Salford Red Devils

[RSN]

Might I remind Parksider that Salford's owner is called Marwan Koukash. Deciding to call him "Koucash" is silly, unamusing and faintly offensive. It also devalues any argument you put forward.

It's merely a typo.

He has referred to him twice and got it right the first time. When I type it out on my phone it autocorrects Koukash to Goulash for some reason.

[deluded pom?]

OK

[The Parksider]

Might I remind Parksider that Salford's owner is called Marwan Koukash. Deciding to call him "Koucash"  is silly, unamusing and faintly offensive. It also devalues any argument you put forward.

 

It's not deliberate as RSN says he has him as Dr. Goulash. I'm not trying to be amusing, we have Pom for that.

 

But corrections welcome and after that telling off I will get it right from now on.

 

How do you think Salford will make a breakthrough given the salary cap?

[mmp]

Salford are usually low on season ticket sales, fans usually like to roll up and changing this mentality has been hard.

 

This year shirts have arrived before Christmas, all the players arrived for pre season before Xmas and went to Scotland for a team bonding. The club are opening an outlet in the Lowry centre there are now large adverts on the bridges over the East Lancs Road.

 

There has been a link up with all the local clubs and this has included teams I Manchester (as mentioned above) and Bury as well as Salford.

 

It is small steps but hope things will continue to improve.

 

Will any of this affect the on field performance, who knows

 

there was also a fans open day...

 

...at which the local amateur sides could attend to promote themselves. Some pics here: http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/photos/20141214--salford-red-devil-549217.html#image=14039324 

[deluded pom?]

I'm not trying to be amusing, we have Pom for that.

 

There aren't enough people on this forum with a sense of humour for me to be classed as amusing Parky.

[mmp]

there was also a fans open day...

 

...at which the local amateur sides could attend to promote themselves. Some pics here: http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/photos/20141214--salford-red-devil-549217.html#image=14039324 

 

and in addition...the pics and features from when Salford players visited a Bury Broncos junior training session: http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/news/red-devils-visit-the-paddock-1277222.htmland also here: http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/news/2014--another-successful-year-for-the-broncos-1330507.html and also here:

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/photos/salford-red-devils-visit-the-club-508746.html

 

Whiles Red Devils players players also attended the junior awards night to hand out awards.  

 

As people have said, its great to see!

[dkw]

As a town fan I've always had a soft spot for salford, theres been quite a lot of links and history between the 2 clubs. The signings this year look much more considered and less "star name" to make an impact in the media.

[R J Wagsmith]

It's not deliberate as RSN says he has him as Dr. Goulash. I'm not trying to be amusing, we have Pom for that.

 

But corrections welcome and after that telling off I will get it right from now on.

 

How do you think Salford will make a breakthrough given the salary cap?

 

In which case, I apologise. Unfortunately, many other people deliberately change his name to make some sort of silly point. "Cockrash" is another one regularly used by those with an agenda against the man.

Salford have certainly got a better squad than they had last year. I think they could finish as high as 5th this year but I'm not completely aware of how other clubs have recruited. Given better results, crowds will start to increase and income will therefore grow. Unfortunately, I don't think Salford will ever attract vast crowds. The city is Man U territory.

[audois]

I thought this pic impressive - for a starters. Just seeing that crowd assembled. Need each of them to go out spread the word and organise. They've got Eccles in the NCL - dont they need a fair few more like that. Hear lots good about Bury too but that will take time and perseverance. Hopefully Koukash's family will grow bit by bit.

[mmp]

Hear lots good about Bury too but that will take time and perseverance.

 

 

Probably the fastest growing club around.

 

Only formed in December 2008 and fielded 2 open age teams every week, and U18s, U16s, U14s, U11s, U9s, and U7s last year...season review here: http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/news/2014--another-successful-year-for-the-broncos-1330507.html

 

Hopefully growing again next year but in need with all the help they can get to keep up with the pace of the opportunity.  Need to do up the facilities, get extra kits, more coaches, and desperate now for a 2nd pitch with all the teams that might be playing. A new Cubs set-up to be done (jointly with other clubs in the area - see here: http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/news/2015-brings-new-broncos-cubs-team-1352950.html)and talk of a 3rd open age team next year which is something almost unheard of in amateur RL!

 

Excuse the plug - but anyone wanting to get involved can call Ryan on 07534934321 and the club is on a desperate search for sponsors in an area where RL has had traditionally no profile - a very snazzy sponsor pack here: 

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/d/documents.html 

[Saint Toppy]

You could equally ask how on earth can Leeds, St Helens, Wigan and Warrington be consistently top clubs if they can't spend more than everyone else.

