Rumourville: London Broncos to move again

[Kimbo]

Mostly Union clubs - they seem to attract the most idiots and egos. The principle is the same across all sports though.

Bedford, Coventry City, Coventry RU, Rushden & Diamonds, London Welsh, Moseley, Rugby FC and Orrell come to mind immediately.

[Bob8]

A minor point that not everyone will be aware of is that Ealing is very close to the former home in Brentford, indeed Brentford are the local football team.

That said, attendances in Brentford were rubbish anyway.

[westlondonfan]

One of the big problems at the moment lies in the fact that despite London being debt free, thanks to David Hughes decisions. It has become a very unattractive Business proposition.

 

The club lost it's superleague status thus losing not just SKY money but also the commericial and marketing opportunities that come with Super League status.

 

The club has no security of tenure (Without knowing the details of the Ealing deal) and is a tenant at the landlords whim. In addition to which the Hughes era has seen the club management fall out with two landlords

 

The club has no matchday revenue save for the sale of programmes and replica shirts.

 

The clubs youth set up has not recovered from the departure of Phil Jones in addition to which the playing assets of the club refllect an ordinary Championship side. The big earners being players at the end of their careers with little re-sale value. If the club was producing more players through the youth system that Super League clubs wanted to buy then transfer receipts come in handy at championship level and you could be confident that departing players would be replaced by new prospects.

 

The clubs training facilities may now have to be relocated from scratch from Bushey to West London.

 

The customer base keeps on dwindling losing about a third with each move and what remain are disenchanted with the club.management.

 

And after atomisting the club in September 2013, thus creating the mayhem outlined above, David Hughes claims to have "saved" the club - From himself presumably....If he is looking for an exit strategy then he has snookered himself.

 

No proper owner gets involved with a sporting club looking to make money but you do not do it to lose significant amounts of money either. Most do it to massage their ego but remember they are stewards of an institution within their community and while players, coaches, owners and even fans go the club remains and they are the temporary guardian of that heritage.

 

The sad thing is that off the field the club now has the right coaching and backroom staff - unfortunately about six year too late..

 

So to answer your question directly, any new owner would not have to be particularily cashed up to run a championship club what needs to be addressed are the problems outlined above and unlike the one man committee that has run the club you need to employ the right individuals on and off the field to fix the problems I have outlined and allow them to do the job.

 

You can spend as much money as you like but unless you spend it wisely all your doing is decreasing your wealth. You can lavish as much money as you like on a team but it is no gurantor of success (and there are a few examples of this in league). What you have to do is get the infrastructure of the club right first. then things can progress from there.

 

The main criteria when employing staff should be a love of Rugby League and a desire to create links with the amateur game, the community, local business and above all else to re-engage what's left of the fanbase.

 

It's a tough ask in the current circumstances.

I agree with most of what you say about the Broncos losing their attractiveness to buyers a result of losing their Super League status. I am not sure that they have ever had real security of tenure though I don't know, certainly they have never had their own ground.

The question is WHY did they get relegated? You say poor decisions on and off the pitch. I think a clue may be found in Brian McDermott's record. Did he make lots of poor coaching decisions between 2006 and 2010 and then start making 'good decisions 'from 2011 when he moved to Leeds? I don't think so. The cost of financially supporting a top level SL club in London is outside the range of anyone who is interested at the moment and the RFL are not interested in funding the Broncos either. Look at the position now of all other Super League clubs who were not based in Lancashire or Yorkshire (other than Catalans of course) as well. The lack of lasting success for any expansion team at the top level is very telling.

Personally I think London will be out of the top level for decades now,possibly for ever, but you ever really know. There is always the possibility that someone will come forward or the RFL and SKY may have a change of heart at sometime in the future. If that happens they will have to make up the lost ground.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

That said, attendances in Brentford were rubbish anyway.

