What needs to be done differently?

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Memory must be shocking, I thought I had answered.

Nope not where I was quoting here you hadnt.

[bobbruce]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There as been many that have gone to the wall Bob, not all.

Which if those do you consider not to heartland clubs, unless of course you mean Westmoorland

Cumbria could be looked at as heartland now but it wasn’t then but we managed to spread the game there.  

[gingerjon]

35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Clarify the RFL's expansion programme for me and what it spends on it.

There isn’t one and it doesn’t.

Nor is there any dedicated expansion work underway.

So I’m just wondering what magic extra will happen inside the heartlands when this nothing is applied there instead of outside the heartlands.

[gingerjon]

double post

Edited September 12 by gingerjon

[Big Picture]

27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Please point me.

You've said a few times before that in your past travels up and down the UK, when you tried talking the game up with locals in areas outside the heartlands you found that most of them either had never heard of the game or had but viewed it negatively.

I've asked you at least twice what the mix of those views was, i.e. were there more who had never heard of the game or more who who had but viewed it negatively, and how much bigger was the bigger of the two groups?  You've never answered that AFAIK.

Edited September 12 by Big Picture

[RP London]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

double post

It was a very good point though..... and one people conveniently seem to forget when saying "we shouldn't be spending all of this money on expansion" 

[unapologetic pedant]

41 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

If I wanted to expand the game into [region], I would first develop and nurture the community game - very hard work but not big £££. 

The fortunes of RL in the UK will not be transformed by national media promotion, so I agree that ties to the game can only be built through participation. The "Touch/Tag RL" thread is germane.

We have to accept the percentage of any population able and willing to play Tackle RL is low. And in expansion areas, the small minority prepared to tick the Tackle box are more naturally drawn to Union.

Community RL clubs should make League Tag their primary offer, adding a Tackle section as and when sufficient demand arises. Can't see any other way to attract the numbers required to grow.

[Archie Gordon]

33 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The fortunes of RL in the UK will not be transformed by national media promotion, so I agree that ties to the game can only be built through participation. The "Touch/Tag RL" thread is germane.

We have to accept the percentage of any population able and willing to play Tackle RL is low. And in expansion areas, the small minority prepared to tick the Tackle box are more naturally drawn to Union.

Community RL clubs should make League Tag their primary offer, adding a Tackle section as and when sufficient demand arises. Can't see any other way to attract the numbers required to grow.

Yep - I'd forgotten touch/tag. A great way for community clubs to build membership.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

There isn’t one and it doesn’t.

Nor is there any dedicated expansion work underway.

So I’m just wondering what magic extra will happen inside the heartlands when this nothing is applied there instead of outside the heartlands.

Yes I knew that, just checking if you did to.

If you care to read back what I have intimated at, it is that in my opinion any investment that is made should be here in the heartlands to make it as big and as good as it can be before any expansion projects are set upon, there is a lot we need to do to get our own house in order first and foremost and if we eventually get to were we are comfortable and can afford it look further afield then.

 

Edited September 12 by Harry Stottle

[gingerjon]

23 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Yep - I'd forgotten touch/tag. A great way for community clubs to build membership.

One is affiliated to the RFU and one to the RFL, is that right? It’s been a while since I checked.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

You've said a few times before that in your past travels up and down the UK, when you tried talking the game up with locals in areas outside the heartlands you found that most of them either had never heard of the game or had but viewed it negatively.

I've asked you at least twice what the mix of those views was, i.e. were there more who had never heard of the game or more who who had but viewed it negatively, and how much bigger was the bigger of the two groups?  You've never answered that AFAIK.

If I remember rightly but happy to be corrected, I said many did not realise there was two forms of Rugby and those that did know the game some indifferent views mostly not bothered about it but some did like it, but they were few and far between.

[Archie Gordon]

7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

One is affiliated to the RFU and one to the RFL, is that right? It’s been a while since I checked.

I think there may even be more than 2 options ... best to go down the correct route!

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

It was a very good point though..... and one people conveniently seem to forget when saying "we shouldn't be spending all of this money on expansion" 

Who has said that RP? 

[Click]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes I knew that, just checking if you did to.

If you care to read back what I have intimated at, it is that in my opinion any investment that is made should be here in the heartlands to make it as big and as good as it can be before any expansion projects are set upon, there is a lot we need to do to get our own house in order first and foremost and if we eventually get to were we are comfortable and can afford it look further afield then.

 

What makes investment in the heartlands "big and good" ? 

