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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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Time the ball's in play is objective.  Fitness can be measured.  Just a couple of examples.

 

Scrums in Union were becoming like they got in League, Union sorted it to a degree, League made it into a joke.

 

In Union Forwards are still Forwards and Backs are backs, In League there is less and less difference.

 

In Union there are more phaises to the game, eg. there is a place for very tall players to catch the ball at Lineouts.

 

In Union S Halves can throw the ball and end with a spectacular dive.

 

In Union players can roll about in a heap , and get up to " who knows what "

 

In League players can roll about if they want, But they generally would rather Fight.

 

In Union they have refferees, In League they have something else.

 

In union they have 10.000 rules, In League they have a new set most years.

 

In Union they have informed comentaries, In League they have Laurel and Hardy, with C Chaplin as back up.

 

In Union they wear posh clothers and eat Stawberry's in Twickers car park, In League they wear Flat caps, Race whippets and fancy pigeons.

 

In Union they clap and cheer,  In League they Shout FORWARD and Ger em onside.

 

Other than that pretty similar, But i know which one i like.

Dont expect anything from a pig but a grunt

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What about when they were in the 2nd division on sub 2,000 crowds and barely sneaked promotion by very narrowly beating Fev in the grand final and the avoided relegation on the last day of the season for about four years in a row. Were they a big club then?

Barely sneaked promotion? We won the league and the grand final, as for avoiding relegation that's the excitement that this new league structure is all about isn't it.
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Best Tell KD to B****** off then , That will do Bradford and Wakey a power of good, Not to mention Huddersfield.

 

While we are at it the Dr as well, Who cares about Salford.

 

" Super league will never grow whilst it continues this sort of nonsense"

 

It sure as H** won't grow without Money, If we get rid of these money men, How do you see that helping to Deliver the Sky contract ?

 

I would tell them to be off if all they do is sit back and replace crowds and player growth with money.

 

Why bother with an academy or local junior clubs - just buy up pro-players grown by more industrious clubs, why bother opening any turnstiles? Who needs fans when you can just pay for the empty seats?

 

And yes it would do Bradford a power of good if Ken was off. They may get their academy on track again and keep the excellent players they have had to sell, they may get crowds back up to 15,000.

 

Whilst you may think chucking a £Million or so at a club every year for 10 years is investment, it isn't if the level of quality local players doesn't go up or if the crowds don't go up.

 

On that model we could have a Superleague consisting of the bottom 12 clubs in the RFL, all financially sound because tens of £Millions is chucked into every club. My simple point is invest in the clubs who can provide the best returns. I bet that's what you do when you invest your money?

Edited by The Parksider
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I would tell them to be off if all they do is sit back and replace crowds and player growth with money.

 

Why bother with an academy or local junior clubs - just buy up pro-players grown by more industrious clubs, why bother opening any turnstiles? Who needs fans when you can just pay for the empty seats?

 

And yes it would do Bradford a power of good if Ken was off. They may get their academy on track again and keep the excellent players they have had to sell, they may get crowds back up to 15,000.

 

Whilst you may think chucking a £Million or so at a club every year for 10 years is investment, it isn't if the level of quality local players doesn't go up or if the crowds don't go up.

 

On that model we could have a Superleague consisting of the bottom 12 clubs in the RFL, all financially sound because tens of £Millions is chucked into every club. My simple point is invest in the clubs who can provide the best returns. I bet that's what you do when you invest your money?

So what about clubs like Warrington, I don't think they are particularly Famous for their production line, They are still a good club that is growing, and benefiting from a wealthy owner, They get their players from somewhere, and good luck to them.

 

So if KD cleared off it would be all Wine and Roses at Bradford, They took enough players from other clubs, and a lot of fans from Fartown, But that's life , that's the real world, It wasn't KDs fault the bought Harris was it, Or was it? And apart from swapping players with Wakey fairly regularly, most of Fartowns players have come from Wigan. That doesn't bother me at all, and it doesn't seem to bother Wigan.

 

Remember Yorkshire Cricket used to insist that players had to be Yorkshire born, I wonder why they packed that in.

 

I don't say chucking Millions at a club is ideal, But It's better than the club disappearing.

 

If a Millionaire came and bought Hunslet tomorrow, You wouldn't want him because it would be bad for the health of Leeds Rhino's,  Yeah makes sense.

 

So you don't care that clubs should be financially sound, wherever they are in the League, I think It's better than going bust every few years, we have lots of experience or that , It's great for the game.

 

So let me think about the investment bit. A club who play in a ground owned by the council and leased by the RFL That costs an absolute fortune just to keep open, who despite being able to pull crowds of 20.000 still went bust,  Or a rugby and Football club that gave me a 60% share of a £30 million stadium, I've thought about it, for 5 seconds.  That's why he's a millionaire and you and me are keyboard tappers.