 

There is a point her about stability Bob. The Club was actually on an slight upward trend at Brentford if you look at the averages

 

2002 - 3,760

2003 - 3,546

2004 - 3,458

2005 - 4,038

 

Brentford FC bled the club dry and that's why the HarlequinsRL option was taken but trhis was actually the most stable and promising period for the club attendance wise since the first couple of years.If only they could have found a home and stayed there

 

If only - The London Broncos epitaph

 

The question is WHY did they get relegated? You say poor decisions on and off the pitch. I think a clue may be found in Brian McDermott's record. Did he make lots of poor coaching decisions between 2006 and 2010 and then start making 'good decisions 'from 2011 when he moved to Leeds? I don't think so. The cost of financially supporting a top level SL club in London is outside the range of anyone who is interested at the moment and the RFL are not interested in funding the Broncos either. Look at the position now of all other Super League clubs who were not based in Lancashire or Yorkshire (other than Catalans of course) as well. The lack of lasting success for any expansion team at the top level is very telling.

 

 

I was never a great fan of Mac, but his situation was John Monies in reverse. At London, Mac had to coach during the "London Poundland era" When our benefactor believed in getting loan signings to bolster the club whilst awaiting the promised pipeline of talented youths to come through. Forgetting that as the team spiralled into decline that promising youths blend better into a side with a winning culture rather than one that is used to being trouted week in week out.Some, but not all, London prodigies have flourished elsewhere (Sarginson, Dixon) which underscores the point.

 

Going to Leeds, Mac inherited the best supported club, financially stable, great youth system and players who know how to win tight games with a winning culture. One of the three plum jobs in the game along with the Wigan and Saints posts.

 

There is an argument to say with Mac and Monie that they were good coaches of good players but ordinary coaches with ordinary players. Your really want a coach who makes ordinary players play above themselves. I think Andrew Henderson could be that man at the level the club is playing at but he most probably be overwhelmed by a Tsunami of off field issues in the coming months.

 

I would agree prospects down here are bleak but in my analysis of the situation its less about the money involved as the fact that other sports have moved in on the non-soccer alternative audience and the game has missed the boat down here even if a rich benefactor turns up. And I would point out that the Good Doctor at Salford (of whom I remain a fan) is proof that no matter how much cash you throw around it is no gurantor of success.

[The Parksider]

I agree with most of what you say about the Broncos losing their attractiveness to buyers a result of losing their Super League status. I am not sure that they have ever had real security of tenure though I don't know, certainly they have never had their own ground.

The question is WHY did they get relegated?  The cost of financially supporting a top level SL club in London is outside the range of anyone who is interested at the moment and the RFL are not interested in funding the Broncos either. Look at the position now of all other Super League clubs who were not based in Lancashire or Yorkshire (other than Catalans of course) as well. The lack of lasting success for any expansion team at the top level is very telling.

 

Without their own ground, without access to M62 players who didn't want to come, without adequate investment to compete, with the accounts deteriorating before the junior set up could really flourish the club had no chance. 

 

 in my analysis of the situation its less about the money involved as the fact that other sports have moved in on the non-soccer alternative audience and the game has missed the boat down here even if a rich benefactor turns up. And I would point out that the Good Doctor at Salford (of whom I remain a fan) is proof that no matter how much cash you throw around it is no gurantor of success.

 

I'm afraid the good doctor has all the advantages of his own ground, access to the M62 player pool in which top stars DO sign for him, the ability to fund the empty seats such that he doesn't even have to charge admission at the Catalans game, away supporters in numbers, a top coach, and an 1th. place finish in a smaller Superleague.

 

Marwan Koukash is not proof of anything as regards Broncos except he has advantages sitting along the M62 in his own ground without his family pressuring him to stop spending money.

 

Bottom line, last word....Money

[zorquif]

Without their own ground, without access to M62 players who didn't want to come, without adequate investment to compete, with the accounts deteriorating before the junior set up could really flourish the club had no chance. 

 

 

I'm afraid the good doctor has all the advantages of his own ground, access to the M62 player pool in which top stars DO sign for him, the ability to fund the empty seats such that he doesn't even have to charge admission at the Catalans game, away supporters in numbers, a top coach, and an 1th. place finish in a smaller Superleague.

 

Marwan Koukash is not proof of anything as regards Broncos except he has advantages sitting along the M62 in his own ground without his family pressuring him to stop spending money.

