Barley Mow Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bulls2487 said: I imagine we will play Halifax and Keighley. Possibly. There will be one 1895 Cup group that has two L1 clubs, the rest will all have two Championship clubs - On the basis that it is made as local as possible my guess is: Group 1 - Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington Group 2 - Widnes, Swinton, N Wales Group 3 - Sheffield, Doncaster, Midlands Group 4 - Wakefield, Dewsbury, Hunslet Group 5 - Bradford, Batley, Keighley Group 6 - Halifax, Oldham, Rochdale Group 7 - Featherstone, York, Newcastle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathius Hellwege Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: I doubt it'll be a surprise to anyone, but Workington's season ticket information confirms that the other two clubs in their 1895 cup group will be Whitehaven and Barrow: https://www.townrlfc.com/article/788/2024-season-ticket-offers Cumbria county Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 45 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said: Cumbria county Cup Cumbria's no longer a county. It's been abolished. 2 "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Poster Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, Griff said: Cumbria's no longer a county. It's been abolished. You better tell the geezer who is in charge of the road signs then. As of last week driving back over the border it still says “Welcome to England” then underneath “Cumbria”. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 2 hours ago, The Masked Poster said: You better tell the geezer who is in charge of the road signs then. As of last week driving back over the border it still says “Welcome to England” then underneath “Cumbria”. Don't worry. Cumbria still exists. It's a ceremonial county. Only the council no longer exists. 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Griff said: Cumbria's no longer a county. It's been abolished. Wrong as usual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 1 minute ago, dkw said: Wrong as usual. the local government reorganisation says: The six district councils and Cumbria County Council were replaced by two new unitary authorities and a fire and rescue service; Cumberland Council, Westmorland and Furness Council and Cumbria Fire and Rescue Service. So I am assuming that Cumbria County Council wont/doesn't exist based upon that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, redjonn said: the local government reorganisation says: The six district councils and Cumbria County Council were replaced by two new unitary authorities and a fire and rescue service; Cumberland Council, Westmorland and Furness Council and Cumbria Fire and Rescue Service. So I am assuming that Cumbria County Council wont/doesn't exist based upon that... Correct. Cumbria County Council and the various district councils were disbanded in April and replaced with the two unitary councils that you mention. Cumbria does however remain the ceremonial and shrieval county, the area for the police and fire authorities and in use for Government statistics, etc. Edited November 16, 2023 by Barley Mow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, redjonn said: the local government reorganisation says: The six district councils and Cumbria County Council were replaced by two new unitary authorities and a fire and rescue service; Cumberland Council, Westmorland and Furness Council and Cumbria Fire and Rescue Service. So I am assuming that Cumbria County Council wont/doesn't exist based upon that... Yep, just the council. As Barley Mow says Cumbria is still in existence, Griff talking nonsense as usual. Or maybe he knows better than the Police, Fire Service, NHS and many many other services. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 48 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: Correct. Cumbria County Council and the various district councils were disbanded in April and replaced with the two unitary councils that you mention. Cumbria does however remain the ceremonial and shrieval county, the area for the police and fire authorities and in use for Government statistics, etc. Lots of police forces cover more than one county. Thames Valley, Devon and Corfnwall, for instance. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 45 minutes ago, dkw said: Yep, just the council. As Barley Mow says Cumbria is still in existence, Griff talking nonsense as usual. Or maybe he knows better than the Police, Fire Service, NHS and many many other services. Well, again, I've never heard of Thames Valleyshire, yet it seems to have its own police force. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 4 hours ago, The Masked Poster said: You better tell the geezer who is in charge of the road signs then. As of last week driving back over the border it still says “Welcome to England” then underneath “Cumbria”. The signs were always wrong. No change there. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Griff said: Lots of police forces cover more than one county. Thames Valley, Devon and Corfnwall, for instance. Yes, absolutely - West Mercia Police, and Avon & Somerset Police are other examples. You and I have this same conversation every time somebody mentions Cumbria as a county. I agree with you that Cumberland, Westmorland, etc were never abolished. They just had their role in local government, ceremonial events, emergency services, etc removed. Unfortunately when those functions were reassigned, the 1973 Act also called the new areas 'counties'. If they had called them something else (sub-regions for example) then there would have been a lot less confusion. Nonetheless, the Act created these new counties (whilst not abolishing the existing ones). The situation today therefore is, for example, in Barrow: The traditional county is Lancashire. The ceremonial county is Cumbria. The council is Westmorland and Furness. As much as you or I might think it misguided to label Cumbria as a county in 1973, that is what the Act of Parliament did - and the ceremonial county remains unchanged since then. Edited November 16, 2023 by Barley Mow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: As much as you or I might think it misguided to label Cumbria as a county in 1973, that is what the Act of Parliament did - and the ceremonial county remains unchanged since then. Ceremonial county ? That's just about which fella in a military style uniform and a hat with a big feather meets the King when he calls. