scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 We talk of mid 8's but the intensity will be greater in the elite 8's with a 4 team play offExcept mathematically 1 team will likely not be able to qualify from the start having no intensity in their games and that spreads very quickly throughout that league. Most of the games in that 8 will be dead rubbers.Then we have a strong possibility of the damage we do to the prestige and value of the GF when we have a playoff barely worthy of the name. If you think the criticism was loud when Leeds won it from 5th, wait until we see the criticism of the system when a team finishes top after 30 games including a whole round of fixtures against their rivals aren't champions and hat title goes to a side who sneak in to 4th and are champions courtesy of winning two whole games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulliac Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Not very confident of your current squad are you To be truthful, I've not seen a few of the players in a competitive match yet, so it's fair to say it's a little open ended. It seems to be a decent squad for this division, but like all squads in our division it will need improving if we were to gain promotion. One thing is for sure though, whilst being promoted is still a possibility due to various extraneous factors, we won't be promoted because we have a better squad than any of the SL clubs, and neither will you. We may have luck with injuries and therefore have the better players on the day, we may get the bounce of the ball, it may just be our day, we might even get the majority of the 50 - 50s from the ref...no, discount that one..Lol. It certainly won't be because we have the stronger squad though and I'm puzzled about your reluctance to accept that simple fact, if you haven't got the better squad with twice the money to play with then your management aren't doing a very good job, and by the same token if you can't improve your squad with double the money the same applies. Mind, if I were in charge I'd put it about that I would be keeping 80% of current staff too, after all, it's not very motivating to know that after promotion you're likely to get the chop is it. No team is an island......................................... http://www.flickr.com/photos/31337109@N03/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I think that, by Championship standards, the Bulls have a large number of good players and only five or six really good players. Thus we can handle injuries better than most of our rivals but will struggle in the playoffs. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryO Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The system when a team finishes top after 30 games including a whole round of fixtures against their rivals aren't champions and hat title goes to a side who sneak in to 4th and are champions courtesy of winning two whole games. What's wrong with it? It is a league structure to determine the top 4 spots, ie gain qualification for a semifinal spot, we all know the rules at the outset, problem solved. Granted some did moan when Leeds won from 5th, but it is a lopsided contest, you can only be called champs if every team plays each other an equal number of times in a season, the mere fact that we have an extra game as in the Magic Weekend causes that imbalance, hence the team who finishes at the top of the weekly rounds, are the League Leaders, which along with the second placed team grants them an advantage of a home fixture in the additional Championship competition. "If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 What's wrong with it? It is a league structure to determine the top 4 spots, ie gain qualification for a semifinal spot, we all know the rules at the outset, problem solved. Granted some did moan when Leeds won from 5th, but it is a lopsided contest, you can only be called champs if every team plays each other an equal number of times in a season, the mere fact that we have an extra game as in the Magic Weekend causes that imbalance, hence the team who finishes at the top of the weekly rounds, are the League Leaders, which along with the second placed team grants them an advantage of a home fixture in the additional Championship competition. in principle I have no issue with it. I'm a fan of the play - offs and GF. I am because I like the idea of it not only being the consistency of the league structure but the big game quality of the play offs aswell deciding our champions.However the thing about the play - offs was/is the difficulty of it. Leeds to win from 5th had to put together a great run of form. I don't think you can say 2 games is a good run of form. I think the playoffs being one game and a final devalues them somewhat. As I say I don't disagree with a league play off structure but for the play offs to mean something the GF has to produce the champion otherwise you have he old premiership that no one took notice of. And I think it is far more difficult to say that the GF winners should be champs under this system than the previous one because the play offs now last one game. I think it is devalued and a team who finishes top but doesn't win the GF has a far bigger claim as 'true champions' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Switzerland. What's frustrating is they dumped it stating pretty much the exact issues people have with it. That it created a two tier top league (or exacerbated that problem) and interest rapidly waned in the bottom two 8's. Switzerland has an 8m population and since its SL commenced in 2003 only 2 clubs have won it - its a bit like Scottish Football but they only have one winner now that Rangers have hit the wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Switzerland has an 8m population and since its SL commenced in 2003 only 2 clubs have won it - its a bit like Scottish Football but they only have one winner now that Rangers have hit the wall8m is a bit more than what is realistically our market now and since 2003 we have only had 4 winners. We are