 

Bottom line, last word....Money

 

Hang fire, who are the M62 based top stars who signed for Salford?

[The Parksider]

Hang fire, who are the M62 based top stars who signed for Salford?

 

Your joking aren't you.

[JohnM]

Personally? No.

Seen too many feck-ups with clubs going down this route.

cant agree. Being rich doesn't guarantee success but it make failure more comfortable.

[zorquif]

Your joking aren't you.

 

No. I can't really think of any. Morely? Hansen? Hock? Are they 'top stars'? Don't get me wrong, the first two in particular are very good players, and were top players, but were they really considered 'top players' when they signed for Salford? Also, you could argue that for both of these that Salford in particular was the especial draw (above and beyond 'M62').   

[The Parksider]

No. I can't really think of any. 

 

OK

[zorquif]

so you concede that point?

[leagueman123]

Marwan Koukash is not proof of anything as regards Broncos except he has advantages sitting along the M62 in his own ground

The Dr has had major trouble in the AJ Bell which he doesn't own. Salford really have to move from the stadium to progress.

[zorquif]

The Dr has had major trouble in the AJ Bell which he doesn't own. Salford really have to move from the stadium to progress.

Was any of that post from parky right? Ah - he is wealthy enough to not charge for the cats fans, the do have a top coach and maybe his family aren't blagging him to stop paying.

[The Parksider]

so you concede that point?

 

Yeh, if you want the point have it.

 

Salford are full of rubbish players.........

[zorquif]

I never said that. Not being a 'top star' doesn't make you a rubbish player...

[The Parksider]

I never said that. Not being a 'top star' doesn't make you a rubbish player...

 

You really do get your teeth in and don't let go.

 

I'm avoiding a pointless argument about the quality of players.

 

The original point made by others higher in the game than me was being in London was a handicap for the broncos getting the sort of "decent second hand players" (will that do?) that could help them stay afloat on the pitch that the likes of Salford or Widnes or wakey or HKR can pick up.

 

The idea is that Salford have picked up players to bolster their team that I am told would be OK to move to Salford but would think twice about relocation to London.

[EssexRL]

 

The original point made by others higher in the game than me was being in London was a handicap for the broncos getting the sort of "decent second hand players" (will that do?) that could help them stay afloat on the pitch that the likes of Salford or Widnes or wakey or HKR can pick up.

 

The idea is that Salford have picked up players to bolster their team that I am told would be OK to move to Salford but would think twice about relocation to London.

 

Its an obvious draw back of our sport that its facilities, players, fans and culture are firmly established in the heartland areas. I remember going to Bradford university in the early 80s from Berkshire and being amazed to see RL was bigger than football. Up to that point I had never met anyone who liked RL (my exposure to the sport was via Grandstand). This is a fundamental brake on expansion and is not just a problem for Broncos but all the non heartland expansion teams in L1 too - as the table so clearly shows! It also means that anyone from the south who is good at the sport will head north to play because that is where the money is.

 

RL really has a unique problem given its geographical concentration and the economic gap between north and south. I don't know how you build competitive teams down here, whether SL, Champ or L1 - and we do need competitive teams to keep people watching outside of us diehards. One thing I do know is that Broncos move to Ealing ain't gonna help.

[EssexRL]

Its an obvious draw back of our sport that its facilities, players, fans and culture are firmly established in the heartland areas. I remember going to Bradford university in the early 80s from Berkshire and being amazed to see RL was bigger than football. Up to that point I had never met anyone who liked RL (my exposure to the sport was via Grandstand). This is a fundamental brake on expansion and is not just a problem for Broncos but all the non heartland expansion teams in L1 too - as the table so clearly shows! It also means that anyone from the south who is good at the sport will head north to play because that is where the money is.

 

RL really has a unique problem given its geographical concentration and the economic gap in this country between north and south. I don't know how you build competitive teams down here, whether SL, Champ or L1 - and we do need competitive teams to keep people watching outside of us diehards. One thing I do know is that Broncos move to Ealing ain't gonna help.