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Griff said: Ceremonial county ? That's just about which fella in a military style uniform and a hat with a big feather meets the King when he calls. No feathers I'm afraid, but essentially - yes. The ceremonial counties are the areas covered by Lords Lieutenant: The Monarch's representative in/link to different areas of the country. As important or unimportant as that is, the role and the ceremonial counties do exist. The one covering Cumberland, Westmorland and the far north-west of Yorkshire and Lancashire is... ...Cumbria. Edited November 16, 2023 by Barley Mow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, Griff said: Ceremonial county ? That's just about which fella in a military style uniform and a hat with a big feather meets the King when he calls. No counties are actually real. They're all just pretend. HTH. 2 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, gingerjon said: No counties are actually real. They're all just pretend. HTH. Its an odd hill to die on, though that has been a recent theme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Poster Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 40 minutes ago, Griff said: The signs were always wrong. No change there. Which bit? England or Cumbria? I know England definitely exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Perhaps we should steer this back towards the 1895 cup before the thread gets locked. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 7 hours ago, Barley Mow said: Possibly. There will be one 1895 Cup group that has two L1 clubs, the rest will all have two Championship clubs - On the basis that it is made as local as possible my guess is: Group 1 - Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington Group 2 - Widnes, Swinton, N Wales Group 3 - Sheffield, Doncaster, Midlands Group 4 - Wakefield, Dewsbury, Hunslet Group 5 - Bradford, Batley, Keighley Group 6 - Halifax, Oldham, Rochdale Group 7 - Featherstone, York, Newcastle Groups are supposedly going to be both regionalised AND seeded so some interesting groupings there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Groups are supposedly going to be both regionalised AND seeded so some interesting groupings there. I took the seeding to be the split between Championship and L1 club. I could be wrong, but the confirmed Barrow-Haven-Workington group suggests I could be thinking along the right lines - Barrow and Whitehaven were both in the bottom four in the Championship last year - so 'regionalisation' has won out over 'seeding' amongst Championship clubs on that one. Edited November 16, 2023 by Barley Mow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 54 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: I took the seeding to be the split between Championship and L1 club. I could be wrong, but the confirmed Barrow-Haven-Workington group suggests I could be thinking along the right lines - Barrow and Whitehaven were both in the bottom four in the Championship last year - so 'regionalisation' has won out over 'seeding' amongst Championship clubs on that one. That is how I read it too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene_Artois Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 8 hours ago, Barley Mow said: Possibly. There will be one 1895 Cup group that has two L1 clubs, the rest will all have two Championship clubs - On the basis that it is made as local as possible my guess is: Group 1 - Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington Group 2 - Widnes, Swinton, N Wales Group 3 - Sheffield, Doncaster, Midlands Group 4 - Wakefield, Dewsbury, Hunslet Group 5 - Bradford, Batley, Keighley Group 6 - Halifax, Oldham, Rochdale Group 7 - Featherstone, York, Newcastle Group 3. The southern group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Rene_Artois said: Group 3. The southern group Whichever Yorkshire/Lancashire clubs are in groups with North Wales, Midlands & Newcastle will obviously have a longer journey for those matches. They have however already seemingly twisted Cornwall's arms into withdrawing, so the longest trip is knocked on the head completely. Widnes & Swinton in the west, Doncaster & Sheffield in the east and York (plus 1) in the north seem like the Championship clubs most likely to be grouped with N Wales, Midlands and Newcastle from a geographical point of view. Unless they put NW and Midlands in the same group with either Widnes or Swinton and have that single group doing all of the longest journeys. Edited November 16, 2023 by Barley Mow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: Whichever Yorkshire/Lancashire clubs are in groups with North Wales, Midlands & Newcastle will obviously have a longer journey for those matches. They have however already seemingly twisted Cornwall's arms into withdrawing, so the longest trip is knocked on the head completely. Widnes & Swinton in the west, Doncaster & Sheffield in the east and York (plus 1) in the north seem like the most likely candidates to be grouped with N Wales, Midlands and Newcastle from a geographical point of view. Unless they put NW and Midlands in the same group with either Widnes or Swinton and have that single group doing all of the longest journeys. If Widnes end up travelling to Colwyn Bay or Wrexham, it would be quicker by road than 12 out of 13 away trips in the Championship. Even the Alexander Stadium is closer than Cumbria or some of the Yorkshire clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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