RL at the Darts

[The Masked Poster]

9 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Hostage to outrageous fortune, if you are easily bruised.

Few years ago, after making the mistake of venturing into the politics section, our ginger friend said I supported the IRA murdering children in Warrington.

Hard to beat that one. Hence, by your reasoning, I must be the least important member of the forum.

I am easily bruised though, is that a crime? I don't make posts winding people up or antagonising people, so I don't expect nasty personal comments in return. Too much to ask ? 

Edited December 23, 2024 by The Masked Poster

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

the individuals create the popularity -they could say littler for darts and harry kane for football for instance

Of course they could say that. But 12m ago they would have struggled to name a darts player.

And I'd guess they'd struggle to name a Union player now.

Edited December 23, 2024 by Dave T

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

our ginger friend said I supported the IRA murdering children in Warrington.

Edited - following your post in The Other Place.

Edited December 23, 2024 by gingerjon

[The Masked Poster]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

We have a context. 

Someone said that darts had higher participation than Rugby League.  I checked the largest national survey and it showed that Rugby League had a higher participation number.

If the darts number was higher I would have posted that.

But the thing is that the number of people who just play a game of darts in the pub are participants, and this will be way way more than the number of people who play any form of RL. They obviously don't register themselves as "darts players" but they are participating in a game of darts. It requires little effort to have a game of darts in a pub with a friend, whereas to play any variation of RL, you have to go to the effort of joining a team, get kit etc etc. 

Confused why dkw is laughing at the fact that more people play darts than RL. Denial of reality does NOT help RL one iota. 

Edited December 23, 2024 by The Masked Poster

[gingerjon]

Just now, Dave T said:

Of course they could say that. But 12m ago they would have struggled to name a darts player.

I also dispute whether individuals necessarily create popularity in team sports. Most of the England cricket and RU teams could walk unmolested down any high street and yet those sports sell out their internationals all the time.

[The Masked Poster]

38 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well no. You claimed that pretty much every pub and bar in the world has a dart board. You're just blatantly wrong and are now stroppy. 

In reality, you mean one kind of pub.

I'm blatantly wrong because you say so? I absolutely stand by that claim, the vast majority (ie, not every single one) of pubs or local bars will have a dartboard, somewhere. I base this on being over 60 and visiting bars and pubs all over the uk and plenty of overseas. 

There's nothing stroppy about it, I just don't like people trying to tell me what I've experienced all my life to be wrong. 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

But the thing is that the number of people who just play a game of darts in the pub are participants, and this will be way way more than the number of people who play any form of RL. They obviously don't register themselves as "darts players" but they are participating in a game of darts. It requires little effort to have a game of darts in a pub with a friend, whereas to play any variation of RL, you have to go to the effort of joining a team, get kit etc etc. 

Do the 29 million (extrapolated) who say they are walkers register themselves as 'walkers'?

What about the 3 million who cycle for travel, are they registered as 'cyclists for travel'?

And where would the 13 million who take part in fitness activities even go to register themselves?

Maybe fewer people play darts than we think.

[unapologetic pedant]

Celeb endorsements should be mutually beneficial. Anything perceived as one-sided is probably doing more harm than good.

[The Masked Poster]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Do the 29 million (extrapolated) who say they are walkers register themselves as 'walkers'?

What about the 3 million who cycle for travel, are they registered as 'cyclists for travel'?

And where would the 13 million who take part in fitness activities even go to register themselves?

Maybe fewer people play darts than we think.

But that entirely proves the point. Walking is a mass participation thing, as is fishing or cycling. But you wouldn't argue that RL was bigger than fishing or walking as a pastime. 

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I'm blatantly wrong because you say so? I absolutely stand by that claim, the vast majority (ie, not every single one) of pubs or local bars will have a dartboard, somewhere. I base this on being over 60 and visiting bars and pubs all over the uk and plenty of overseas. 

There's nothing stroppy about it, I just don't like people trying to tell me what I've experienced all my life to be wrong. 

People are here telling you that they go to pubs and bars all over the place that don't have dart boards. That suggests your claim that pretty much every pub and bar in the world has a board is wrong. 

