RL at the Darts

[HawkMan]

13 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

When is the darts on Amazon or Netflix?

Read the article that Bigbaldnmad gave a link to, previous page.

Hearn wants £45 a year next TV deal,  Amazon and Netflix interested,  Sky say they'll go to 25m, but as darts is the 2nd best viewership  on Sky after football,  presumably there's a battle ahead.

Edited December 24, 2024 by HawkMan

[dkw]

As ever the desperation by rugby league "fans" to play our game down is mind blowing....

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, The Masked Poster said:

What we are disagreeing on is that you are happy to take that survey at face value and extrapolate from it that darts is less popular and has less participation than Rugby League. That is absolutely your right to have that opinion. 
I have a different view on things and won't be changing it, even if the whole forum tells me that RL is the more popular game. Which is where I'll leave it.

The funny thing is that when I started to read this thread, I went to the survey to get some data because I also thought that darts would have a higher participation rate than Rugby League and I wanted to post some facts to back up people's perceptions.

The fact it came in considerably lower did surprise me but that is the point about facts, you are supposed to change your perceptions when presented with evidence, not change (or ignore) the evidence to preserve your perceptions. 

[Dave T]

18 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I meant that almost every regular pub/bar across the world has a dartboard yes. Not every single pub and certainly countries that don't have pubs. 
 

What is weird though, is your insistence that darts is a relatively obscure pastime spotted in a few random local pubs here and there. 

So not only are you saying you didn't mean what you said, you are now claiming I've said things that I haven't. 

You've really had a shocker on this thread mate.

[Damien]

13 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Read the article that Bigbaldnmad gave a link to, previous page.

Hearn wants £45 a year next TV deal,  Amazon and Netflix interested,  Sky say they'll go to 25m, but as darts is the 2nd best viewership  on Sky after football,  presumably there's a battle ahead.

You can't compare it to what someone hopes to get. Darts gets £12 million a year, that's the figure we can use as a comparison to RL. So Darts gets about half of what RL gets.

Edited December 24, 2024 by Damien

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

I think the majority of blokes I know aged 20-50 would know who MVG is, and few would be able to name a current rugby league player. Comparing with a team isn’t realistic. 

It is realistic in the context of this discussion though because what is at the heart of the discussion is how popular the two sports are and so you have to compare the various elements.

You can say to someone 'name a Rugby League player' and that can be compared to 'name a darts player' but so can 'name a Rugby League team' as it will also show awareness of the sport.

When you ask a Rugby League fan who they support, how many would name a player in response to that question?

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Presumably Amazon and Netflix are interested in taking darts off Sky because they think it'll increase their portfolio gain subscribers , advertising revenue etc. Someone at their HQ should be saying, " hang on a mo, RL is bigger let's grab that, get those numbers to us."

But they're not, either the metrics tell them that Darts is a better bet, or their sports acquisition team are morons.

Amazon and Netflix don't cover plenty of sports. 

[Tommygilf]

56 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is, but as per a previous post, they outperform NFL, F1, Tennis for Sky Sports viewers, but we don't accept that as the overruling thing that claims that darts is bigger, but people are happy to dismiss all the other things for RL.

I don't think it is just that though.

People's social media feeds, the sport bibles etc. of this world, will have Darts on them in a semi regular way that they just don't have for RL content.

I think Darts is a particular point of contention with RL fans because in lots of ways it's a similar audience demographic, but clearly much more national, indeed international, in scope.

[HawkMan]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Amazon and Netflix don't cover plenty of sports. 

All the more reason to go for RL over darts, low hanging fruit as they say.  Costs less to acquire,  Sky only pay 21.5m a year,  if Hearn really wants 45m for his minor pub game that is nowhere near as popular as RL tell him to stuff it. Maybe that is exactly what they'll do, we wait and see.

If darts and RL and let's add Yawnion, were commodities on the stock market, which would you invest in? Aim-  buy low sell high, which is on an upwards trajectory?  Not Yawnion obviously,  RL or darts?

 

 

[Dave T]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

I don't think it is just that though.

People's social media feeds, the sport bibles etc. of this world, will have Darts on them in a semi regular way that they just don't have for RL content.

I think Darts is a particular point of contention with RL fans because in lots of ways it's a similar audience demographic, but clearly much more national, indeed international, in scope.

