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Bedford Roughyed

European Refugee Crisis

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Perhaps you could find the quotes from Jesus that say we shouldn't help the migrants, that there should be limits to compassion and that we should only help those we find personally deserving.

Jesus told the story about the good Samaritan.  He also overturned the tables of the sellers at the temple who were exploiting the vulnerable.  I'd say that, along with many other teachings, suggests a balance between love and justice, the two recurring themes of both Christianity as a whole and the teachings of Jesus in particular.

 

Oh, he was also big on humility, something that the Germans clearly aren't at present!

 

But that's all I'm saying because I do not want to derail the thread.

Edited by Saintslass

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I agree, except I know that local council leaders here were on Twitter criticising Cameron for not taking in migrants following the photo of the child on the beach. They want to be seen as being compassionate without taking the financial hit for it, which is a tad convenient don't you think?

Not really is just the reality of the hand they have been dealt. Central government has made this decision they should then fund it.

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But that's all I'm saying because I do not want to derail the thread.

 

That's a shame as it was your suggestion you'd be firing back with some thwackbottom Jesus quotes.  Instead you've used a parable widely understood to mean that we should help those who suffer no matter who they are (and in which those who find reasons not to help are judged badly) and an episode in which Jesus got proper angry.  Nothing about balance in either of them.

 

I'm sure we're all appalled at the arrogance of the Germans who, instead of building more walls and finding new and interesting excuses not to help desperate and dispossessed people, are instead leading efforts to find a practical solution for the poor wotnots.  I was sick to my stomach at their pride in clapping and welcoming the first wave of migrants earlier today.  They should know that true humility comes, not from helping, but from spending more money on fences and blustering about some paperwork.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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The right balance? How dare you dismiss the plight of innocent men, women and children who are going to die as striking the right balance? What an utterly contemptible position to take. What value do you put on a human life? We aren't discussing a detail of legislation, we are talking about human beings lives. This is the biggest humanitarian crisis since 1930s Germany.

Sadly Human life has no worth to many You lefties think that by trying to save everybody andinviting them to an already overcrowded struggling system, will make their lives so much better and that by doing this you can save the world. It doesnt and for the bit of hope you think you give these people, you actually make things worse. Lets encourage them to make a very dangerous journey across thousands of miles. Many even when they end up in western Europe are forced to sleep in poor conditions and struggle to adapt. They have no friends, they have no ties either culturally or personally to the area. But they think they can get money and a life of dreams-which is not there even for most natives! Doctors and Nurses already work 14 hour shifts or more and the health system already is past its limits. Doctors have to be flown in for the weekend etc. Some Surgerys already turn people away. But lets invite a few hundred thousand anyway.

 

Whilst its very sad to see the conditions these people are in, you cant help them all. In a perfect world it would be great to have them come to Europe and get them back on their feet. But sadly we cant do that and making things worse by inviting them here. Theres kids here that are abandoned by their parents and end up in Social Services and the support is not there-many are even abused while in care. Also by inviting them over you risk having ghettos. This has already happened in some cities across Europe where they are very much Asian or North African areas and few speak English/German/French despite it being the language of the land. 

 

For me the help and the aid they need should be in the neighbouring lands. People should be doing short saf trips not long dangerous trips to Europe. The EU, USA and UN etc should be helping Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, Kenya, Tunisia in funding and maintaining these safe havens. The Arab states should be forced in to taking Refugees and helping them. Currently the likes of Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, UAE dont take any Refugees or contribute much to help them. Any Refugees that are picked up in boats should be not sent to Europe but to a safe haven. Picking up the boat people and sending them to Europe sends out the wrong message and is doing the work of the Smugglers. 

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Sadly Human life has no worth to many You lefties think that by trying to save everybody andinviting them to an already overcrowded struggling system, will make their lives so much better and that by doing this you can save the world. It doesnt and for the bit of hope you think you give these people, you actually make things worse. Lets encourage them to make a very dangerous journey across thousands of miles. Many even when they end up in western Europe are forced to sleep in poor conditions and struggle to adapt. They have no friends, they have no ties either culturally or personally to the area. But they think they can get money and a life of dreams-which is not there even for most natives! Doctors and Nurses already work 14 hour shifts or more and the health system already is past its limits. Doctors have to be flown in for the weekend etc. Some Surgerys already turn people away. But lets invite a few hundred thousand anyway.

Whilst its very sad to see the conditions these people are in, you cant help them all. In a perfect world it would be great to have them come to Europe and get them back on their feet. But sadly we cant do that and making things worse by inviting them here. Theres kids here that are abandoned by their parents and end up in Social Services and the support is not there-many are even abused while in care. Also by inviting them over you risk having ghettos. This has already happened in some cities across Europe where they are very much Asian or North African areas and few speak English/German/French despite it being the language of the land.

