England vs Samoa Series

[crashmon]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

So they came out of the blue once and you don’t think they will come out of the blue again. Despite great memories of the last occasion albeit it having been played in 2022?

Sounds pretty absurd to me.

No they wont.  Because they now see League as a northern game for flat cappers who have no interest in there money, attendance or custom. 

Why put themselves out for a tiny sport in the M62 corridor?

Fool Me Once, Shame on You; Fool Me Twice, Shame on Me

Edited June 18, 2024 by crashmon

[Sports Prophet]

5 hours ago, crashmon said:

No they wont.  Because they now see League as a northern game for flat cappers who have no interest in there money, attendance or custom. 

Why put themselves out for a tiny sport in the M62 corridor?

Fool Me Once, Shame on You; Fool Me Twice, Shame on Me

That is as absurd as I thought.

[Click]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

That is as absurd as I thought.

Why?

People in London keep getting told that this is a Northern game, played for and by Northerners. And everything, at every turn seems to back that up.

We have a very prominent Leigh poster on here that constantly talks down RL, as if nobody outside a rough ex-pit town could possibly enjoy the sport.

[JohnM]

My Farnborough-dwelling soccer-loving mate informed of the goings-on in our sport. He came to the Emirates WC game, various other internationals at Wembley etc over the years and may well come north to watch the game.  Even better, he's proposing going to the WC in 2026.

His view of the sport's international dimension would probably breach forum rules.  Schedule, planning, marketing etc.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, Click said:

Why?

People in London keep getting told that this is a Northern game, played for and by Northerners. And everything, at every turn seems to back that up.

We have a very prominent Leigh poster on here that constantly talks down RL, as if nobody outside a rough ex-pit town could possibly enjoy the sport.

Where I live, top flight RL is near on non-existent. Could the NRL be doing more to have games played where I am? Definitely.

Does it upset me more games are not played here? Yes, but I understand the reasoning why there isn’t as much as I would like. 

Will I stay at home when the next live game in town just because I think I am deserving of more? Absolutely not.

I think your friends will go next time if you put as much effort into it as you did last time.

Edited June 19, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[gingerjon]

33 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Where I live, too flight RL is near on non-existent.

"Location:Sydney/London"

[Click]

55 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Where I live, too flight RL is near on non-existent. Could the NRL be doing more to have games played where I am? Definitely.

Does it upset me more games are not played here? Yes, but I understand the reasoning why there isn’t as much as I would like. 

Will I not attend the next live game in town just because I think I am deserving of more? Absolutely not.

I think your friends will go next time if you put as much effort into it as you did last time.

You apparently live in Sydney, how you think you can relate to what London RL fans go through, I'll never know.

How many NRL clubs are based in Sydney again?

[MattSantos]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Where I live, too flight RL is near on non-existent. Could the NRL be doing more to have games played where I am? Definitely.

Does it upset me more games are not played here? Yes, but I understand the reasoning why there isn’t as much as I would like. 

Will I not attend the next live game in town just because I think I am deserving of more? Absolutely not.

I think your friends will go next time if you put as much effort into it as you did last time.

These are valid points, but the time between an announcement and the event is too small. Time is often booked and money already taken to pay for something else which was announced earlier. 

I know when the NFL games are. I know when the Ryder Cup is. I know when the Masters is. Formula 1 - Yep. Cricket tours are all named with fair notice. Football is like clockwork. All easier to schedule and pay for. 

When is the next series against Australia? No idea. 

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

"Location:Sydney/London"

 

1 hour ago, Click said:

You apparently live in Sydney, how you think you can relate to what London RL fans go through, I'll never know.

How many NRL clubs are based in Sydney again?

I neither live in Sydney or London anymore.

Edited June 19, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[MattSantos]

Just now, Sports Prophet said:

 

I neither live in Sydney nor London anymore.

Do you still preach the Gospel?

[Sports Prophet]

1 minute ago, MattSantos said:

These are valid points, but the time between an announcement and the event is too small. Time is often booked and money already taken to pay for something else which was announced earlier. 

I know when the NFL games are. I know when the Ryder Cup is. I know when the Masters is. Formula 1 - Yep. Cricket tours are all named with fair notice. Football is like clockwork. All easier to schedule and pay for. 

When is the next series against Australia? No idea. 