Maybe the bars and pubs you go to have dart boards, but that isn't necessarily representative of all pubs and bars. Sure, plenty local boozers do, but many many pubs are now food pubs, chains etc that don't, and town and city centre bars rarely have a board outside of the game bars that are emerging. 

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I also dispute whether individuals necessarily create popularity in team sports. Most of the England cricket and RU teams could walk unmolested down any high street and yet those sports sell out their internationals all the time.

I make the same point regularly, even when it comes to major football tournaments, I struggle to name a full England team or name their club etc. 

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

But that entirely proves the point. Walking is a mass participation thing, as is fishing or cycling. But you wouldn't argue that RL was bigger than fishing or walking as a pastime. 

Why would I say Rugby League is bigger than walking or fishing?

I am saying, according to the major uk survey on these things, that Rugby League has a higher participation rate than darts... a survey that includes pastimes as well as organised sports.

I didn't expect darts to have fewer participants, but it does.

[HawkMan]

Truth is this isn't really relevant to anything regards to boosting RL popularity or darts for that matter. Both are minor sports/ pastimes, Littler saying he likes RL isn't going to do anything for RL because if darts is smaller why should it matter. Most people who watch darts already have a strong loyalty to a favourite sport,  cricket,  or football or RU or RL ,that won't change because a dart player says he likes another sport. 

Now,  if a young up and coming Premier League footballer ,  Saka or Palmer, said he only plays football because of his talent,  but for relaxation he watches RL because that's infinitely better, that would be a game changer.  

Back in the day the game was given money by Sky to transform the game, that chance was wasted. IMG's involvement is a recognition of failure at the top to make the best use of RL's resources,  in popularity or participation. Have we really got to the point of getting all excited because an 18 yr old darts player likes RL thinking this'll rectify the situation.

Edited December 23, 2024 by HawkMan

[Dave T]

43 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Truth is this isn't really relevant to anything regards to boosting RL popularity or darts for that matter. Both are minor sports/ pastimes, Littler saying he likes RL isn't going to do anything for RL because if darts is smaller why should it matter. Most people who watch darts already have a strong loyalty to a favourite sport,  cricket,  or football or RU or RL ,that won't change because a dart player says he likes another sport. 

Now,  if a young up and coming Premier League footballer ,  Saka or Palmer, said he only plays football because of his talent,  but for relaxation he watches RL because that's infinitely better, that would be a game changer.  

Back in the day the game was given money by Sky to transform the game, that chance was wasted. IMG's involvement is a recognition of failure at the top to make the best use of RL's resources,  in popularity or participation. Have we really got to the point of getting all excited because an 18 yr old darts player likes RL thinking this'll rectify the situation.

We've regularly had major football stars laud RL. I agree with your point that it's not a major driver of interest, but nor was it when Wayne Rooney and his teammates used to sing the praises of SL.

But that's not to say we shouldn't push it. It creates stories, puts the sport in different places. That has to be key for us as we tend to speak to the same people over and over.

Edited December 23, 2024 by Dave T

[Damien]

49 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Truth is this isn't really relevant to anything regards to boosting RL popularity or darts for that matter. Both are minor sports/ pastimes, Littler saying he likes RL isn't going to do anything for RL because if darts is smaller why should it matter. Most people who watch darts already have a strong loyalty to a favourite sport,  cricket,  or football or RU or RL ,that won't change because a dart player says he likes another sport. 

Now,  if a young up and coming Premier League footballer ,  Saka or Palmer, said he only plays football because of his talent,  but for relaxation he watches RL because that's infinitely better, that would be a game changer.  

Back in the day the game was given money by Sky to transform the game, that chance was wasted. IMG's involvement is a recognition of failure at the top to make the best use of RL's resources,  in popularity or participation. Have we really got to the point of getting all excited because an 18 yr old darts player likes RL thinking this'll rectify the situation.

I don't think anyone thinks that one 18 years old Darts player liking RL changes much. What does is RL getting itself out there and outside its normal sphere more often than we have traditionally seen. Getting players out there and making them more mainstream is very much part of this, and I daresay what IMG mentioned previously.

