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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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London and one other will leave SL this season on a parachute payment of £780K

 

Two of probably Leigh, Fax and Fev will win £500K for coming top of the championship.

 

So in 2015 expect six well funded SL clubs and two CC clubs with funds to battle for four SL places..

 

It will be fascinating to see how it pans out, which SL club will collapse under the strain which CC club may just get a foothold.

 

IMVHO expect little change the RFL are merely making sure two CC clubs get a chance to fight for promotion. Everyone else in the CCC's stay as they are fighting for survival.

Mark Aston weighs in on this topic.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/all-clubs/promotion-or-bust-is-real-fear-for-rivals-aston-1-6413882

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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Mark Aston weighs in on this topic.

 

 

"I think the other championship clubs have been bought as they’re all thinking they’ll get more money,” Aston told the Yorkshire Post, with the RFL having just secured another major broadcasting deal with Sky Sports that incorporates the second tier.“I know I’ll get shot down for this but some of the top-end Championship sides have already bought a team for Super League too.If, though, they don’t get in those top two spots – it’s not top four as, remember, two Super League clubs are coming down at the end of this year – then what happens then? “They are going for broke and, quite simply, if they don’t get in that top two next year, they’ll be bust"

 

Thanks Tim. Note "They" I think Aston has signalled the end of Sheffield's SL dream there.

 

the "top end" sides can only be Fev, Fax and Leigh, but I can't see either of the two latter, now down to 1,600 crowds managing to compete.

 

For Craiq the top two CC clubs this year will get £500K If that's Fev and Sheffield again then Aston is saying Halifax and Leigh will be stuffed.

 

If Featherstone didn't make one of the two £500K slots then as they are already running what was it £875,000 worth of liabilities maybe he is especially talking about them??

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Who will be the stake holders in SLE?

 

Will it be the same 14 clubs that we have now,or will it just be the 12 club who are left after two are relegated at the end of this season?

 

Or will all clubs become stake holders?

 

The 12 who are left.

 

Who will be their boss is the bigger question.....

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I may have missed something but I understand the top 4 Championship clubs will get a minimum of £500k for 2015, then a sliding scale from £250-150k.

Anything less than that £500k may not allow all 4 clubs to go FT, devalue the comp and miss the objectives of the structure over the next 3 years

 

I expect 6/7 FT clubs in the second tier with those in the championship at present to be much stronger in seasons 2 and 3

As I stated on another thread Craiq

 

"unless all along it has been ( the new structure) one calculated and very effective scam by the RL to entice a bigger contract from SKY and keeping the 12 teams who start 2016 in the SL for perpetuity"

 

I have not yet seen how the funding is to be allocated, are the figs being quoted actual as published by the RL or are they a supposition for the sake of a debating point?

 

Any imbalance in funding such as stated will not create an opportunity for promotion as was implied by Parky.  

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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Thanks Tim. Note "They" I think Aston has signalled the end of Sheffield's SL dream there.

Realistically, it is. Unless they go for broke, which Sheffield won't do. The only chance now is to bide their time until the system changes again. In the meantime, the club will have more money than it had before and an opportunity to build a new base at Owlerton.

Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax have no choice but to try to take this opportunity, slim though it is. And even then, not all three of them will succeed.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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As I stated on another thread Craiq

 

"unless all along it has been ( the new structure) one calculated and very effective scam by the RL to entice a bigger contract from SKY and keeping the 12 teams who start 2016 in the SL for perpetuity"

 

I have not yet seen how the funding is to be allocated, are the figs being quoted actual as published by the RL or are they a supposition for the sake of a debating point?

You may not be far off there Gary. The actual funding per season pays £300K to all SL clubs to ease financial woes, it pays for all SL clubs to meet the current cap and a bit more £1,800,000, it pays for the two relegated SL clubs to stay afloat to the tune of 800K, and finally it gives the top two championship clubs £500K to try to get into the 12.

It looks like a put up or shut up to clubs who aspire to SL wether current members moaning about the cost or CC clubs moaning about the lack of opportunity.

Only 16 clubs seem to be in this fight for 12 Superleague places. My guess is they'll give it a few years whilst lenagan ousts Wood and then it will be 12 clubs in SL with a play off every 2 years between bottom SL club and top CC club. Lenegans heavily loaded P & R plan

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Realistically, it is. Unless they go for broke, which Sheffield won't do. The only chance now is to bide their time until the system changes again. In the meantime, the club will have more money than it had before and an opportunity to build a new base at Owlerton.

Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax have no choice but to try to take this opportunity, slim though it is. And even then, not all three of them will succeed.

 

Why "no choice", Tim ?  There's always a choice ........

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Realistically, it is. Unless they go for broke, which Sheffield won't do. The only chance now is to bide their time until the system changes again. In the meantime, the club will have more money than it had before and an opportunity to build a new base at Owlerton.

Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax have no choice but to try to take this opportunity, slim though it is. And even then, not all three of them will succeed.

Indeed Tim it's a put up or shut up invitation which I fear will either see someone from CC get a foothold (slim chance as you say) or put the nails finally in the coffin of their "destination SL" campaigns.

I'm looking like you to the next step already and I wonder Tim wether they would bring back a 14 club Superleague in say three years with London, Toulouse and Catalans in there??

Outside that a network of small championship clubs across the country.

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"unless all along it has been ( the new structure) one calculated and very effective scam by the RL to entice a bigger contract from SKY and keeping the 12 teams who start 2016 in the SL for perpetuity"

 

Now if this were true it would represent the "World Turned Upside Down" 

The general consensus from left field has always been about how incompetent the RFL are, couldn't run the what's-it in the proverbial blah blah blah.

But this would mean not only are they brilliant but deserve all our plaudits and applause for managing to marry all the contradictory factions and demands across RL and get them more or less on side with it all. :rtfm:   :fan:  :clapping: :fan:  :fan:  :good: Impressive to say the least!

 

 

 

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The general consensus from left field has always been about how incompetent the RFL are, couldn't run the what's-it in the proverbial blah blah blah.

But this would mean not only are they brilliant but deserve all our plaudits and applause for managing to marry all the contradictory factions and demands across RL and get them more or less on side with it all.

The RFL have stuffed most championship clubs hopes, reduced the chance of top championship clubs going up, and have obtained a poor increase in the value of the SKY deal - apparently 30% (so well done Padge). This was an offer the championship clubs could not refuse, enabling the RFL to use the tail to wag the dog (well done Padge again)all to secure Mr. Wood and his regime.

Not brilliant at all?

Edited by The Parksider
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The RFL have stuffed most championship clubs hopes, reduced the chance of top championship clubs going up, and have obtained a poor increase in the value of the SKY deal - apparently 30% (so well done Padge). This was an offer the championship clubs could not refuse, enabling the RFL to use the tail to wag the dog (well done Padge again)all to secure Mr. Wood and his regime.

Not brilliant at all?

No, the 30% figure that Leneghan quotes and the 25% figure Padge quotes are completely different.

 

Leneghan is being disingenuous with his use of stats. 

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I don't think anyone has put the distribution figures on here.  As they relate to how the restructure will work rather than the TV deal itself (which is Sky handing over money and SL/RFL dealing with it) I think it's relevant they're spelt out here:

 

In 2015, then:

 

12 SL Clubs: £1.825m

Clubs 13/14: £788k, £787k

Cubs 15/16: £550k, £500k

Clubs 17-24: Between £250k and £150k (Club 24, I presume is the 2014 C1 Champions).

Championship 1 clubs: 75k

 

So it's pretty much as per the initial RFL proposal.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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The bit about the further £17.8m being paid for coaching and into club's charities during the contract is interesting.

 

Is this just for Sl clubs?

 

If it was, over 5 years that is a further £300k per SL club pa. if split evenly.

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The bit about the further £17.8m being paid for coaching and into club's charities during the contract is interesting.

 

Is this just for Sl clubs?

 

If it was, over 5 years that is a further £300k per SL club pa. if split evenly.

 

There's a bit in the proposal about funding for academies and/or centres of excellence.  They would get direct payments from the RFL.  Is it that?  (And I'm assuming it's ringfenced.)

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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There's a bit in the proposal about funding for academies and/or centres of excellence.  They would get direct payments from the RFL.  Is it that?  (And I'm assuming it's ringfenced.)

 

Definitely would be if it's paid into the club's charity.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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1. Warrington have a history of poor player development, but they now have a good academy and are improving, and they turn 10,000 crowds in a modern stadia. They beat Fartown on both these important points, fans and player development.

 

2. KD can do what he wants, but you tell me what would be left if he did clear off?? Don't you remember what was left at Salford when Mr. Wilkinson cleared off. The best players cleared off and many fans cleared off.

 

3. No I would not want a millionaire at Hunslet tell me what the point would be?? He would not build us a ground, he could not spend any more than the cap and would not be able to attract young players.