That's fine though, and people aren't arguing that darts isn't very successful at the TV and social media elements. In fact I made the same point earlier in this thread but then people make up I've been critical of darts.

Darts is perfect, made for TV entertainment. And good luck to them, I'm a fan (playing and watching). 

But I won't ignore the scale of RL (worldwide) and dismiss the stats as wrong when they don't support my view.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

All the more reason to go for RL over darts, low hanging fruit as they say.  Costs less to acquire,  Sky only pay 21.5m a year,  if Hearn really wants 45m for his minor pub game that is nowhere near as popular as RL tell him to stuff it. Maybe that is exactly what they'll do, we wait and see.

If darts and RL and let's add Yawnion, were commodities on the stock market, which would you invest in? Aim-  buy low sell high, which is on an upwards trajectory?  Not Yawnion obviously,  RL or darts?

 

 

Have you never read the articles when RL are negotiating a tv deal?

Fair play to the PDC if they can negotiate a bigger deal, but I'll be very surprised if they move away from the platform Sky gives them, and if they double the deal this time, that seems a great deal. 

[Just Browny]

Remarkable thread. What we should always try to remember is that what any one of us and our friends likes does not represent everyone. So just because me and my three mates play darts in a small number of flat roof pubs within walking distance, that doesn't mean everyone does and that all pubs are the same. Similarly, just because you and your mates don't like the RL commentary or think there were better prop forwards in the 70s, it doesn't mean RL is dying.

This is a good time of year to remember that people like different things as you consult the TV guide and try to work out who is creating the demand for Mrs Brown's Boys.

Anyway:

- Darts and RL are very different games. Demand for one does not reduce demand for the other. A young person choosing to play darts can also play RL.

- It is nice to have cross-promotion between the sports (as I highlighted earlier) but we don't need to get Luke Humphries presenting the Challenge Cup. It looks sad and needy to sponge off the success of another sport, we should be proud of our own one.

[Dullish Mood]

9 hours ago, Dave T said:

You'll need to provide sources for your claims really.

Uk participation has been shown to be in RL's favour, massively.

Darts has some good peaks, but more people are watching RL each week both in grounds and on TV.

And RL tv deals absolutely dwarf darts deals.

And if we want to talk about how much players get, we really should look at the £30m or so players earn in Europe per year, and the c£120m players are earning in the NRL.

 

What on Earth are you talking about mate?  Seriously can’t make sense of what you’ve just posted.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Dullish Mood said:

What on Earth are you talking about mate?  Seriously can’t make sense of what you’ve just posted.

Cool, if the number are too complicated for you that's fine, there are some pics on the kit thread!

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Remarkable thread. What we should always try to remember is that what any one of us and our friends likes does not represent everyone. So just because me and my three mates play darts in a small number of flat roof pubs within walking distance, that doesn't mean everyone does and that all pubs are the same. Similarly, just because you and your mates don't like the RL commentary or think there were better prop forwards in the 70s, it doesn't mean RL is dying.

This is a good time of year to remember that people like different things as you consult the TV guide and try to work out who is creating the demand for Mrs Brown's Boys.

Anyway:

- Darts and RL are very different games. Demand for one does not reduce demand for the other. A young person choosing to play darts can also play RL.

- It is nice to have cross-promotion between the sports (as I highlighted earlier) but we don't need to get Luke Humphries presenting the Challenge Cup. It looks sad and needy to sponge off the success of another sport, we should be proud of our own one.

I agree with all this and particularly your last paragraph. I know someone had mentioned Steve Redgrave earlier too and I thought the same when he presented the trophy. It does come across as desperate and needy to me. Sure do all the cross promotional stuff but presenting tropies is a strict no no for me

 

[Dunbar]

One area where darts has a clear advantage over Rugby League is social media reach.

Across 4 of the main social channels (YouTube, Instagram, Twitter/X and Facebook), the Super League has 770,000 followers (RFL and Super League combined 1.124 million).  

PDC Darts has over 3 million followers across these 4 platforms.

Obviously there will be a layer underneath this for individual Rugby League clubs and players but the same will be true for darts players as well.

[Kirmonds pouch]

23 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Darts may not be as big overall but it is has a better geographical awareness.....might be mutually beneficial 

There is of course the slight concern around 'perceptions' for both sports and having them linked might re-enforce that (flatcaps, pigeon fancying, tripe eating etc)

So what I’m proud of that heritage. Funny how you never mention the pearly king and queens, or any of the other supposedly quirky regional oddities. 
 