Most of us have will have bemoaned the amount of times RL figures aren't on TV shows or programmes compared to people from others sports. Sure Darts may not be entirely mainstream per se but it's probably an easy win, gets plenty of viewers and publicity and getting more and more players on TV in whatever setting will help the sport.

Edited December 23, 2024 by Damien

[graveyard johnny]

some  threads on these boards have deteriorated  into ridiculous silly arguments over the years - this one is one of the best - from a bit of pr on tv to my mum has more friends than your mum (if you count facebook) - brilliant!

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

some  threads on these boards have deteriorated  into ridiculous silly arguments over the years - this one is one of the best - from a bit of pr on tv to my mum has more friends than your mum (if you count facebook) - brilliant!

I mean it's stayed entirely on topic with the exception of one post referring to an argument on another thread a while ago.

A thread about RL using darts to promote itself and the relative audiences that the sports command is absolutely all relevant.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

We've regularly had major football stars laud RL. I agree with your point that it's not a major driver of interest, but nor was it when Wayne Rooney and his teammates used to sing the praises of SL.

But that's not to say we shouldn't push it. It creates stories, puts the sport in different places. That has to be key for us as we tend to speak to the same people over and over.

Football stars praising and attending RL goes back years as well.

I think there's probably two useful debates to be had.

First, can RL 'use' darts? And I think the answer is that it mostly already is as much as it can, for the benefit of both.

Second, can RL 'use' Littler? He transcends darts so it really is a separate conversation. We had Steve Redgrave present a trophy, could Littler?

[Dullish Mood]

I’m going to start a new Leigh thread….

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Of course they could say that. But 12m ago they would have struggled to name a darts player.

And I'd guess they'd struggle to name a Union player now.

I think Michael Van Gerwen and Raymond BV are quite well known tbf, more so nationally than any RL player.

[graveyard johnny]

why do we keep making this comparison between the 2 sports? - one is played by slow old ale carts who spend too much time in the pub in front of crowds of 2 or 3 thousand -in the other, they throw darts 

[The Masked Poster]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

People are here telling you that they go to pubs and bars all over the place that don't have dart boards. That suggests your claim that pretty much every pub and bar in the world has a board is wrong. 

Maybe the bars and pubs you go to have dart boards, but that isn't necessarily representative of all pubs and bars. Sure, plenty local boozers do, but many many pubs are now food pubs, chains etc that don't, and town and city centre bars rarely have a board outside of the game bars that are emerging. 

Are they? Apart from you saying dartboards are disappearing from pubs I don't see it. And local boozers are still the lifeblood of the pub industry, city centre pubs/bars have always been a different beast, so dismissing them is silly.

Besides any of which, it still doesn't change the fact that Darts is a much bigger 'sport' than RL. Not a better one (no contest) but a bigger one.

But you can judge for yourself when the next SL season starts. See if there's mass viewership in pubs and clubs up and down the country. See how many people are even aware of it in comparison with the darts tournaments. 

[The Masked Poster]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Why would I say Rugby League is bigger than walking or fishing?

I am saying, according to the major uk survey on these things, that Rugby League has a higher participation rate than darts... a survey that includes pastimes as well as organised sports.

I didn't expect darts to have fewer participants, but it does.

Well we'll kindly agree to disagree and see where we are in the next 5 years or so, in terms of wider awareness. ATB 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Football stars praising and attending RL goes back years as well.

I think there's probably two useful debates to be had.

First, can RL 'use' darts? And I think the answer is that it mostly already is as much as it can, for the benefit of both.

Second, can RL 'use' Littler? He transcends darts so it really is a separate conversation. We had Steve Redgrave present a trophy, could Littler?

Changing the subject slightly, I can’t remember Redgrave presenting a trophy, was he a fan? I’d have had him down as a 100% Union man. 

[Dunbar]

22 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Well we'll kindly agree to disagree and see where we are in the next 5 years or so, in terms of wider awareness. ATB 

Sorry, what are we agreeing to disagree on, are you saying the Active Lives survey doesn't say what I am saying it does?