Over the last 5 years or so Warrington have 'bought' success by purchasing virtually an entire new squad of players who are capable of winning trophies. When one player leaves they go out & buy a replacement, though this relies on their being a replacement out there of equal or better quality then they have lost. As more clubs are able to spend the full cap and 'buy' players this model will see Warrington struggle to maintain a high placing year on year.

Saints, Wigan & Leeds are consistently challenging for trophies each year largely due to them having invested heavily in their own youth systems and producing good 'home grown' players year after year so they can plan ahead and backfill positions when other players leave. They will still need to buy occasionally as no club can produce top class players in every position all the time (as Saints have found with their half backs recently) but they are less reliant on the the market than most other clubs like Warrington.

 

Salford are currently following the Warrington model, I just hope Koucash realises that to achieve 'long term' success he will need to invest heavily in their youth now

[Dave T]

Well I thank you very much for your considered reply

But nearly all SL clubs can pay full cap, yet the best players favour the trophy winning sides because as has been said all things being even players will chase the medals. Players themselves have also been happy to take less to stay in a winning team, e.g. Kieron Cunningham Kevin Sinfield.

Fair play though BJB has taken the opposite view......

I'm entirely with you about "building a strong youth system" but please do remember this would be in an area heavily soccer orientated. There are three good JARL teams in Manchester, and Mancunians and Bury are trying to expand things.

But to get a true Super league youth system established that attracts young athletes and provides results in terms of pro-players in good numbers may take a lot more money and challenge the boredom threshold of the rich "I want it now and I have the money" proprietor.

There is no record of mega-rich Chairmen being interested in the long term investment of youth.....

whilst that is a challenge, it isnt impossible to overcome. Warrington attracted top players prior to winning anything, Hudds have too, and Salford are starting to do the same. Some players are attracted by the challenge of getting a club to win something, and if a club shows ambition and intent, they can absolutely attract talent.

The salary cap is helping to spread talent. For example when Ellis and Morley returned from the NRL, they didnt join Wigan, Saints or Leeds.

We now quote Hudds and Wire as bigger teams, yet a decade ago this was not the case at all.

[keighley]

Over the last 5 years or so Warrington have 'bought' success by purchasing virtually an entire new squad of players who are capable of winning trophies. When one player leaves they go out & buy a replacement, though this relies on their being a replacement out there of equal or better quality then they have lost. As more clubs are able to spend the full cap and 'buy' players this model will see Warrington struggle to maintain a high placing year on year.

Saints, Wigan & Leeds are consistently challenging for trophies each year largely due to them having invested heavily in their own youth systems and producing good 'home grown' players year after year so they can plan ahead and backfill positions when other players leave. They will still need to buy occasionally as no club can produce top class players in every position all the time (as Saints have found with their half backs recently) but they are less reliant on the the market than most other clubs like Warrington.

 

Salford are currently following the Warrington model, I just hope Koucash realises that to achieve 'long term' success he will need to invest heavily in their youth now

looking at the recent thread on Salford reaching out and re engaging with the local amateur clubs and the picturen of the

impressive turnout at one such meeting, I would say that Khoukash realises the need to produce players locally as well as buying success but the Manchester amateur scene is not the strongest and it will take time.

[RSN]

Isn't it fairly obvious that Salford are doing more than just ploughing money into the first team or am I missing something?

[Futtocks]

Isn't it fairly obvious that Salford are doing more than just ploughing money into the first team or am I missing something?

It was made very clear from the start of the Koukash regime that changes were to be made to more than just the playing squad, so no, you're not missing something.

[The Parksider]

Over the last 5 years or so Warrington have 'bought' success by purchasing virtually an entire new squad of players who are capable of winning trophies. When one player leaves they go out & buy a replacement, though this relies on their being a replacement out there of equal or better quality then they have lost. As more clubs are able to spend the full cap and 'buy' players this model will see Warrington struggle to maintain a high placing year on year.

Saints, Wigan & Leeds are consistently challenging for trophies each year largely due to them having invested heavily in their own youth systems and producing good 'home grown' players year after year so they can plan ahead and backfill positions when other players leave. They will still need to buy occasionally as no club can produce top class players in every position all the time (as Saints have found with their half backs recently) but they are less reliant on the the market than most other clubs like Warrington.

 

Superbly written analysis, the real deep playing strength of a big/top club extends from the first team down to the local junior ARL.

