players $250 match fee).

I am certain though, as you have asked, the poor multi year planning of international RL in the NH is having an effect on stadium availability.

As to countering Pacific growth with a similar NH strategy. The RFL have shown us no such thing.

The RFL have been left in the cold and don't know what to do. I don't think they have the imagination or confidence in resources to work their way out of this mess either.

  • Like 1
Posted
Just now, Tommygilf said:

The RFL have been left in the cold and don't know what to do. I don't think they have the imagination or confidence in resources to work their way out of this mess either.

Couldn’t agree more. Which is why I am satisfied with the time and resources available, the selection of Wigan and Leeds as venues is probably the best decision.

Posted
8 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think the RFL have demonstrated a significant lack of resources to finance anything other than a small time two test series at average northern stadiums. I don’t expect the RFL can afford to bring finance Lebanon or a 3/4/5/6 nations series (even if they only pay the English players $250 match fee).

I am certain though, as you have asked, the poor multi year planning of international RL in the NH is having an effect on stadium availability.

As to countering Pacific growth with a similar NH strategy. The RFL have shown us no such thing.

This isn't quite true, and I make no apologies for going in to bat for the RFL somewhat here. 

The RFL put their chips on building international governing bodies that would govern the game in Europe and the World. The actuals were to deliver strong world cups plus regular Euro Nations cups, plus a regular 4N at the top level which included an emerging nation each time. 

We can't ignore that for 20 years the European nations all played more games, including games at home than their Pacific counterparts. 

As the RFL has lost influence on the world stage through the IRL most of these things have gone by the wayside. 

Of course they aren't blameless here, but comparing Euro nations to the likes of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji is a nonsense. They are different on pretty much every level. 

  • Like 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The RFL have been left in the cold and don't know what to do. I don't think they have the imagination or confidence in resources to work their way out of this mess either.

And I must confess to having some sympathy with them on this. 

But that sort of makes doing well with the scraps even more important. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

That is so out of touch...

And wrong.

In terms of selling their Rugby pedigree I don't think people see the PI nations like that at all. Most are accutely aware of their Rugby pedigree going back decades whether that is in RL or RU. Samoa beat England in a RLWC semi final in London in front of 40k+ on FTA. Last year England RU only just beat Samoa by 1 point in their World Cup.

I think the PI nations offer a crucial point of difference for RL when it comes to internationals. They offer a whole different selling point and this is particularly so when we only have a limited number of top level nations.

  • Like 3
Posted
1 minute ago, Damien said:

And wrong.

In terms of selling their Rugby pedigree I don't think people see the PI nations like that at all. Most are accutely aware of their Rugby pedigree going back decades whether that is in RL or RU. Samoa beat England in a RLWC semi final in London in front of 40k+ on FTA. Last year England RU only just beat Samoa by 1 point in their World Cup.

I think the PI nations offer a crucial point of difference for RL when it comes to internationals. They offer a whole different selling point and this is particularly so when we only have a limited number of top level nations.

Also, there are many ex pat Kiwis, Aussies, Northerners in London who are well aware how good the PI nations are. There are also a fair few Londoners who have awareness and would bring friends along plus event goers who might be enticed with some marketing 

Posted
1 minute ago, Dave T said:

This isn't quite true, and I make no apologies for going in to bat for the RFL somewhat here. 

The RFL put their chips on building international governing bodies that would govern the game in Europe and the World. The actuals were to deliver strong world cups plus regular Euro Nations cups, plus a regular 4N at the top level which included an emerging nation each time. 

We can't ignore that for 20 years the European nations all played more games, including games at home than their Pacific counterparts. 

As the RFL has lost influence on the world stage through the IRL most of these things have gone by the wayside. 

Of course they aren't blameless here, but comparing Euro nations to the likes of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji is a nonsense. They are different on pretty much every level. 

 

Comparing grassroots RLEF activity to a discussion of top flight international RL is very different. So there is no argument from me and never was.

At the elite level, where I am aiming my discussion, we can’t ignore that after 2013 WC, there was a reasonably strong Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France for the RFL to suitably establish a consistent European calendar. Instead, we are 10 steps back and it is even more difficult to establish these opportunities.

Posted
13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And I must confess to having some sympathy with them on this. 

But that sort of makes doing well with the scraps even more important. 

I have some sympathy but that is limited somewhat by how the former leadership of the RFL acquiesced to it in return for their GB Tours nostalgia fest. 

Agreed that the failure to make the scraps work has made a poor situation even worse!

Posted
12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And I must confess to having some sympathy with them on this. 

But that sort of makes doing well with the scraps even more important. 

It certainly does. The RFL are beneficiaries of their own pitiful performances in delivering international RL. I have absolutely no sympathy for the RFL. They only have themselves to blame.

The fixtures are set, nothing can be changed now. The thing the RFL need to do is deliver two sell outs in Wigan and Leeds which will come with a reasonable financial reward and give the RFL some credibility for other nations to tour, because last year’s fiasco has seen them lose near on all credibility.

Posted
16 minutes ago, Damien said:

And wrong.

In terms of selling their Rugby pedigree I don't think people see the PI nations like that at all. Most are accutely aware of their Rugby pedigree going back decades whether that is in RL or RU. Samoa beat England in a RLWC semi final in London in front of 40k+ on FTA. Last year England RU only just beat Samoa by 1 point in their World Cup.

I think the PI nations offer a crucial point of difference for RL when it comes to internationals. They offer a whole different selling point and this is particularly so when we only have a limited number of top level nations.

Absolutely. We could play RL (or RU) against Germany yet everyone would know that's not a sport they are very good at despite being the antithesis of how the PI nations have been described.

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