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1 hour ago, meast said:

Why shouldn't they though? they've earned the right on the field, not through the banks.

That's what used to make the competition interesting, now it's a case of which 2 of Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG will contest the final.

I’m not arguing Malmo didn’t win their place in the final by right.

Or that the older format had sporting merit and created a more level playing field.

What I did dispute though is that older format was a stronger competition than the newer format.

By cannibalising the old UEFA cup of entrants, the Champions League has many more hurdles from Europe’s stronger leagues to bypass to get to the final.  That was my argument.

 

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22 minutes ago, meast said:

Added to that, Staveley MW spent loads on their ground, so they could boast they had the best ground in the NCEL, which, to be fair, they probably do, they possibly thought they had a squad capable of competing for promotion to the NPLE but when their manager and some of their better players left, they struggled for results and were floundering in mid table.

They then requested voluntary relegation as their chairman bemoaned the fact that they couldn't compete financially and had no money to bring decent standard of player in, conveniently forgetting that they'd spent a lot on their facilities.

The league pandered to their whim, so basically, rather than battling away and doing their best with the players they do have available (they run a reserves and academy sides) like Athersley, they just gave up and got the league to bail them out to avoid struggling on the field, which hasn't gone down well with fans of other clubs.

They've also promoted Horbury Town and Beverley Town despite them having very basic facilites but denying clubs like Retford and Thorne who have got some good facilities.

It really does get into little men in blazers wanting their bit of power, doesn't it?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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59 minutes ago, meast said:

The FA Cup final is now just a sideshow game, just another game between the greedy monied clubs and their fans.

It's now shunted to a Saturday tea time slot before the league season is finished and holds very little interest for most fans outside of the TV show clubs' fans.

I could list most of the cup finals and scorers etc growing up until 10-15 years ago, I wasn't alone.

Cup final day was THE day, the big day for every football fan and non fans all over the country, we all know the history of it, the build up, the whole day taken up by it, that part of people's lives has gone now.

I can't remember the last time I watched the FA Cup final or tell you who has won the last 10-15.

Do you not think that’s because the amount of televised football matches has dramatically increased that the specialness of the FA Cup has declined rather than the timeslot?

 

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58 minutes ago, meast said:

That's your opinion, I find constantly tapping the ball around your own half absolutely dreadful.

It will have support as those clubs have billions of supporters worldwide, to the general football fan in the UK it's nothing more than a TV show for those billions around the world, as is the PL and "champions" league.

It has support because it’s the best players in the world playing the best standard of football in the world.

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10 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

It has support because it’s the best players in the world playing the best standard of football in the world.

Again, that's just opinion.

It attracts some of the best players and coaches due to amount of money sloshing around, I prefer the German league, the football is more entertaining, and the model is a whole lot better, the top players in Germany will always leave for the PL because of the amount of money they and their agents can make.

There's also lots of really gash players who are no better than young English players but who just cost less in wages, wages in which they won't be anywhere near earning in any other league.

The whole "best league in the world" thing is just subjective and usually just used to as hyperbole.

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48 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’m not arguing Malmo didn’t win their place in the final by right.

Or that the older format had sporting merit and created a more level playing field.

What I did dispute though is that older format was a stronger competition than the newer format.

By cannibalising the old UEFA cup of entrants, the Champions League has many more hurdles from Europe’s stronger leagues to bypass to get to the final.  That was my argument.

 

Sport should always be about sporting merit but since the introduction of the PL and then the CL it isn't, very few teams outside the rich elite can even hope to win the European cup, certainly, provincial towns and cities from Sweden, Belgium, Germany, etc will never be in a position to compete unless they too receive state funded billions pumped into them.

That's why I'd argue that the Europa and Conference leagues are far better sporting competitions.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, meast said:
1 minute ago, meast said:

Sport should always be about sporting merit but since the introduction of the PL and then the CL it isn't, very few teams outside the rich elite can even hope to win the European cup, certainly, provincial towns and cities from Sweden, Belgium, Germany, etc will never be in a position to compete unless they too receive state funded billions pumped into them.

That's why I'd argue that the Europa and Conference leagues are far better sporting competitions.

Liverpool aren’t state funded.

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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48 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Do you not think that’s because the amount of televised football matches has dramatically increased that the specialness of the FA Cup has declined rather than the timeslot?

 

I think everything surrounding the rich elite powers at top level football has totally ruined football as it used to be, all for more money and power, there's very little about the English game that I like now, apart from Non League, but even that is now becoming money oriented.

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1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Liverpool aren’t state funded.

No, but they are owned and funded by a massive corporation with more money and power than a lot of states.

Liverpool aren't the poor relations that their fans claim to be, they have been backed as much as the other US, Russia, Abu Dhabi, billionaires back their clubs.

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7 minutes ago, meast said:

Again, that's just opinion.

It attracts some of the best players and coaches due to amount of money sloshing around, I prefer the German league, the football is more entertaining, and the model is a whole lot better, the top players in Germany will always leave for the PL because of the amount of money they and their agents can make.

There's also lots of really gash players who are no better than young English players but who just cost less in wages, wages in which they won't be anywhere near earning in any other league.

The whole "best league in the world" thing is just subjective and usually just used to as hyperbole.

The Bundesliga competition is completely skewed by the domination of Bayern Munich though which undercuts your argument quite a lot.

