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I still think the league over 38 games or whatever is the thing . I have little knowledge or care for the Champions League tbn but it seems mainly a bloated , sponsor driven cash machine until very near the end when football gets involved and it gets interesting . 

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1 minute ago, Josef K said:

There are just too many games. 

Yes, and in particular the tournament to decide who is the champion of Europe is being increasingly devised to cement the position of the old rich clubs in a deal brokered with the nouveau rich clubs.

Almost half the eastern continent is sidelined and we lack a true competition as such with a level playing field where new champions can emerge.

No question about it there’s a compromise being made whereby certain clubs want access every year and almost guaranteed progression. 

 

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2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Tends to separate the wheat from the chaff, whereas the older format allowed ‘powerhouses’ like Malmo to reach the final.

 

Did you think that was more interesting though? I know you are a keen admirer of the European game so I'd be interested what you think.

I agree Malmo were very limited but I used to like the unusual teams getting to the finals.

 

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1 hour ago, Niels said:

Did you think that was more interesting though? I know you are a keen admirer of the European game so I'd be interested what you think.

I agree Malmo were very limited but I used to like the unusual teams getting to the finals.

 

There was more competitive diversity and teams like Steau Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade, Dynamo Kyiv et al from the east represented a real threat.

The stockpiling of talent by the mainly Western European clubs had not rapidly accelerated so there was a more even spread across the continent and the world of good players.

I liked the European Cup, the UEFA Cup and the Cup Winner’s Cup - there’s was a certain sporting purity about it that is lost today since the competitions were cannibalised by UEFA.

The Champions League final stages have now eclipsed international football as the high watermark of football, but the competition is plagued by the motives around its design and the power of the leading clubs.

Ultimately, I don’t think turning the clock back is the answer though.

 

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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13 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

There was more competitive diversity and teams like Steau Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade, Dynamo Kyiv et al from the east represented a real threat.

The stockpiling of talent by the mainly Western European clubs had not rapidly accelerated so there was a more even spread across the continent and the world of good players.

I liked the European Cup, the UEFA Cup and the Cup Winner’s Cup - there’s was a certain sporting purity about it that is lost today since the competitions were cannibalised by UEFA.

The Champions League final stages have now eclipsed international football as the high watermark of football, but the competition is plagued by the motives around its design and the power of the leading clubs.

Ultimately, I don’t think turning the clock back is the answer though.

 

Thanks. I noticed there are a couple of books on Kindle about the Cup Winners cup and UEFA cup.

I think whatever the format the smaller and medium nations would still have no chance of winning now. 

The premier league has changed also. Now the top two are winning nearly all their games during the run in each year.

 

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For some clubs like City and Chelsea, who even their most one eyed fans can see have been bankrolled to multiple League titles, the Champions League certainly feels like the elite of the elite whereas the League almost is taken as a given; good to win, but you aren't proving anything to anyone. The CL still has that elusive rarity, and ultimately it means coming up against some similarly resourced clubs in the latter stages too.

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2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

If Liverpool win nothing more this year, coming second in the League and losing the FA Cup and Champions League finals, is this year a failure?

To be in the top two in all four competitions they competed in is a huge achievement. On that basis a success. However, to only win one of those would be disappointing having done the hard work to get to that situation. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

For some clubs like City and Chelsea, who even their most one eyed fans can see have been bankrolled to multiple League titles, the Champions League certainly feels like the elite of the elite whereas the League almost is taken as a given; good to win, but you aren't proving anything to anyone. The CL still has that elusive rarity, and ultimately it means coming up against some similarly resourced clubs in the latter stages too.

This post did make me check the recent titles as a reminder.

I can see now why Liverpool fans say Europe is the real title to win. I had forgotten.

(I do actually think the Premier League title is the more challenging title to claim - not necessarily the highest 'quality' but then sport isn't about artistic impression - because it is such a slog with so many banana skins on the way.)

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

If Liverpool win nothing more this year, coming second in the League and losing the FA Cup and Champions League finals, is this year a failure?

No.

Challenging for the title and reaching the Champions League final is mission accomplished really.

When you compare net spend of all the clubs in the league then Liverpool if anything are overachieving due to great management and recruitment.

Obviously you want to win things, but declaring it a failure is hyperbole.

 

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34 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

 

(I do actually think the Premier League title is the more challenging title to claim - not necessarily the highest 'quality' but then sport isn't about artistic impression - because it is such a slog with so many banana skins on the way.)

Imo, if Glasgow Rangers win the Europa League it's a greater achievement than winning the SPL.

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13 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

When you compare net spend of all the clubs in the league then Liverpool if anything are overachieving due to great management and recruitment.

I can think of one club where the exact opposite of all those points applies 

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The annual 'non league clubs put out terse statements that fall just shy of calling the FA bent' time has arrived.

It's Step 3-6 allocation time.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I remember when i was at school the FA Cup final used to be huge, from the buildup in the morning on children’s TV right through to KO. It’ll be exciting for both sets of fans making their way to Wembley but im  more looking forward to watching the Sheff Utd vs Forest, Mansfield vs Northampton in the play offs. Then hear how York City go on against Brackley. 

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50 minutes ago, Josef K said:

I remember when i was at school the FA Cup final used to be huge, from the buildup in the morning on children’s TV right through to KO. It’ll be exciting for both sets of fans making their way to Wembley but im  more looking forward to watching the Sheff Utd vs Forest, Mansfield vs Northampton in the play offs. Then hear how York City go on against Brackley. 

Given that York supporters trashed their own stadium on wednesday night against Chorley only 600 tickets available for away supporters at Brackley.

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2 hours ago, Josef K said:

I remember when i was at school the FA Cup final used to be huge, from the buildup in the morning on children’s TV right through to KO. It’ll be exciting for both sets of fans making their way to Wembley but im  more looking forward to watching the Sheff Utd vs Forest, Mansfield vs Northampton in the play offs. Then hear how York City go on against Brackley. 

We should compare the viewing figures for the respective games to see if your view is representative.

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11 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

We should compare the viewing figures for the respective games to see if your view is representative.

The one on free to air television will pull in the most viewers.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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13 hours ago, Stirlin said:

Given that York supporters trashed their own stadium on wednesday night against Chorley only 600 tickets available for away supporters at Brackley.

TBH, that 600 probably has less to do with that and more to do with the fact that Brackley is a ridiculously small ground where segregation is ... dubious.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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22 hours ago, Stirlin said:

Given that York supporters trashed their own stadium on wednesday night against Chorley only 600 tickets available for away supporters at Brackley.

Why would people want to do that ?. Was it the local Yoof who thought they were dead hard. If there is any cctv footage id be sending them a bill for the seat they damaged. 

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Any final involving Liverpool has the inevitable backlash over their booing of the national anthem.

Whilst I'm no fan of the national anthem, I find the whole 'scouse not English' thing pretty stupid and full of post-rationalising to try and justify it. In reality, it largely stems from a desire to set themselves apart as different and of course superior to the rest of the country.

After all, if it was all so necessary and true why didn't Everton (who no doubt have a higher proportion of actual scouse fans) boo the anthem in 2009?

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About as enjoyable a 0-0 as I think it's possible to have.

Chelsea deserved to lose for wearing yellow.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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