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Padge

When you need a spead sheet to explain its time to rethink

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Yes true with season tickets but they don't cover the 8s comps. I know your trying to build this new structure up and I don't blame you as the idea was good but it hasn't changed much to be honest. Same teams still too good same teams still poor same teams fighting for promotion same teams fighting to stay up. All I'm saying is this comp is no different to licensing only more damaging for various reasons. I'm not saying the comp shouldn't stay either as it needs to be given time like anything else.

Well take that up with Featherstone. Leeds included the home Super 8s matches in their season tickets


Check out upcoming international fixtures and highlights of past matches at http://rlfixtures.weebly.com

 

St Albans Centurions International Liaison Officer and former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

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it's not a straw man. You assertion was that people were attracted by this meaning and purpose we have forced in to the season and that people were put off by the boring lack of purpose and meaning. I'm asking you were these people are?

I'm using hull as an example because they have gone from what is apparently a position where every minute mattered to one where none do. So why hasnt the every minute mattering part had the effect you state? Is there anywhere that any of your claims have been backed up?

Your argument was that I said people only want to see events where there's something on the line, and followed that up by asking why people would bother turning up to watch Hull and Catalans now their seasons are over. I presume your point is either that people will turn up to these games so the initial point isn't valid, or that no one will turn up so the system is stupid.

However, because I never said people only turn up because of this reason (whether this be all people for this reason, or some people for only this reason), the whole argument is a strawman.

Many people are attracted by this reason. Look at the comments on this message board for evidence of that. Many people are saying they are more interested because there is something to play for for longer. Not everyone is, and I never tried to claim everyone is. Nor is it the only reason they watch, again something I never claimed, so to expect some kind of huge drop off at Hull or Catalans because their season is effectively over isn't going to happen because their are other contributing factors. It's only a few games at the end of the season, and there's always next year, so those that are attracted to this that haven't already purchased season tickets may not come (same in any system).

The issue comes where there appears to be nothing to play for each and every year for a long time and they no longer buy those season tickets. What's the point of paying for a season ticket if there's a good chance you'll have nothing to play for (if that's what that person is interested in)? They won't, and people at the bottom end of SL and top of the Championship were voicing their opinions on that.

I think it's incredibly arrogant of you to suggest that sporting pride, winning, etc should be enough for people to watch sport. It might be why you watch, but why should everyone have to watch for that reason? And regardless, how does the new system stop the people who do watch for that reason from watching? It doesn't affect them one jot. If that's why they watch, they're still free to do that. If just winning any game is all that matters, why bother with the play offs? Why not first past the post and a longer league season?

The aim is to appeal to as many people as possible.


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yeah your right and everyone who disagrees is either stupid or disingenuous.

How to win friends and influence people the RL way

15% drop in sky viewing figures this year according to Mr Sadler.

Not at all. Nothing to do with disagreeing. The poster could easily have explained the new system within a few lines without mentioning that you need a spreadsheet to explain it (because you don't, nor do the RFL suggest you need one). That's why he's being disingenuous. He knows the system. He could have explained it. He chose not to. And by doing so possibly lost the game a fan. It's not because I disagree with him. It's because he was acting in that manner.

[Random stats in isolation prove nothing]


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Season tickets were at an all time high when clubs spent this time of the year focused in promoting and encouraging their existing fan base to get on board. I can guarantee that season ticket sales are down in 2015 because fans now pick their games due to the uncertainty of the fixture list.

 

Those fans at Widnes, Salford, Hull KR and Wakefield now have to think about a season ticket for next year (1) without even knowing what league they will be playing in (2) not knowing how many home games they will have in 2016 (3) whether they regard this year's purchase as value for money. My guess is that this uncertainty keeps them procrastinating for longer and ultimately that money may never actually find its way to the club in the form of a season ticket. So you go from someone who paid £200-300 up front for 10 years to those who chose 3-4 games at £22. You need to look past Hull KRs 2 big gates this season and see that week-to-week (core season ticket games) they have slipped from 8k to 6-6.5k, 

Isn't that just an issue with P&R? The season isn't over and they may be relegated at the end of the season


Check out upcoming international fixtures and highlights of past matches at http://rlfixtures.weebly.com

 

St Albans Centurions International Liaison Officer and former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

Moderator of the International board

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Isn't that just an issue with P&R? The season isn't over and they may be relegated at the end of the season

Exactly. This 10 year figure that people have apparently been able to get their season passes in July knowing they'll be in SL the next year isn't exactly true. 10 years ago, there was fear of relegation and it didn't seem to have an effect on season ticket sales.