For me the help and the aid they need should be in the neighbouring lands. People should be doing short saf trips not long dangerous trips to Europe. The EU, USA and UN etc should be helping Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, Kenya, Tunisia in funding and maintaining these safe havens. The Arab states should be forced in to taking Refugees and helping them. Currently the likes of Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, UAE dont take any Refugees or contribute much to help them. Any Refugees that are picked up in boats should be not sent to Europe but to a safe haven. Picking up the boat people and sending them to Europe sends out the wrong message and is doing the work of the Smugglers.

That's an incredibly long winded effort at trying to dress up bigotry as concern. And it doesn't wash pal.

They are not been " encouraged to make dangerous journeys" they are escaping this:

la-world-news-syria-bombing-zum.jpg-2012

Edited by WearyRhino

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That's an incredibly long winded effort at trying to dress up bigotry as concern. And it doesn't wash pal.

They are not been " encouraged to make dangerous journeys" they are escaping this:

la-world-news-syria-bombing-zum.jpg-2012

So they need to go through Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Hungary, Austria to get away from such scenes? Dont talk rubbish! You think there are not safe areas nearer than Europe? You think that the EU, UN and the USA couldnt provide the support they are getting in Europe in neighbouring lands? Why do you want these people to undertake a dangerous journey across the sea and through dangerous terrain to get help? You call yourself a humanitarian but then encourage people to risk their lives and lives of theiur family. What a hypocrite! Stupid dumb leftie who that if you dont think like them then they are Nazis/Bigots etc. Try seeing the suffering these people are going through to reach western Europe on a mission of false hopes and dreams.

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So they need to go through Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Hungary, Austria to get away from such scenes? Dont talk rubbish! You think there are not safe areas nearer than Europe?

 

Most are not coming to Europe, but as Britain along with the US is culpable for the whole situation we need to take some responsibility for the humanitarian disaster we have created.

 

COJZoesWsAAXviV.jpg

Edited by WearyRhino

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So they need to go through Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Hungary, Austria to get away from such scenes? Dont talk rubbish! You think there are not safe areas nearer than Europe? You think that the EU, UN and the USA couldnt provide the support they are getting in Europe in neighbouring lands? Why do you want these people to undertake a dangerous journey across the sea and through dangerous terrain to get help? You call yourself a humanitarian but then encourage people to risk their lives and lives of theiur family. What a hypocrite! Stupid dumb leftie who that if you dont think like them then they are Nazis/Bigots etc. Try seeing the suffering these people are going through to reach western Europe on a mission of false hopes and dreams.

There are UN run camps in neighbouring countries which while not ideal by any means are safer than trying to cross the Med in a dinghy.

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There are UN run camps in neighbouring countries which while not ideal by any means are safer than trying to cross the Med in a dinghy.

 

And the stats on Weary's bar chart show that 90% of refugees from Syria are in Turkey and the Middle East.

 

Maybe some of them, Christians, Kurds, or other not-always-welcome types, don't feel safe there and they make up the slightly more desperate 10% now in Europe.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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And the stats on Weary's bar chart show that 90% of refugees from Syria are in Turkey and the Middle East.

 

Maybe some of them, Christians, Kurds, or other not-always-welcome types, don't feel safe there and they make up the slightly more desperate 10% now in Europe.

 

Moreover, here's a UN refugee camp. Would you want to take your family and children there? Particularly when you are well aware that Palestinians have been living in such camps since 1948.

 

2013852033468734_20.jpg

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And the stats on Weary's bar chart show that 90% of refugees from Syria are in Turkey and the Middle East.

 

I've no idea where Weary's bar chart came from or how accurate it is but media reports tell me that most of the Syrian refugees are in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan.  However, I don't know what point you were trying to make bearing in mind the post of mine you were replying to?

 

 

Maybe some of them, Christians, Kurds, or other not-always-welcome types, don't feel safe there and they make up the slightly more desperate 10% now in Europe.

Not all the migrants in Europe at present are from Syria, as has been repeatedly reported.  I doubt anyone wants to live in a camp but chances are they will be safer than living in Syria, as per the photo above. 

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On the TV news this evening it was reported that Turkey have begun intercepting boats as they enter the water, taking the migrants off the boats and arresting those involved in putting them out to sea. 

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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I've no idea where Weary's bar chart came from or how accurate it is but media reports tell me that most of the Syrian refugees are in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. 

 

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-europes-migration-crisis/21469


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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BR,thanks for the Huffington Post article; interesting read. It is very interesting that the main players in the Syrian conflict have so far taken hardly any refugees if any, bar Turkey. Russia, Iran, Qatar and Saudi Arabia should be held for account. They are the main players in this particular conflict. It wouldn't be that hard to set up a humanitarian corridor through Turkey via Iran and Southern Iraq to the land of Saud etc.