The heartlands have already had all the money available to it since RL started.

[Click]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Who has said that RP? 

All your mates in those boozers across the RL heartlands ... 

Probably.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Click said:

What makes investment in the heartlands "big and good" ? 

The heartlands have already had all the money available to it since RL started.

'to make it as big and as good as it can be' I said.

I believe there is much more we can do to improve it, maybe someone is realising that by bringing IMG on board, as you know I am very dubious that they will succeed, I don't agree with what they are doing and that has been discussed enough on another thread.

And as far as this discussion is concerned Click, I have made my opinion clear in that before going outside the heartlands concentrate on getting this house in order, I respect the opinion of you and others that believe we should be spreading the game now, but I do not believe we should that is the right path we should be taking.

I will leave it at that.

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, Click said:

All your mates in those boozers across the RL heartlands ... 

Probably.

'Suppingosition'

[17 stone giant]

4 hours ago, JonM said:

We have had a privately educated, former president of the Cambridge Union lesbian from Hampshire as RFL president too. 

That gives me hope as I tick one of those boxes.

[RP London]

24 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Who has said that RP? 

it is said very often by very many people who falsely believe that money and resources are pointed at expansion and you know that.. but lets go nitpicking to distract the point being made, go on you know you want to... lets go for "point me to the posts" etc that should waste some time even though we all know its been said.. 

[RP London]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

'to make it as big and as good as it can be' I said.

I believe there is much more we can do to improve it, maybe someone is realising that by bringing IMG on board, as you know I am very dubious that they will succeed, I don't agree with what they are doing and that has been discussed enough on another thread.

And as far as this discussion is concerned Click, I have made my opinion clear in that before going outside the heartlands concentrate on getting this house in order, I respect the opinion of you and others that believe we should be spreading the game now, but I do not believe we should that is the right path we should be taking.

I will leave it at that.

but we have had 135 years to get our house in order in the heartlands and look at it, just look at it! We need to do something different rather than what you are suggesting which is what people have tried (very badly) to do before.. hence the title of the thread. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is...???

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

it is said very often by very many people who falsely believe that money and resources are pointed at expansion and you know that.. but lets go nitpicking to distract the point being made, go on you know you want to... lets go for "point me to the posts" etc that should waste some time even though we all know its been said.. 

 

4 minutes ago, RP London said:

but we have had 135 years to get our house in order in the heartlands and look at it, just look at it! We need to do something different rather than what you are suggesting which is what people have tried (very badly) to do before.. hence the title of the thread. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is...???

Thanks for your opinion on the subject, let's leave it there shall we.

[17 stone giant]

I think the key point for me - and someone else has already mentioned it - is that expansion doesn't only mean establishing a full time club in a new area. Expansion means getting more people interested in the sport, at whatever level is right for them. On this latter point, I think there is scope for improvement. Whether it would need someone to come into the game with a bit of money (like the NRL), I'm not sure. But I don't think the sport is without all hope.

[JohnM]

I feel there must be scope for the Championship clubs to strengthen their league. The soccer Sky Bet Championship seems to be doing alright. With 24 teams, there's very strong indetification and  support from loyal local fans who will never see their club promoted It might be that our Championship clubs are the ones to tap into the close to home market and grass roots.

And theres always the Ultimate Rugby League.

Edited September 12 by JohnM

[EggFace]

7 hours ago, JonM said:

Twice I reckon (Richard Lewis and David Oxley). Arguably Bill Fallowfield was an outsider as an ex- England RU international, ex- RAF Officer and Cambridge Graduate, even if he was a Northern man. We have had a privately educated, former president of the Cambridge Union lesbian from Hampshire as RFL president too. 

You can not find very much on Bill Fallowfield on the internet not even photos and been mentioned in the past that he was astooge for the RFU which more in likely he wasn't.

[EggFace]

4 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The fortunes of RL in the UK will not be transformed by national media promotion, so I agree that ties to the game can only be built through participation. The "Touch/Tag RL" thread is germane.

We have to accept the percentage of any population able and willing to play Tackle RL is low. And in expansion areas, the small minority prepared to tick the Tackle box are more naturally drawn to Union.

Community RL clubs should make League Tag their primary offer, adding a Tackle section as and when sufficient demand arises. Can't see any other way to attract the numbers required to grow.

Thats the future for all clubs be it pro/semi and social and have a strong section and I would have Tag in the Autumn,Winter months and Touch in the Spring/Summer plus its for all ages and is mixed and its money behind the bar and inreases membership.