The next series against Australia is next year at the end of the club season. Next series against Australia in UK is supposedly 2028. I wouldn’t expect dates and venues to be announced for either yet.

Not to fully take away from your point. This series is a late announcement, however I don’t think it was through lack of the RFL trying to firm up dates earlier.

[Sports Prophet]

2 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Do you still preach the Gospel?

Almost every day on this very forum

[MattSantos]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The next series against Australia is next year at the end of the club season. Next series against Australia in UK is supposedly 2028. I wouldn’t expect dates and venues to be announced for either yet.

Not to fully take away from your point. This series is a late announcement, however I don’t think it was through lack of the RFL trying to firm up dates earlier.

Dates and venues are important when you don't live in England. Next years Aussie series is kinda the same given i can't guarantee a fixture like you would a Boxing Day / NY cricket test. My point stands that before they're announced, someone will say fancy this.. and the time will go to that instead.

Edited June 19, 2024 by MattSantos

[Sports Prophet]

3 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Dates and venues are important when you don't live in England and can't guarantee a London fixture. My point stands that before they're announced, someone will say fancy this.. and the time will go to that instead.

I don’t really understand your comment, but I do agree in general with your sentiment. The international programme is far too inconsistent and most commonly set with far too little time to appropriately manage. This Samoa series is simply another example.

[crashmon]

In London you have lots of options of things to do lots of choices, lots of things I can spend my money on.   Its not like being in the middle of the country where you have limited options so having a sports event is an occasion.  I have many sports occasions in London every week.

So if you want to stand out in London, you need to do a lot more than just show up.  You have to show why you are better for people to attend and spend their money than all the other options you have.

Edited June 19, 2024 by crashmon

[Anita Bath]

18 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

The next series against Australia is next year at the end of the club season. Next series against Australia in UK is supposedly 2028. I wouldn’t expect dates and venues to be announced for either yet.

Not to fully take away from your point. This series is a late announcement, however I don’t think it was through lack of the RFL trying to firm up dates earlier.

So they say…but no dates, no locations, no tickets, no prices. All these have been announced for the British Lions tour…tickets already sold. Now if the clowns who run rugby union can do it why cant the RFL/NRL. 

 

To think that those gin swilling numpties that are overseeing the rapid decline of Union are so far ahead of us.

[RP London]

19 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Do you still preach the Gospel?

Are they still male??? 

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Anita Bath said:

So they say…but no dates, no locations, no tickets, no prices. All these have been announced for the British Lions tour…tickets already sold. Now if the clowns who run rugby union can do it why cant the RFL/NRL. 

 

To think that those gin swilling numpties that are overseeing the rapid decline of Union are so far ahead of us.

And to be fair the aussies have history in the department of not showing up and RL has a history of not following through with "plans" in general (that 10 year plan that looked so good until they changed it completely). So until the dates and venues are sorted I'm not banking on either "tour" happening.

[Dave T]

We miss the point a little when we talk about regularity and organisation on London. 

Sure, we can arrange a random game in London, and it'll generally do well. Even when the Semi final at Arsenal was disappointing (clashed with Twickenham match, some silly prices, poor marketing, rubbish event, poor momentum from a world cup played in empty grounds), it still got 40k. And that was the first England game in London since 2016.

So we know that London can deliver without building momentum. 

But, and this is the key point here - imagine what could be in London if we had a clear and we'll planned strategy, with regular, well-organised international matches there every year. Maybe, just maybe we wouldn't have crowds of just randoms each time. Maybe we could get regular London fans in the ground every year. Maybe they'd bring people along and become out and out RL fans. Maybe that would make it cheaper and easier to attract a crowd. Maybe engaging with these people more would lead to more investors, sponsors, players, their kids playing. Maybe our matches would have good atmospheres as we had regular groups of fans. Maybe the media would engage more with us. 

As things stand, we know we could arrange a game in five years against the Aussies and maybe get 40k or so and pat ourselves on the back, but we need to get out of the mindset of ok being enough. 

Not unlike the conversations about France on the other thread, we need to really look at why we are talking about London. It's about so much more than just hiring a ground and staging a game there every now and again. We need leaders who understand that and fully embrace it and go for it. We'll never move the dial by doing bare minimum. 

And much of the above also goes for internationals in the heartlands too, but that's not for this post. 