 

No offense by the way to any Bradford fans, I wish you good luck, and i fully expect you to be back.

Dont expect anything from a pig but a grunt

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Barely sneaked promotion? We won the league and the grand final, as for avoiding relegation that's the excitement that this new league structure is all about isn't it.

 

If I remember rightly, Featherstone had the grand final all but won when Trinity staged a miraculous comeback. That's what I meant by sneaked. I have admiration for your club. The point I was making was that a poster was putting them in the "big" club column and these events in the 2nd div and limping along at the bottom end of SL do not support that viewpoint.

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If I remember rightly, Featherstone had the grand final all but won when Trinity staged a miraculous comeback. That's what I meant by sneaked. I have admiration for your club. The point I was making was that a poster was putting them in the "big" club column and these events in the 2nd div and limping along at the bottom end of SL do not support that viewpoint.

big clubs always find a way!

I expect wakey to be lining up in SL come 2015!

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The new structure is good, the investment is good. Introspection and waffling is Canute-esque.

 

God luck with the miserableness,

 

Well let's see how it pans out before you announce it IS a good structure.

 

Your continuous mantra that the change has come so that's that, is ostriches head in the sand-esque.

 

There are two factions in SL, and one still has the power to ensure the new structure isn't that "good" through funding decisions,  alternatively in return for power they may return to another structure they actually support, in time.

 

Your Canute analogy IS simply wrong and your attempt to paint those who want to debate the structure as "miserable" does you no favours.

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1. So what about clubs like Warrington, I don't think they are particularly Famous for their production line, They are still a good club that is growing, and benefiting from a wealthy owner, They get their players from somewhere, and good luck to them.

 

2. So if KD cleared off it would be all Wine and Roses at Bradford,

 

3. If a Millionaire came and bought Hunslet tomorrow, You wouldn't want him because it would be bad for the health of Leeds Rhino's,  Yeah makes sense.

 

4. So you don't care that clubs should be financially sound

 

 

 

1. Warrington have a history of poor player development, but they now have a good academy and are improving, and they turn 10,000 crowds in a modern stadia. They beat Fartown on both these important points, fans and player development.

 

2. KD can do what he wants, but you tell me what would be left if he did clear off?? Don't you remember what was left at Salford when Mr. Wilkinson cleared off. The best players cleared off and many fans cleared off.

 

3. No I would not want a millionaire at Hunslet tell me what the point would be?? He would not build us a ground, he could not spend any more than the cap and would not be able to attract young players.

 

Perhaps think about how limited untold riches is when your in a game of very limited resources and financial caps?

 

4. Salford again. Nobody is financially sound simply from sugar daddies, that's where you have it wrong.

 

Financial soundness comes from a big fanbase and a great local junior scene/academy  that produces players.

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Well let's see how it pans out before you announce it IS a good structure.

 

Your continuous mantra that the change has come so that's that, is ostriches head in the sand-esque.

 

There are two factions in SL, and one still has the power to ensure the new structure isn't that "good" through funding decisions,  alternatively in return for power they may return to another structure they actually support, in time.

 

Your Canute analogy IS simply wrong and your attempt to paint those who want to debate the structure as "miserable" does you no favours.

 

Never a truer word.  Change has come, change will no doubt come again and not be long about it.

 

We just can't make our minds up, can we ?

 

I'm cool with the new format.  If it hadn't been voted in this year, there'd've been a constant whining noise in the background until we tried it and showed it to be the complete tosh that it is.

Edited by Griff

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Who will be the stake holders in SLE?

 

Will it be the same 14 clubs that we have now,or will it just be the 12 club who are left after two are relegated at the end of this season?

 

Or will all clubs become stake holders?

 

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We will probably find out after the meeting on the 6th (this Thursday coming).

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.

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Never a truer word. Change has come, change will no doubt come again and not be long about it.

We just can't make our minds up, can we ?

I'm cool with the new format. If it hadn't been voted in this year, there'd've been a constant whining noise in the background until we tried it and showed it to be the complete tosh that it is.

the problem is some people will like this system and when its changed will spend a lifetime arguing to bring it back!!

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"the problem is some people will like this system and when its changed will spend a lifetime arguing to bring it back!!"

Very true the number of things we debate long after a sell by date(and that have become part of the mythology of league almost as much as the dip the toe in the water and run for your lives model)  PSG, Nottingham Outlaws, Origin county, etc etc is too huge to consider fully!

On the face of it though the new system does provide for Fev for example toppling someone higher up and having a phased in stepping up process.

I think the point about the top clubs sorting themselves out is on the money but much of the calamities and vacillations that the above list if only part of have been down to the selfishness of clubs rather than the RFL. Mo was a prime example of this and without going into detail his tenure contained some glaringly partisan decisions. I do hope that the call for an independent C E O is not a step back in time!  

 

 

 

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Never a truer word.  Change has come, change will no doubt come again and not be long about it.