I can see the appeal in terms of reducing the cost for the fan, but it’s a structure that also locks in a certain hierarchy within that country’s top flight.  Basically without distorting what you like, it will be very hard for any German club to mount a consistent assault on Bayern.

I’ve followed the Bundesliga since childhood and have attended matches there prior to it’s more recent adoption by football fans in the U.K.  It’s a mixed bag over there for me.

 

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6 minutes ago, meast said:

No, but they are owned and funded by a massive corporation with more money and power than a lot of states.

Liverpool aren't the poor relations that their fans claim to be, they have been backed as much as the other US, Russia, Abu Dhabi, billionaires back their clubs.

What’s happened at Liverpool is that FSG have said that the club must wash its own face in terms of living within its means and basically spending what is earned.

I think you’re mistaking the effect of wisely investing prize money, reinvesting money from player sales, investing in training, stadium and youth facilities while capitalising on a large global fanbase earned through success on the field in previous eras.

Where they have been successful is combining all these factors to achieve success on the pitch combined with great recruitment in terms of manager and players.

There have been plenty of missteps along the way, but you have to give credit where credit is due they have achieved success on the pitch and acted wisely (in the main) off it.

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No league will find the right balance, but the German model with it's 50+1 rule works pretty well, obviously Bayern and RBL, with their multi billions main owners and to a lesser extent Wolfsburg, Leverkusen will generally have a financial advantage, but generally the ownership model is a lot better than the 1+0 we have in the UK.

The fan experience is far, far better too.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, meast said:

No league will find the right balance, but the German model with it's 50+1 rule works pretty well, obviously Bayern and RBL, with their multi billions main owners and to a lesser extent Wolfsburg, Leverkusen will generally have a financial advantage, but generally the ownership model is a lot better than the 1+0 we have in the UK.

The fan experience is far, far better too.

There’s not finding the right balance and there’s having one team monopolising their competition for the best part of what 10-15 years - maybe longer if you want to go back to Der Kaiser!

I don’t think you can escape that as much as you want to espouse the virtues of their model there are drawbacks and having the same champion every year hoovering up the domestic club talent is significant.

I think there are definite positives and I would argue the advantages are also true of the organisation of the wider German society.

 

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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14 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

What’s happened at Liverpool is that FSG have said that the club must wash its own face in terms of living within its means and basically spending what is earned.

I think you’re mistaking the effect of wisely investing prize money, reinvesting money from player sales, investing in training, stadium and youth facilities while capitalising on a large global fanbase earned through success on the field in previous eras.

Where they have been successful is combining all these factors to achieve success on the pitch combined with great recruitment in terms of manager and players.

There have been plenty of missteps along the way, but you have to give credit where credit is due they have achieved success on the pitch and acted wisely (in the main) off it.

Exactly, you're just Man United with a more likeable face! 😉

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly, you're just Man United with a more likeable face! 😉

Haha!  Oh nooo!

I do think success moves in cycles and eventually all good teams grow old together and need replacing en masse which is not easily done.

I’m totally biased, but I actually hope the Liverpool model offers hope you can still achieve success if things are done properly without needing to pump in billions first.

Theres many things that weren’t done right at Liverpool though including the European Super League fiasco.

I actually would like more teams to have their fair shot without the risk of being financially crippled afterwards.  I don’t have the answers there though.

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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1 minute ago, Niels said:

Did you see the city game today? 

I think that both city and Liverpool will feel it could have been better but could easily have been worse.

 

Yes, a rollercoaster of emotions for both sets of fans especially with the penalty miss.

The four point gap essentially takes the goal difference out of the equation.

It comes down to whether Liverpool can win both games while City drop points at home to Villa.

I’d much rather be in Man City’s position and it’s probable that Liverpool will be weakened for the game with Southampton.

While it’s still possible though…

 

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21 minutes ago, DavidM said:

You’d think Everton had 10 men sent off and one still out there 

I said at the time Everton could well regret not going for it more in the Watford game. If they had I think they’d be safe now. 

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12 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

I said at the time Everton could well regret not going for it more in the Watford game. If they had I think they’d be safe now. 

We fall into the trap of ‘there’s another game to fall back on ‘ . Soon there won’t be . Added to the fact of being largely rubbish 

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3 minutes ago, DavidM said:

We fall into the trap of ‘there’s another game to fall back on ‘ . Soon there won’t be . Added to the fact of being largely rubbish 

Absolutely but it came on the back of the great Chelsea and Leicester results. They really should gone for the kill in a game against an already relegated Watford. Now it really is up in the air and anyone of those three teams could go down. 

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14 minutes ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

Stockport County clinched promotion to the EFL today , in front of 10000+ fans , I think they had 10000+ at their last home game as well .

It is incredible the increase in support that so many clubs are seeing across the board. I have a memory of going to see Stockport 'back in the day' and there being well under 3,000 there for a Football League match.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Werder win 2-0 and, with that, book their (our) return to the Bundesliga.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It is incredible the increase in support that so many clubs are seeing across the board. I have a memory of going to see Stockport 'back in the day' and there being well under 3,000 there for a Football League match.

I can remember back in the mid to late 80s . before they went on their good run to the second tier , anything over 2500 would be a good crowd .

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8 minutes ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

I can remember back in the mid to late 80s . before they went on their good run to the second tier , anything over 2500 would be a good crowd .

Yes - this would be c.1987. 1988 at a push.

I've just checked and their average this season is their highest for 20 years.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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