The season doesn't start until February. The latest they'll know is early October. That's 4 months.


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I was at a birthday party today for a young person. 

 

I was asked if I could explain the new system, to Wiganers who are casual rugby folloers, how the new system worked I mentioned the RFL recommend downloading their spreadsheet  which shows how it works.

 

The response was amazing, "YOU NEED AN EFFIN SPREADSHEET TO WORK IT OUT, FEK THAT I CAN'T BE ARZD"

 

These are people who are casual followers of the game, go to the odd game but are baffled by the concept.

 

If you have got to here, the question now is this, do none RL people understand it even if they have the spreadsheet.

A final word for Padge , you try explaining as I did last year to my new Liverpudlian next door neighbour that after finishing top of the 2 nd tier and then winning the GF we wouldn't be playing Saints and Widnes this year as he'd expressed an interest in attending Leigh games

" FEK THAT , THATS STUPID , WHATS THE POINT ? ,CAN'T BE ARZD WITH THAT "

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Bloody hell. Time flies. When did they get rid of Saturday night games though?

early 2012, initially to Mondays

Edited by scotchy

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A final word for Padge , you try explaining as I did last year to my new Liverpudlian next door neighbour that after finishing top of the 2 nd tier and then winning the GF we wouldn't be playing Saints and Widnes this year as he'd expressed an interest in attending Leigh games

" FEK THAT , THATS STUPID , WHATS THE POINT ? ,CAN'T BE ARZD WITH THAT "

It was difficult for you to explain to someone that you weren't in the same competition as Widnes and Saints? Im not sure what possible further explanation that statement requires.

 

Did you need to explain why you weren't playing Toulouse, or Canberra or Port Moresby?

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A final word for Padge , you try explaining as I did last year to my new Liverpudlian next door neighbour that after finishing top of the 2 nd tier and then winning the GF we wouldn't be playing Saints and Widnes this year as he'd expressed an interest in attending Leigh games

" FEK THAT , THATS STUPID , WHATS THE POINT ? ,CAN'T BE ARZD WITH THAT "

 

Why didn't you point him the the RFLs spreadsheet that explains it, oh hang on there isn't one, its never been needed.

 

Does it confuse him that Liverpool and Everton don't play Celtic every season?

Edited by Padge

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

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So essentially you were relying on next years income to pay this years contracts , is that a healthy way of running a club ?

Or you put no value on winning the shield ?

Not abusive at all , I just ask unpalletable questions , rarely do they get answered , because people don't like the truth

I would say its more likely they can't afford them next year so they are cost cutting this year to save a few pennys to add to next year's depleted budget!

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A final word for Padge , you try explaining as I did last year to my new Liverpudlian next door neighbour that after finishing top of the 2 nd tier and then winning the GF we wouldn't be playing Saints and Widnes this year as he'd expressed an interest in attending Leigh games

" FEK THAT , THATS STUPID , WHATS THE POINT ? ,CAN'T BE ARZD WITH THAT "

 

I take it he doesn't know how other minority sports like ice hockey work in the UK?


"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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It was difficult for you to explain to someone that you weren't in the same competition as Widnes and Saints? Im not sure what possible further explanation that statement requires.

 

Did you need to explain why you weren't playing Toulouse, or Canberra or Port Moresby?

 

Yep but to his soccer mate they are in the same competition, just a lower tier. Just that he is used to straight forward P&R.

 

Your suggestions are nowhere near similar.  

 

I get your comment but your examples are not relevant as a counter point.

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Yep but to his soccer mate they are in the same competition, just a lower tier. Just that he is used to straight forward P&R.