 

We just can't make our minds up, can we ?

 

I'm cool with the new format.  If it hadn't been voted in this year, there'd've been a constant whining noise in the background until we tried it and showed it to be the complete tosh that it is.

 

 

Check out how it's to be funded Griff, two SL clubs to drop to the championship and with parachute payments to be given and another half a million to be given them if they then finish first or second they should be the ones in pole position to get back there.

 

Check out the funding for the current CC clubs likely to be 3-12. Peanuts in comparison, awful deal for the Championship clubs IMHO however I'll let your well honed financial mind makes it's own judgement....

Edited by The Parksider
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Check out how it's to be funded Griff, two SL clubs to drop to the championship and with parachute payments to be given and another half a million to be given them if they then finish first or second they should be the ones in pole position to get back there.

 

Check out the funding for the current CC clubs likely to be 3-12. Peanuts in comparison, awful deal for the Championship clubs IMHO however I'll let your well honed financial mind makes it's own judgement....

 

Finances can change as well as formats, Parky.  But, on the other hand, looking at the proposals, I'm wondering just how much the RFL want this to work.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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The Parksider

 Does that mean that the half million wouldn't be given to a championship side going up? I don't doubt your word here I just don't know! I am glad there is a parachute payment because that has been my concern about relegation returning the devastating effects it has always had bordered on the criminal and that can't be up for debate even if you're promotion's biggest champion! 

 

I also put a post in about Burgess/ Farrell and the former swapping sports which seems to have been removed. I put it out there in response to an article on this website, are we not allowed to discuss encroachments by another sport here? If so it's not the site I thought it was!

 

"4. Salford again. Nobody is financially sound simply from sugar daddies, that's where you have it wrong.

Financial soundness comes from a big fan base and a great local junior scene/academy  that produces players."

This is absolutely correct and I think that's Marwan Koukash's vision that keeps being mentioned and also from the evidence

of what he himself has said on the issue.

 

Giant Strides Good piece of fun! but,  "Other than that pretty similar,"  Really?  But maybe for another thread!

Edited by Oxford

 

 

 

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Finances can change as well as formats, Parky.  But, on the other hand, looking at the proposals, I'm wondering just how much the RFL want this to work.

 

London and one other will leave SL this season on a parachute payment of £780K

 

Two of probably Leigh, Fax and Fev will win £500K for coming top of the championship.

 

So in 2015 expect six well funded SL clubs and two CC clubs with funds to battle for four SL places..

 

It will be fascinating to see how it pans out, which SL club will collapse under the strain which CC club may just get a foothold.

 

IMVHO expect little change the RFL are merely making sure two CC clubs get a chance to fight for promotion. Everyone else in the CCC's stay as they are fighting for survival.

Edited by The Parksider
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The Parksider

 

Does that mean that the half million wouldn't be given to a championship side going up? I don't doubt your word here I just don't know! I am glad there is a parachute payment because that has been my concern about relegation returning the devastating effects it has have always bordered on the criminal and that can't be up for debate even if you're promotion's biggest champion! 

 

 

The deal protects the two relegated clubs from financial collapse giving them around £800K to play in the championship with. They may be able to keep a number of players on full time.

 

This happened when clubs like Salford, Castleford and Fartown went down under P & R. Wilkinson, Fulton and Davey backed them with money. IIRC Huddersfield went undefeated, Cas lost one and Salford lost two games so the parachute payment loads the dice for these relegated clubs if they maintain their chairman's backing as well.

 

Four SL clubs in the play off will be all the stronger and debt free thanks to this deal.

 

That leaves two current CC clubs to probably be the underdogs in the first round of "8" Fev, Leigh or Fax.

 

They will have had a £500K boost pre-season allowing them to try to strengthen their squads, but only at the last minute before the new structure starts, and that could be a problem for them as it always was for top CC clubs when we had P & R before.

 

That's my quick analysis but it looks like the middle "8" is loaded. What I will be looking for is the top CC clubs crying "foul". Bet they don't.....

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I may have missed something but I understand the top 4 Championship clubs will get a minimum of £500k for 2015, then a sliding scale from £250-150k.

Anything less than that £500k may not allow all 4 clubs to go FT, devalue the comp and miss the objectives of the structure over the next 3 years

 

I expect 6/7 FT clubs in the second tier with those in the championship at present to be much stronger in seasons 2 and 3

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I may have missed something but I understand the top 4 Championship clubs will get a minimum of £500k for 2015, then a sliding scale from £250-150k.

Anything less than that £500k may not allow all 4 clubs to go FT, devalue the comp and miss the objectives of the structure over the next 3 years

I expect 6/7 FT clubs in the second tier with those in the championship at present to be much stronger in seasons 2 and 3

I think the two relegated clubs will get two big payments the first year so there will only be 2 championship clubs on £500k

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