Stop being embarrassed about being northern and embrace it. RL is a northern game, I’m happy it is, it’s special and belongs to us. We don’t need to expand we need to consolidate.

[Kirmonds pouch]

12 minutes ago, Dullish Mood said:

What on Earth are you talking about mate?  Seriously can’t make sense of what you’ve just posted.

Now you know how we feel about you.

[JohnM]

In my opinion, darts isn't a sport....it's show business. Comparing it with ours is not "like with like".

As for it's TV popularity: I'm a Celebrity, Strictly Come Dancing, X Factor, BGT have all finished their runs, so what else is there for an easy watch? It's winter, it's dark, it's cold, it wet. Ideal conditions for decent viewing figures.

 

[The Masked Poster]

47 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Remarkable thread. What we should always try to remember is that what any one of us and our friends likes does not represent everyone. So just because me and my three mates play darts in a small number of flat roof pubs within walking distance, that doesn't mean everyone does and that all pubs are the same. Similarly, just because you and your mates don't like the RL commentary or think there were better prop forwards in the 70s, it doesn't mean RL is dying.

This is a good time of year to remember that people like different things as you consult the TV guide and try to work out who is creating the demand for Mrs Brown's Boys.

Anyway:

- Darts and RL are very different games. Demand for one does not reduce demand for the other. A young person choosing to play darts can also play RL.

- It is nice to have cross-promotion between the sports (as I highlighted earlier) but we don't need to get Luke Humphries presenting the Challenge Cup. It looks sad and needy to sponge off the success of another sport, we should be proud of our own one.

If I was basing things on "me and my mates", I would have concluded that RL was massive, because that's the game most of us have watched for umpteen years. 

But I aren't, I'm basing it on the fact that darts is way more widespread than RL and has more people participating in it, however casual that may be. That's not "doing the game down" it's acknowledging reality. If the people on here with a cult like mentality can't accept this, that's not my problem. (Not aimed at you)

But anyway, the proof will be in the pudding when the SL coverage blows this away and the next Sky deal goes up. 

[The Masked Poster]

24 minutes ago, JohnM said:

In my opinion, darts isn't a sport....it's show business. Comparing it with ours is not "like with like".

As for it's TV popularity: I'm a Celebrity, Strictly Come Dancing, X Factor, BGT have all finished their runs, so what else is there for an easy watch? It's winter, it's dark, it's cold, it wet. Ideal conditions for decent viewing figures.

 

It's dark cold and wet when SL kicks off, why aren't the viewing figures similar? 

[JohnM]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

It's dark cold and wet when SL kicks off, why aren't the viewing figures similar? 

Because it's not a valid comparison.

[Dave T]

49 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

One area where darts has a clear advantage over Rugby League is social media reach.

Across 4 of the main social channels (YouTube, Instagram, Twitter/X and Facebook), the Super League has 770,000 followers (RFL and Super League combined 1.124 million).  

PDC Darts has over 3 million followers across these 4 platforms.

Obviously there will be a layer underneath this for individual Rugby League clubs and players but the same will be true for darts players as well.

I did see something about last years final reaching something like 27m on SM. I don't know the stats behind that but it is staggering. Like I say, it's pretty much a perfect sport for TV/video clips.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I did see something about last years final reaching something like 27m on SM. I don't know the stats behind that but it is staggering. Like I say, it's pretty much a perfect sport for TV/video clips.

It is.  I don't watch a full darts match often - maybe the world's final - but I have watched that 'perfect' leg, where Michael Van Gerwen misses D12 for a nine-darter, and then Michael Smith hits his own 9 darter, quite a few times when it pops up on social media.

Rugby League tries, spectacular finishes and bit hits should fit the same criteria though.

[Click]

2 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

So what I’m proud of that heritage. Funny how you never mention the pearly king and queens, or any of the other supposedly quirky regional oddities. 
 

Stop being embarrassed about being northern and embrace it. RL is a northern game, I’m happy it is, it’s special and belongs to us. We don’t need to expand we need to consolidate.

Always nice to be reminded I'm an outsider to the sport in .... *checks title*

RL at the darts.