RL at the Darts

[Damien]

2 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Problem is SL viewers are the same people over and over throughout the season. Darts probably has more different eyeballs on it in a year than SL. The key word is " different " , darts is a casual viewers sport predominantly,  very few hard-core supporters who only watch darts and nowt else. Luke Littler is a phenomenon that spikes up the casual interest almost instantaneously   that'll continue until he's no longer  the young whippersnapper winning against the odds. Then the casual interest will drop until another comes along.

RL has a steady fan base , darts waxes and wanes, higher than RL in moments like now, lower at other times. Linking this with the thread about money and why baseball and soccer have huge amounts,  neither darts or RL has anywhere near enough fans, or potential subscribers for broadcasters or premium advertisers to throw vast sums at the respective sports.

I was going to reply disagreeing with you then thought about it and instead think you are right!

I think my wife is a case in point. The last 2 nights she has said is the Darts on and has wanted it on. Last Christmas the entire family got into watching it as the Luke Littler phenomenon developed. Its one of the rare times we all actually sit down and watch something together now. Sure it happens occasionally with other sports but there is normally some sort of connection and other family members aren't usually invested the same way. Darts is just so random on the face of it and has very obviously captured wider attention.

Edited December 28, 2024 by Damien

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Whether it’s a sport or not is debatable but also irrelevant. 

If it's irrelevant, you could compare rugby league to anything.  I hear Gavin and Stacey drew a lot of viewers at Christmas but there's no lesson to be learned for rugby league.

[JohnM]

Gladiators 2024 viewing figures - average 8.3 million. Sport or entertainment? Darts comes nowhere in comparison, nor does RL.

Of course, if RL is a Northern Sport for Northern People, we just need more Northern People.  Time for a dramatic increase in the birthrate in Warrington, Widnes, Whitehaven, Wigan, Wakefield etc .

I'd help if I could, but at my age, the spirit is willing but the flesh is ...well, you know....

Edited December 28, 2024 by JohnM

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, Griff said:

If it's irrelevant, you could compare rugby league to anything.  I hear Gavin and Stacey drew a lot of viewers at Christmas but there's no lesson to be learned for rugby league.

That’s just arguing for argument’s sake. 

[Griff]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That’s just arguing for argument’s sake. 

To be fair, the whole "darts is/isn't bigger than Rugby League" is arguing for arguing's sake.

But someone else started that debate.  I'm just contributing to it.

[The Masked Poster]

55 minutes ago, Griff said:

If it's irrelevant, you could compare rugby league to anything.  I hear Gavin and Stacey drew a lot of viewers at Christmas but there's no lesson to be learned for rugby league.

But we wouldn't argue that RL was more popular than Gavin & Stacey based on the argument that nobody goes to a stadium every week to watch it. Yet that seems to be the logic on here. 

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

But we wouldn't argue that RL was more popular than Gavin & Stacey based on the argument that nobody goes to a stadium every week to watch it. Yet that seems to be the logic on here. 

But is that not the strength of darts and snooker?  People watch the big tournaments and then don't bother for the rest of the year.  Who watches tennis outside Wimbledon fortnight ?  Relatively few.

[Damien]

Anyhow Wolfie at the Darts:

 

[Dave T]

4 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Problem is SL viewers are the same people over and over throughout the season. Darts probably has more different eyeballs on it in a year than SL. The key word is " different " , darts is a casual viewers sport predominantly,  very few hard-core supporters who only watch darts and nowt else. Luke Littler is a phenomenon that spikes up the casual interest almost instantaneously   that'll continue until he's no longer  the young whippersnapper winning against the odds. Then the casual interest will drop until another comes along.

RL has a steady fan base , darts waxes and wanes, higher than RL in moments like now, lower at other times. Linking this with the thread about money and why baseball and soccer have huge amounts,  neither darts or RL has anywhere near enough fans, or potential subscribers for broadcasters or premium advertisers to throw vast sums at the respective sports.

If we talk RL in the UK and not limit it to SL, then we can see that we aren't just attracting the same people over and over.

We get c150-200k for main SS live games, we get c500-750k for BBC cup games and we get 1-2m for major England games on the BBC.

It isn't just the same 150k that are watching on Sky each week, I'm sure even here we don't all watch every game. 

We have a population in the millions who will watch RL on TV, and a few hundred thousand who will attend live RL events too.

[Dave T]

Is there a worldwide darts governing body, or is everything basically just run by the pdc? Does each cou try have their own associations?

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If we talk RL in the UK and not limit it to SL, then we can see that we aren't just attracting the same people over and over.

We get c150-200k for main SS live games, we get c500-750k for BBC cup games and we get 1-2m for major England games on the BBC.

It isn't just the same 150k that are watching on Sky each week, I'm sure even here we don't all watch every game. 

We have a population in the millions who will watch RL on TV, and a few hundred thousand who will attend live RL events too.

And you reminded me why I was going to disagree as per my previous post .

I agree with all this. Even at a club level I wouldn't be surprised if my club, Wigan had say 25,000 fans who may go over the course of a season. Sure some may, for whatever and often valid reasons, go to one game but its certainly not just the same fans going to every game.

[gingerjon]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Is there a worldwide darts governing body, or is everything basically just run by the pdc? Does each cou try have their own associations?

There is a separate world governing body that claims the heritage of the old BDO. It is, I think, the coordinator of the foundations that are recognised as governing bodies in each country.