pretty similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 8m is a bit more than what is realistically our market now and since 2003 we have only had 4 winners. We are pretty similar. with 100% more winners than the Swiss, and the same number that 20 years of Premiership football produced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryO Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 in principle I have no issue with it. I'm a fan of the play - offs and GF. I am because I like the idea of it not only being the consistency of the league structure but the big game quality of the play offs aswell deciding our champions. However the thing about the play - offs was/is the difficulty of it. Leeds to win from 5th had to put together a great run of form. I don't think you can say 2 games is a good run of form. I think the playoffs being one game and a final devalues them somewhat. As I say I don't disagree with a league play off structure but for the play offs to mean something the GF has to produce the champion otherwise you have he old premiership that no one took notice of. And I think it is far more difficult to say that the GF winners should be champs under this system than the previous one because the play offs now last one game. I think it is devalued and a team who finishes top but doesn't win the GF has a far bigger claim as 'true champions' Premiership, Championship, Play-Offs whatever guise is put on it, it still amounts to the same thing, a competition that is in place to correct the imbalance of fixtures, I do not and did not believe that having a "second chance" was the correct way, the fact that one had home advantage up to the final should have been enough, and I do believe it should have been 1 v 8, 2 v 7 and so on with the highest league placing having home advantage in the next round. "If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ultimately my point though is that it is a 12 team SL - any of the 12 could be crowned Super League Champions in 2015. That is a 12 team league no matter how it is positioned. Well it is a 12 club Superleague at the start of the season and it ends as an 8 club super league at the end of the season. So we can argue both ways. But my point is the effect of giving the top eight a new status, and providing them with extra "plum" fixtures with big crowds, whilst at the same time sending for e.g. Wakey, Widnes, Cas and HKR off to play Sheffield and Featherstone creates a greater advantage for the top eight and a greater disadvantage for the also rans. You have to remember that as Nigel Wood has said people make the mistake of thinking the salary cap is fixed at £1.8M and it isn't. Wood says the most successful clubs can spend with prize money up to £2.5M a year on players. (Source RL & LE 9/3/2015 page 3 article by Chris Jones where Wood is quoted) This means that there is probably a massive difference between say Wakefield and St.Helens already of well over £1M in wage spends. In this brave new world Wakey versus Sheffield may scrape 3,000 whilst Saints can have another bumper pay day of an extra 14,000 crowd against Leeds. Putting in a divide between SL clubs in which the clubs finances are boosted if your top eight and depressed if your bottom four will only polarise clubs. Everyone tipped Wakefield for bottom and they won two games with people declaring that Superleague was an even contest and everyone can beat everyone else. The cracks are already showing now at Wakefield, I expect more cracks to show for any SL club who annually ends up being "relegated" to the middle tier. If Wakefield implode financially Leigh and Bradford are waiting to replace them, but they are themselves only £1M salary capped clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 with 100% more winners than the Swiss, and the same number that 20 years of Premiership football producedand also our only winners since 1990.Btw there has been 5 premiership winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Premiership, Championship, Play-Offs whatever guise is put on it, it still amounts to the same thing, a competition that is in place to correct the imbalance of fixtures, I do not and did not believe that having a "second chance" was the correct way, the fact that one had home advantage up to the final should have been enough, and I do believe it should have been 1 v 8, 2 v 7 and so on with the highest league placing having home advantage in the next round.It wasn't really the 2nd chance. I'm ambivalent about that. More that 1 game a play off series does not make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 and also our only winners since 1990. Btw there has been 5 premiership winners. Not in the last 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It wasn't really the 2nd chance. I'm ambivalent about that. More that 1 game a play off series does not make. but fans have voted with their feet in the play offs, showing that the final is all that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 but fans have voted with their feet in the play offs, showing that the final is all that mattersbut the final is based on that. The success of it is based upon the value attached to it, which is greater because of what went before it, the play offs were a build up to the grand final. That had now been lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Not in the last 20 yearsyes there has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The biggest GF crowd was when the league winner had to win 1 game to reach the GF, allowing its fans longer to make arrangements/buy tickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundergaz Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 To save this thread going to 160 pages of the same old same old. No one will go up and no one will come down anytime soon. The middle 8s will be boring after 2 seasons of seeing the SL teams run riot against the champ clubs. Until the salary cap is closer between the 2 leagues the middle 8 will be dead rubbers between the SL clubs and championship clubs. The bulls