 

It's a big part of the recipe for sustained success.

[Oxford]

It was made very clear from the start of the Koukash regime that changes were to be made to more than just the playing squad, so no, you're not missing something.

The short term tactics and long term strategy of MK have been clear from the beginning for those who are not angered by image.

Those mostly boring and turgid rants about him by pundits and posters were so far off the mark that it beggars belief!

I do not recall the same kind of " You can't buy success!" and  "It will be a long term project!" rubbish flying around other clubs or their leaders that all too often echoes around here when it comes to SRD. 

And those who point to clubs who now have vibrant top to bottom  local/grass roots professionalism well it was about time for most of them to be honest.

There is a difference between the Red Devils then and now and that's brilliant hope it comes to fruition for them and a few other clubs because we all need this to remind us how interesting life used to be!

 

"When people say call me John ......."  the Beiderbeck Affair   "There's a huge cloud of shame around ------ and ----------- being seen as bedfellows." Amanda Palmer

"And the pig got up and slowly walked away"  popular poem and song

[South Wakefield Sharks]

 

...How do you think Salford will make a breakthrough given the salary cap?

Salford with Dr K can significantly improve all the off the field things, such as the day to day environment the players experience. I bet going to training each day at Wigan or Leeds is a very different experience to what it has been like at Salford in recent years. Getting that right will attract better players, as well as improve the knees they have. That is something that clubs like Wakey can't afford, but is something Salford can do, as it is all about cash, and is not restricted by the salary cap. That will help them narrow the gap to the hug clubs in the short-term. Long-term they need to create a better youth structure in the community game.

[Pie tries]

My son played fit Trafford Raders u13s last year - Salford didn't cover themselves in glory - just left left them to sink or swim with minimal help. Did well though and could go along way.

[The Parksider]

 

I do not recall the same kind of " You can't buy success!" and  "It will be a long term project!" rubbish flying around other clubs or their leaders that all too often echoes around here when it comes to SRD. 

 

I do, and you cannot buy success when you are constrained by the salary cap. It is a great leveller of rich chairmen. If you look at what drives success beyond paying full cap, then look at Saint Toppy's post. If your constrained by the cap such that top players have a choice where to go, they choose the medal winning sides, or the bigger more stable clubs. It is a long term process and you'd best look at Huddersfield under Ken Davey, where over a lot of years now, it's been extremely tough to get the crowds up, and tough to get the best players but there has been progress and part of that has been due to Bradford's demise with Fartown picking up a few good players at junior and senior level.

[The Parksider]

In which case, I apologise. 

 

Absolutely no need, corrections welcome.

[The Parksider]

whilst that is a challenge, it isnt impossible to overcome. Warrington attracted top players prior to winning anything, 

We now quote Hudds and Wire as bigger teams, yet a decade ago this was not the case at all.

 

Can I suggest that although Wire won few cups, over the 40 years I have known them they have always been in the top division, always been a decent side, always been financially stable and those factors made them more attractive to watch play for than most.

 

For Salford I would suggest building that long term stabilty is another factor.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Can I suggest that although Wire won few cups, over the 40 years I have known them they have always been in the top division, always been a decent side, always been financially stable and those factors made them more attractive to watch play for than most.

For Salford I would suggest building that long term stabilty is another factor.

Weren't they nearly relegated in 2002?

[Dave T]

Can I suggest that although Wire won few cups, over the 40 years I have known them they have always been in the top division, always been a decent side, always been financially stable and those factors made them more attractive to watch play for than most.

For Salford I would suggest building that long term stabilty is another factor.

I think you overstate the strength of Wire. Sure we have always been present in the top division but for the majority of that we have been a mid-table team with the odd final appearance.

After a joint-top finish in 1993-4 we went downhill quickly, suffering financial issues a couple of times meaning we sold a lot of players, and was nearly relegated in the early 00's. Crowds were poor in some early seasons in a poor ground.

We were no stronger than the likes of Cas. It took time to strengthen the club, then the team, before finally winning the cup.

Moran was involved for a while, when our signings were of the calibre of Nat Wood, Ben Westwood, Graham Appo, Chris Leikvoll and Danny Lima.

The salary cap is making sure Dr K isnt just spending loads of money on world class players and building a successful team without building a successful club.

Nowadays, structures, grounds, clubs, attendances, training facilities, coaches etc. Are the real differentiators, and that cant be a bad thing imho.

[Dave T]

Weren't they nearly relegated in 2002?

yes. We havent always been decent, or financially stable.