[The Parksider]

Its an obvious draw back of our sport that its facilities, players, fans and culture are firmly established in the heartland areas. I remember going to Bradford university in the early 80s from Berkshire and being amazed to see RL was bigger than football. Up to that point I had never met anyone who liked RL (my exposure to the sport was via Grandstand). This is a fundamental brake on expansion and is not just a problem for Broncos but all the non heartland expansion teams in L1 too - as the table so clearly shows! It also means that anyone from the south who is good at the sport will head north to play because that is where the money is.

 

RL really has a unique problem given its geographical concentration and the economic gap between north and south. I don't know how you build competitive teams down here, whether SL, Champ or L1 - and we do need competitive teams to keep people watching outside of us diehards. One thing I do know is that Broncos move to Ealing ain't gonna help.

 

Thanks for that.

 

When North Wales got out of CC1 they were heralded as the club that had found out the way to expand a club outside the heartlands properly, unlike rubbish Broncos.

 

A little peak in their playing roster showed a team that were all commuting to Wrexham from Lancashire.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Thanks for that.

 

When North Wales got out of CC1 they were heralded as the club that had found out the way to expand a club outside the heartlands properly, unlike rubbish Broncos.

 

A little peak in their playing roster showed a team that were all commuting to Wrexham from Lancashire.

As we still are. The thing is that we are near enough to the 'heartlands' to put a competitive team on the park while developing the game in the Wrexham and N. Wales area, instead of having to field a team that just gets hammered every week.

[audois]

As we still are. The thing is that we are near enough to the 'heartlands' to put a competitive team on the park while developing the game in the Wrexham and N. Wales area, instead of having to field a team that just gets hammered every week.

 

How's the development work going? Are there plans to play games in places like Colwyn Bay.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

How's the development work going? Are there plans to play games in places like Colwyn Bay.

U16s are in the N.W. Counties league and the minis section had an U8 festival last Saturday. Don't know about Colwyn Bay, although we did have a pre-season friendly there played apparently in appalling conditions. It's a bit far for supporters to go and the club appears to have a good relationship with Cefn Druids (it's in Cefn Mawr if you've got Google Earth, although the ground on the current picture's the old one which - surprise, surprise -  is now a Tescos) for when the Racecourse isn't available.

[Mumby Magic]

I can't work out what they are thinking. A realistic look at the whole picture needs to be taken. They need to almost forget about Super League and lay down real foundations in a part of London in which they can settle and develop. They are now no longer the "signature" London team as they are no longer in SL so the drop to the Championship should allow them to do that. Of course it is easier said than done. However a 1000 capacity ground must surely be available for them within London? How come we don't hear about constant comings and goings from the now well established Skolars and now even vintage style Hemel? It's about playing and spending within your means, and building relationships. How can you attract sponsors if you are b***ering off every 2 years or so? I feel the way forward for them is to be predominantly supporter run. If this means even competing in Championship then so be it.

[Manx RL]

I can't work out what they are thinking. A realistic look at the whole picture needs to be taken. They need to almost forget about Super League and lay down real foundations in a part of London in which they can settle and develop. They are now no longer the "signature" London team as they are no longer in SL so the drop to the Championship should allow them to do that. Of course it is easier said than done. However a 1000 capacity ground must surely be available for them within London? How come we don't hear about constant comings and goings from the now well established Skolars and now even vintage style Hemel? It's about playing and spending within your means, and building relationships. How can you attract sponsors if you are b***ering off every 2 years or so? I feel the way forward for them is to be predominantly supporter run. If this means even competing in Championship then so be it.

 

They are supporter run. That's the problem as the supporter isn't a bussiness man. he's an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not his strengths...

[The Parksider]

They are supporter run. That's the problem as the supporter isn't a bussiness man. he's an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not his strengths...

 

We're back to this old chestnut with respect.

 

A multi-millionaire oil trader is of course a very successful businessman.

 

The best business brains are never going to succeed without adequate investment to provide a product that provides adequate customers especially in a circumstances where the ideal business premises are high rent.

 

The very best of businessmen did not make a success of London Broncos so why keep slating Hughes?