The PDC runs the profit making professional tours.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

Gladiators 2024 viewing figures - average 8.3 million. Sport or entertainment? 

If the individual games had governing bodies organising them, then you could possibly consider it sport.

[Griff]

27 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

If the individual games had governing bodies organising them, then you could possibly consider it sport.

It is true that, to be recognised as a sport in the UK, you need a governing body, some sort of infrastructure, a coaching structure - amongst other things.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Anyhow Wolfie at the Darts:

 

Can’t we get on with debating whether rugby league is bigger than Gavin & Stacey? 

[Just Browny]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Anyhow Wolfie at the Darts:

 

No sign of this fella though? Typical useless RFL.

[Click]

5 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

But you are the silly one. Please tell me exactly what impact a midlands club would have on the game. An area that has even less appetite for the game than London. What planet are you on? I bet you couldn’t find a single businessman in the world who’d think the idea of setting up a franchise in the West Midlands was remotely viable and at SL level it is a business.

Just because you have a pipe dream doesn’t mean the rest of the game has to fund it or even want it. Despite what many seem to believe this forum does not represent the majority of RL fans and never has. It just a virtual echo chamber for the eternally deluded at times.

As for London’s impact, again, a handful of half decent players in forty years. That doesn’t account to anywhere near enough to warrant the time, effort and hype invested. 
 

As for MM, if he didn’t exist do you not think Trinity couldn’t find another marquee signing. The only reason they went for MM was availability and that Powell was the coach who made him.
 

Isn’t it obvious what a failure London are when literally none of the lean pickings actually played there careers in London. Take the rose tinted specs off.

The game has invested nothing in London for the gains they have got from it. 

I don't know why the idea of people outside of Northern England enjoying the game hurts you so much, the game has been entrenched in the North for 100 years and what has it done? It has gotten smaller in this country.

I don't know why you're talking about the make up of this forum's members - it hasn't exactly been pro-expansion, there is plenty of fans on here, just like yourself that seemingly are happy with the current outlook of the sport in this country.

I'm glad you have gone from "zero impact" to "small impact" which is quite an increase from your original statement. 

But yes, lets keep focusing everyones efforts on a small corridor and pretend no one outside it could possibly enjoy the sport.

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

But we wouldn't argue that RL was more popular than Gavin & Stacey based on the argument that nobody goes to a stadium every week to watch it. Yet that seems to be the logic on here. 

If anyone is interested, I have checked the Active Lives survey data and there is no participation data for Gavin and Stacey.

[The Masked Poster]

49 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If anyone is interested, I have checked the Active Lives survey data and there is no participation data for Gavin and Stacey.

Which proves that RL is more popular than Gavin and Stacey. Q.E and D. 

[The Masked Poster]

4 hours ago, Griff said:

But is that not the strength of darts and snooker?  People watch the big tournaments and then don't bother for the rest of the year.  Who watches tennis outside Wimbledon fortnight ?  Relatively few.

Not outside Wimbledon perhaps, I'd agree. But Tennis is still played all over the world regardless. The leading players are world famous and attracts top class sponsors. 

And while snooker has struggled a bit in recent years in terms of profile, it still has people playing all over the country regardless of whether there's a big tournament going on. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

Not outside Wimbledon perhaps, I'd agree. But Tennis is still played all over the world regardless. The leading players are world famous and attracts top class sponsors. 

And while snooker has struggled a bit in recent years in terms of profile, it still has people playing all over the country regardless of whether there's a big tournament going on. 

How many people play snooker in snooker clubs though, or pubs with snooker tables which are few and far between these days. I’d wager it’s a lot less people than play darts or even cribbage. Is rugby league bigger than Cribbage? 

[HawkMan]

Let's cut through the confusion here. How big is RL? Well soccer's fans only attend for fights and are brainwashed by Sky, so that sport is disqualified. Yawnion fans are the prawn sandwich and Bollinger brigade , so they're disqualified. Darts fans are drunks who just go for a booze up,so they're out. Cricket fans just want a snooze in the sun so not really fans. That leaves RL as the biggest sport with proper fans. Why isn't it globally dominant then? Obviously because of a conspiracy perpetrated by the CIA , Mossad,  The KGB, and Al Qaeda. Hope that clears things up.

Edited December 28, 2024 by HawkMan

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

How many people play snooker in snooker clubs though, or pubs with snooker tables which are few and far between these days. I’d wager it’s a lot less people than play darts or even cribbage. Is rugby league bigger than Cribbage? 

You're quite right there, snooker tables in pubs is much less common than it once was. But snooker does have the advantage of not being geographically limited. 

Cribbage is #1

[Dunbar]

12 hours ago, Eddie said:

How many people play snooker in snooker clubs though, or pubs with snooker tables which are few and far between these days. I’d wager it’s a lot less people than play darts or even cribbage. Is rugby league bigger than Cribbage? 

Participation data shows that snooker = 19,300 (darts was 11,300 and RL 55,800)

Pool is at 19,700.

This is adults (aged 16+) who have taken part in the activity at least twice in the last 28 days.

[gingerjon]

49 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Participation data shows that snooker = 19,300 (darts was 11,300 and RL 55,800)

Pool is at 19,700.

This is adults (aged 16+) who have taken part in the activity at least twice in the last 28 days.

Surprised to see pool lower than snooker.

I will therefore disregard the data in favour of my own pre-established view on the matter.