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So they need to go through Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Hungary, Austria to get away from such scenes? Dont talk rubbish! You think there are not safe areas nearer than Europe? You think that the EU, UN and the USA couldnt provide the support they are getting in Europe in neighbouring lands? Why do you want these people to undertake a dangerous journey across the sea and through dangerous terrain to get help? You call yourself a humanitarian but then encourage people to risk their lives and lives of theiur family. What a hypocrite! Stupid dumb leftie who that if you dont think like them then they are Nazis/Bigots etc. Try seeing the suffering these people are going through to reach western Europe on a mission of false hopes and dreams.

 

You are quoting countries that are in Europe as in union, some aren't but check your facts.

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BR,thanks for the Huffington Post article; interesting read. It is very interesting that the main players in the Syrian conflict have so far taken hardly any refugees if any, bar Turkey. Russia, Iran, Qatar and Saudi Arabia should be held for account. They are the main players in this particular conflict. It wouldn't be that hard to set up a humanitarian corridor through Turkey via Iran and Southern Iraq to the land of Saud etc.

 

Its interesting area and lots of history is at play, it gets more complex than just saying "gulf' states should do X.  The Kurds wont be welcome in Iran.  No one welcome in Israel.  Saudi funding ISIS etc.  Along with mixing Arab, Persian, etc in to the same bucket.

 

Saudi etc could and should do more, politics/proxy war is at play.  Plenty of open space but not particularly nice for any camp (not sure if you ever went to the British camps in northern Kuwait).


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Moreover, here's a UN refugee camp. Would you want to take your family and children there? Particularly when you are well aware that Palestinians have been living in such camps since 1948.

 

2013852033468734_20.jpg

Yes if it means them surviving. Its certainly better than dragging your family across dangerous waters and across dangerous terrain and sleeping out in the open in the hope of getting money in Western Europe. People are sleeping in containers in Germany as no space elsewhere-that will be awful in winter when it gets down to -20C like it often does in the South and East of Germany. Maybe these Camps as in your picture would be better if money from the West was pumped in instead of inviting people to Europe and that more doctors and other support was coordinated better. Its about time the Arab states got off their backsides and started helping out. Europe should not ignore these people but there are better ways these people can be helped than coming to Europe. 

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There are plenty of empty houses.  According to the Bedroom Taxers there's even plenty of capacity *within* currently available social housing.

 

Just because there's problems with supply in the market doesn't mean there aren't properties.

Ok so you say theres plenty of capacity within the social housing sector,not from what i see daily and my firm work in that market,believe me as we complete a dwelling tenants move in within 24 hours,sometimes on the same day.

Then what about feeding/clothing/heating for these new additions,not to mention medical and education bills to the already stretched resources(according to the socialists).

As of Thursday my local Labour Leader of our council declared his intention to invite a small number of refugees into our town,you should see the response he's been getting online from this heartland Labour town its white hot,no, no,no from 90% of the respondants.

There was a migrant on BBC news this morning who had fled Syria to come here 3 months ago,when asked where his family were(wife and 2 children aged 1 and 8)he said theywere back in Syria.Now i'm not doubting the situation is poor there,but i could'nt for the life of me leave my young family in such a dangerous place.

I fear a lot of the migrants are economic migrants with Germany and some Nordic countries making the situation worse by openly stating they will accept them.

Word will get round and more will come meaning more dreadful scenes like the turkish beach

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We could go back to the 'let them drown' plan which was so successful at the start of the year.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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BR, sorry can't quote on my phone; best get some internet in the new house!

I understand the difficulties of the mixed ethnic backgrounds in Syria and the wider area, especially when you move people's to areas of different culture/background, but there are areas across the region appropriate. Any humanitarian effort would need people's to be transported to wider areas across the Middle East area and beyond but there needs to be the will and effort under a UN banner.

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This influx to Germany will not be welcomed by the general public there

I worked there in the late 70's/early 80's and foreign workers were hated especially the Turkish community,a load of migrants who have no use to the system at all will be totally alienated.

Not to mention the growing Nazi league's response

This will be Merkel's last term in office

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So you were an economic migrant then you hypocrite! Jeez!

And your turn for the 1 week ban.  Fed up now of things being made personal.

 

You really can't say you haven't been warned.

 

Making this public because I'm getting even more fed up of the over-dramatic hysteria on this forum that makes Premiership Football dives look tame.  I really have lost my tolerance so enough.  Just post sensibly.  If you can't post without hamming it up like a panto dame then just go elsewhere.

 

5 posts removed.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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This influx to Germany will not be welcomed by the general public there

I worked there in the late 70's/early 80's and foreign workers were hated especially the Turkish community,a load of migrants who have no use to the system at all will be totally alienated.

Not to mention the growing Nazi league's response

This will be Merkel's last term in office

Really?

https://youtu.be/cQuGYU3lGIg

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