Edited June 20, 2024 by Dave T

[JohnM]

We don't seem to have the money needed to make long term plans and to stick to them. I doubt you could book Wembley or any other stadium for a game without passing a credit check and maybe laying down a 10% deposit. 

'ere guv, can we play at the London Stadium please? Yes, sure, no problem. Show me the money first though.

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, JohnM said:

We don't seem to have the money needed to make long term plans and to stick to them. I doubt you could book Wembley or any other stadium for a game without passing a credit check and maybe laying down a 10% deposit. 

'ere guv, can we play at the London Stadium please? Yes, sure, no problem. Show me the money first though.

The only thing I would concede for the RFL on this whole point about planning and regularity is that we do not have friendly partners within the game. And let's be honest, they are downright aggressive. 

For a spell we had the Kiwis, where we had a couple of series and even a joint venture to go to the USA, but the NRL flexed their muscles and put the Kiwis back in their place. 

The rest of it, that's on the RFL. 

[frank]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The only thing I would concede for the RFL on this whole point about planning and regularity is that we do not have friendly partners within the game. And let's be honest, they are downright aggressive. 

For a spell we had the Kiwis, where we had a couple of series and even a joint venture to go to the USA, but the NRL flexed their muscles and put the Kiwis back in their place. 

The rest of it, that's on the RFL. 

It the nail on the head Dave. The NRL  are to blame for problems in the  both the UK and NZ.

[Damien]

44 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The only thing I would concede for the RFL on this whole point about planning and regularity is that we do not have friendly partners within the game. And let's be honest, they are downright aggressive. 

For a spell we had the Kiwis, where we had a couple of series and even a joint venture to go to the USA, but the NRL flexed their muscles and put the Kiwis back in their place. 

The rest of it, that's on the RFL. 

This is undoubtedly an issue. We are never actually certain that matches are going to happen anymore until teams touch down on these shores.

[17 stone giant]

20 hours ago, Dave T said:

We miss the point a little when we talk about regularity and organisation on London. 

Sure, we can arrange a random game in London, and it'll generally do well. Even when the Semi final at Arsenal was disappointing (clashed with Twickenham match, some silly prices, poor marketing, rubbish event, poor momentum from a world cup played in empty grounds), it still got 40k. And that was the first England game in London since 2016.

So we know that London can deliver without building momentum. 

But, and this is the key point here - imagine what could be in London if we had a clear and we'll planned strategy, with regular, well-organised international matches there every year. Maybe, just maybe we wouldn't have crowds of just randoms each time. Maybe we could get regular London fans in the ground every year. Maybe they'd bring people along and become out and out RL fans. Maybe that would make it cheaper and easier to attract a crowd. Maybe engaging with these people more would lead to more investors, sponsors, players, their kids playing. Maybe our matches would have good atmospheres as we had regular groups of fans. Maybe the media would engage more with us. 

As things stand, we know we could arrange a game in five years against the Aussies and maybe get 40k or so and pat ourselves on the back, but we need to get out of the mindset of ok being enough. 

Not unlike the conversations about France on the other thread, we need to really look at why we are talking about London. It's about so much more than just hiring a ground and staging a game there every now and again. We need leaders who understand that and fully embrace it and go for it. We'll never move the dial by doing bare minimum. 

And much of the above also goes for internationals in the heartlands too, but that's not for this post. 

I don't disagree with the sentiments, but how are you going to do it unless radical changes are made to how things are currently done? Next year it's the Ashes in Oz, and the following year it's the WC in Oz, so we're not even sure if there will be any games in England, let alone London.

I know you're an advocate for two international windows, and I'd like that also, but what are the chances of that ever happening?

Londoners do at least have the Broncos to watch (ideally you'd want them in the highest level competition), and they also have the Challenge Cup final on their doorstep every year. Maybe there are creative ways to engage Londoners with those, rather than just relying on England matches to do it.

 

[17 stone giant]

On 17/06/2024 at 13:29, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

For starters, I would have England play WC qualifiers, so that what would otherwise be a meaningless one-off game against somebody like France could be instantly turned into something far more meaningful for the wider public.

How would structure this? I'm just thinking that under no circumstances could England be allowed not to qualify for a WC, so where would the jeopardy be? Wouldn't it just be a series of walkovers under the banner of WC qualifiers?

I'd imagine you'd probably want to ensure that France qualified too (I certainly would, because France is the best hope of having another successful NH team), so even the England v France game wouldn't have any real significance.