 

Perhaps think about how limited untold riches is when your in a game of very limited resources and financial caps?

 

4. Salford again. Nobody is financially sound simply from sugar daddies, that's where you have it wrong.

 

Financial soundness comes from a big fanbase and a great local junior scene/academy  that produces players.

 

 

I So are we using Wolves as the benchmark then, or should we be using Wigan or Leeds, I mean are Warrington good enough because they are better than the Giants, Or not good enough because they fall short of Wigan. 

 

 2 You said it would be good for Bradford if KD pulled out. I asked you how Bradfords troubles could be his fault, and you answer me by saying he can do what he wants. 

 

3  You just don't know that , A man with enough money can attract just about anything he wants, According to that MK at Salford is bad for the game,. What if Salford have a great next 10 years, with only 5.000 fans.

 

4 You claim that finacial soundness comes from a big fanbase and great local juniors, "Just like bradford " they had a bigger fan base than half the league last season , With ex players in Oz and other clubs, and they are struggling to survive.  If what you say is true we would only have maybe 2 really sound clubs.

 

I do know what your views are , And i agree about the desirabillity of big crowds and good acadamies, But what are we supposed to do suspend the game till we have 12 clubs that are in that catagory , That's not an option is it,

 

I want Bradford to get sorted and i believe they will,  To blame their troubles on Huddersfield  for any reason at all is Daft, and would be like me blaiming them for the Giants finishing bottom for year after year.

 

At some point in the future there will have to be less clubs and expansion, I'm for that, But i know that the clubs with money will survive better than the ones without, whether we like it or not. When the money stops they will go the way of Hunslet and others, Nothing new about that in League.

Dont expect anything from a pig but a grunt

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The deal protects the two relegated clubs from financial collapse giving them around £800K to play in the championship with. They may be able to keep a number of players on full time.

 

This happened when clubs like Salford, Castleford and Fartown went down under P & R. Wilkinson, Fulton and Davey backed them with money. IIRC Huddersfield went undefeated, Cas lost one and Salford lost two games so the parachute payment loads the dice for these relegated clubs if they maintain their chairman's backing as well.

 

Four SL clubs in the play off will be all the stronger and debt free thanks to this deal.

 

That leaves two current CC clubs to probably be the underdogs in the first round of "8" Fev, Leigh or Fax.

 

They will have had a £500K boost pre-season allowing them to try to strengthen their squads, but only at the last minute before the new structure starts, and that could be a problem for them as it always was for top CC clubs when we had P & R before.

 

That's my quick analysis but it looks like the middle "8" is loaded. What I will be looking for is the top CC clubs crying "foul". Bet they don't.....

 

yes it's loaded. It's a load of rubbish. Another scenario is that Sheffield again win a playoff place, actually do win a promotion spot but are then turned down on standards.

 

When this format has been in place for several seasons and no CC club has come within a smell of promotion and the public therefore completely tires of it and votes with their feet, what then.

 

If they are to have p and r, have p and r, not some loaded half assed system which will not result in any promotion and with loaded deck finances to even further discriminate against likely threats from below.

 

I cannot believe that a ten team league with one fifth from a foreign country, unchanging and unchangeable for the foreseeable future is the way forward for a sport that wants to expand and grow.

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, with BT still lurking out there, that this one sided mess will provoke a breakaway and split the game asunder.

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This is from a RL genius from his playing days to his coaching and administration days. As we several of us at least, have deduced, Aston backs up our thoughts that this 3 x 8 is a fraud and so stacked against Championship sides, that a team actually getting promotion will be as rare as a dodo egg.

 

What is the thought process from those making the decisions to introduce such a doomed format. ? Go knows I support p and r but this is going to be worse than licencing.

 

Not only does it keep the top CC clubs from promotion but it further weakens the CC by creating a permanent top four at that level and marginalsing the rest but not funding them equally. More money to the top four, what the hell is that about ? It will make reaching the 3 x 8 academic and leave the other 8 or ten playing for nothing.

 

His point on the academies is also illuminating. There is going to be a severe shortage of players soon and just reducing the number of SL clubs to divvy up the pie in bigger pieces will not solve that.

 

Just as the game should be on the crest of a wave of success after the World Cup and the Sky deal, it shoots itself in the foot.

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yes it's loaded. It's a load of rubbish. Another scenario is that Sheffield again win a playoff place, actually do win a promotion spot but are then turned down on standards.