played us the other week and we were rubbish to say the least probably the worst we've played in years and I still think the scoreline flattered bradford. If we were playing Cas hull etc they would of got 80 at least not 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchy Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The biggest GF crowd was when the league winner had to win 1 game to reach the GF, allowing its fans longer to make arrangements/buy tickets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytensmate Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 To save this thread going to 160 pages of the same old same old. No one will go up and no one will come down anytime soon. The middle 8s will be boring after 2 seasons of seeing the SL teams run riot against the champ clubs. Until the salary cap is closer between the 2 leagues the middle 8 will be dead rubbers between the SL clubs and championship clubs. The bulls played us the other week and we were rubbish to say the least probably the worst we've played in years and I still think the scoreline flattered bradford. If we were playing Cas hull etc they would of got 80 at least not 40. Was it the tea leaves or the tarot cards ? , I'm just collecting the various ways of ' predictions ' then i can do a league table of the most successful ' mumbo jumbo ' that totalrl fans use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytensmate Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 To be truthful, I've not seen a few of the players in a competitive match yet, so it's fair to say it's a little open ended. It seems to be a decent squad for this division, but like all squads in our division it will need improving if we were to gain promotion. One thing is for sure though, whilst being promoted is still a possibility due to various extraneous factors, we won't be promoted because we have a better squad than any of the SL clubs, and neither will you. We may have luck with injuries and therefore have the better players on the day, we may get the bounce of the ball, it may just be our day, we might even get the majority of the 50 - 50s from the ref...no, discount that one..Lol. It certainly won't be because we have the stronger squad though and I'm puzzled about your reluctance to accept that simple fact, if you haven't got the better squad with twice the money to play with then your management aren't doing a very good job, and by the same token if you can't improve your squad with double the money the same applies. Mind, if I were in charge I'd put it about that I would be keeping 80% of current staff too, after all, it's not very motivating to know that after promotion you're likely to get the chop is it. i just dont get this salary cap nonsense , so no club on less salary cap , or less money spent has ever beaten a team on a higher one ? , somebody had better tell those bradford city players that they didnt actually beat Chelsea , it was all a dream With regards the contracts at Leigh most of the players are on 2/3/4 year full time contracts , be that Championship or SL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytensmate Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 but fans have voted with their feet in the play offs, showing that the final is all that matters Yes , not suprising when a club can finish in the bottom half of the league and still win the competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryO Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 To save this thread going to 160 pages of the same old same old. No one will go up and no one will come down anytime soon. The middle 8s will be boring after 2 seasons of seeing the SL teams run riot against the champ clubs. Until the salary cap is closer between the 2 leagues the middle 8 will be dead rubbers between the SL clubs and championship clubs. The bulls played us the other week and we were rubbish to say the least probably the worst we've played in years and I still think the scoreline flattered bradford. If we were playing Cas hull etc they would of got 80 at least not 40. Very little faith in your team haven't you Gaz, at least 80? C'mon surely that was a tongue in cheek statement, I will contact you if you draw Cas, Hull, etc in the cup and we can have a little wager, should imagine the queue would be quite long though with your fellow flat cappers wanting a piece of that. On another point, I was a bit apprehensive about Sunday at your place, I would have thought that Fev would be raising their game against Leigh. "If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytensmate Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Why do we need to do that? Why would we ignore the other 3/4 of the season? Super League is being played now, we are 4 rounds in, Hudds are 11th and Hull KR are 12th. I accept the point that if this goes badly we could see the same teams in that bottom four, yet never be relegated (that is the extreme worst case - unlikely to happen, but I accept it may) - and then fans of those teams could see themselves as poor relations and their crowds go down, but tbh, in any case, even in a licensing system if we had the same four teams finishing 9th-12th every year and missing the playoffs their crowds would drop and fans would disengage with the club anyway - as you rightly point out, success is important for many fans. Ultimately my point though is that it is a 12 team SL - any of the 12 could be crowned Super League Champions in 2015. That is a 12 team league no matter how it is positioned. So we start with a 12 team SL , then an 8 , then a 4 , then a 2 , then a winner Whereas before we had a 14 team SL , then an 8 , then a 6 , then a 4 , then a 2, then a winner , completely different scenario , any idiot can see that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 ? 2006 - W1 3v6, 4v5 losers elimated,- W2 1 v 2 winner to GF, winners of W1 , W3 loser game 1 v winner game 2, W4 GF ie finish 1 or 2 and win one game to get to GF and 72k plus Saints v Hull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.