 

Your suggestions are nowhere near similar.  

 

I get your comment but your examples are not relevant as a counter point.

Well not really, the situation affecting Toulouse would be pretty much identical to that facing Leigh.

 

Those loud voices who couldn't understand why Leigh could possibly have not been promoted to SL seem to understand perfectly well that Toulouse weren't.

 

But god forbid you suggest Toulouse should be in SL, youre asking for the moon on a stick there.

Edited by scotchy

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Well not really, the situation affecting Toulouse would be pretty much identical to that facing Leigh.

 

Those loud voices who couldn't understand why Leigh could possibly have not been promoted to SL seem to understand perfectly well that Toulouse weren't.

 

But god forbid you suggest Toulouse should be in SL, youre asking for the moon on a stick there.

 

I'm trying to relate the scenario to how his mate the soccer fan would view it. 

 

I'm not suggesting anything about Toulouse. 

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I take it he doesn't know how other minority sports like ice hockey work in the UK?

 

Your comment made me look at the ice hockey league in the UK.   Whilst seeing they are in a poorer state than RL their elite league system certainly gives them plenty of games.  Plus seems simpler than our new system, although not much.

 

Seems we are in a much better situation than ice hockey for sure.

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I'm trying to relate the scenario to how his mate the soccer fan would view it. 

 

I'm not suggesting anything about Toulouse. 

I understand that his made-up soccer friend is used to soccer's system, I doubt even krytensmates real friends are too stupid to understand that promotion and relegation can only be done in that way, never mind his made up ones.

 

As for Toulouse, you said that the other examples weren't a relevant counterpoint, im saying that Toulouse's situation is the same as Leighs, and even if Leigh were promoted, Krytensmate's imaginary friend would still be in the exact same position, unable to understand why Toulouse weren't promoted and somehow expressing it in poor spelling.

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Ok , I'll come clean , Tony my real genuine from Liverpool recent new neighbour and I didn't have the conversation I stated , I did however explain to him a few weeks back over a beer the current system , his response was that it was a bit " messy " , but concluded that it did seem fair that RL wanted any promoted team to be at least comparable to the one it was replacing , he also grasped quite quickly unlike our Wigan friends

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It's funny - I remember a very similar thread occurring when we moved to a Top 8 playoff system, saying it was too confusing and the RFL actually released loads of promotional bumf – including a spreadsheet I think – of all the various outcomes. They have definitely done downloadable guides for every playoff system so far, it’s not unique to this year. There were also similar comments from the press/Sky/the radio saying “I’m not too sure how this Top 8 system works actually” – so it’s nothing new, and every single end of season system we’ve introduced in the summer era has suffered pretty much the exact same complaints of it being too complicated – comments which seem to fade away once people see it in action. I’ll be worried if people are generally still as confused going into the split in 2016.

 

For what it’s worth, the reaction I’ve had from sports literate friends isn’t that they can’t understand it, it’s just that they think it’s a bit daft. Similar to the initial reaction in the RL community when it was announced.


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It's funny - I remember a very similar thread occurring when we moved to a Top 8 playoff system, saying it was too confusing and the RFL actually released loads of promotional bumf – including a spreadsheet I think – of all the various outcomes. They have definitely done downloadable guides for every playoff system so far, it’s not unique to this year. There were also similar comments from the press/Sky/the radio saying “I’m not too sure how this Top 8 system works actually” – so it’s nothing new, and every single end of season system we’ve introduced in the summer era has suffered pretty much the exact same complaints of it being too complicated – comments which seem to fade away once people see it in action. I’ll be worried if people are generally still as confused going into the split in 2016.

 

 

 

For what it’s worth, the reaction I’ve had from sports literate friends isn’t that they can’t understand it, it’s just that they think it’s a bit daft. Similar to the initial reaction in the RL community when it was announced.

The top eight playoff system was confusing, and a spreadsheet helped. Who plays who, who played at home, who got knocked out first time, who got a second chance to progress, club call... 

 

This year's 3x8 system is pretty simple.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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