 

When this format has been in place for several seasons and no CC club has come within a smell of promotion and the public therefore completely tires of it and votes with their feet, what then.

 

If they are to have p and r, have p and r, not some loaded half assed system which will not result in any promotion and with loaded deck finances to even further discriminate against likely threats from below.

 

I cannot believe that a ten team league with one fifth from a foreign country, unchanging and unchangeable for the foreseeable future is the way forward for a sport that wants to expand and grow.

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, with BT still lurking out there, that this one sided mess will provoke a breakaway and split the game asunder.

 

Trouble with that is that the public have been voting with their feet for some time now, I believe numbers are up at SL games and down at CC games.

 

Don't think we have had the whole story yet, but i expect the greedy SL chairmen to start up again soon, Doesn't seem as though much is going to change to me.

Dont expect anything from a pig but a grunt

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This is from a RL genius from his playing days to his coaching and administration days. As we several of us at least, have deduced, Aston backs up our thoughts that this 3 x 8 is a fraud and so stacked against Championship sides, that a team actually getting promotion will be as rare as a dodo egg.

 

What is the thought process from those making the decisions to introduce such a doomed format. ? Go knows I support p and r but this is going to be worse than licencing.

 

Not only does it keep the top CC clubs from promotion but it further weakens the CC by creating a permanent top four at that level and marginalsing the rest but not funding them equally. More money to the top four, what the hell is that about ? It will make reaching the 3 x 8 academic and leave the other 8 or ten playing for nothing.

 

His point on the academies is also illuminating. There is going to be a severe shortage of players soon and just reducing the number of SL clubs to divvy up the pie in bigger pieces will not solve that.

 

Just as the game should be on the crest of a wave of success after the World Cup and the Sky deal, it shoots itself in the foot.

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything in this but would stress - if London survive then at best for the current members of the Championship it's only 2 of them who are going to get any worthwhile funding.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I don't think anyone has put the distribution figures on here.  As they relate to how the restructure will work rather than the TV deal itself (which is Sky handing over money and SL/RFL dealing with it) I think it's relevant they're spelt out here:

 

In 2015, then:

 

12 SL Clubs: £1.825m

Clubs 13/14: £788k, £787k

Cubs 15/16: £550k, £500k

Clubs 17-24: Between £250k and £150k (Club 24, I presume is the 2014 C1 Champions).

Championship 1 clubs: 75k

 

So it's pretty much as per the initial RFL proposal.

 

And there was I as a supporter of one of the CC "big four" buoyed and elated at the initial proposal of CC clubs having what seemed to be a pathway to the big league once again, and I was overjoyed at the thought of seeing my club welcome Wigan, Leeds, Saints ...... et al to our ground.

 

On reflection I was totally dim in my euphoria and I let elation cloud my usual calculated approach to "why".

 

These figures (thanks, Ginge) represent a very well calculated and orchestrated way of "keeping the Buggars where they belong" No wonder McManus, Leneghan and the other rebels have come out - post vote - to acknowledge their support of this sham.

 

I must concede and offer my congratulations to Wood and Rimmer in how they have seemingly been everyone's friend whilst in reality they have stabbed the CC clubs in the back, with false hopes.

 

On the funding alone and without a Ken Davy or a Good Doctor Koukash they will never ever be in a position to compete, ah well back to reality the dream was good while it lasted.  

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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And there was I as a supporter of one of the CC "big four" buoyed and elated at the initial proposal of CC clubs having what seemed to be a pathway to the big league once again, and I was overjoyed at the thought of seeing my club welcome Wigan, Leeds, Saints ...... et al to our ground.

 

On reflection I was totally dim in my euphoria and I let elation cloud my usual calculated approach to "why".

 

These figures (thanks, Ginge) represent a very well calculated and orchestrated way of "keeping the Buggars where they belong" No wonder McManus, Leneghan and the other rebels have come out - post vote - to acknowledge their support of this sham.

 

I must concede and offer my congratulations to Wood and Rimmer in how they have seemingly been everyone's friend whilst in reality they have stabbed the CC clubs in the back, with false hopes.

 

On the funding alone and without a Ken Davy or a Good Doctor Koukash they will never ever be in a position to compete, ah well back to reality the dream was good while it lasted.  

If the CC clubs can't read, then it must have been very very easy for Wood and Rimmer to hoodwink them.

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If the CC clubs can't read, then it must have been very very easy for Wood and Rimmer to hoodwink them.

 

Look over here, structure, don't look around the structure, look at the structure. don't look over there, look at the structure, the structure ...

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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