The Panama Papers

[Saintslass]

No they've been calling for an end to tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. I'd guess that Cameron's dad's scheme falls into the latter category.  Why else have a scheme in Panama?

I listened to an explanation of this 'scheme' as you call it on the BBC news channel this lunchtime.  Apparently these unit trusts when they are located offshore are set up to avoid three tier taxation.  The investment itself isn't taxed but the profits and shares are (in the country/countries where the business/individual does business/resides).  Apparently £millions in pensions are invested in the exact same unit trusts Cameron's father's company invested in.  It's all perfectly legal and the profits and dividends all declared to local tax authorities.  So if you have a pension and that pension is invested in unit trusts then you are as guilty of tax avoidance as Cameron and his Dad.

 

After watching the explanation on the BBC I couldn't understand the reason why Cameron is being hounded about this other than the usual anti-rich vengeful streak within the left of politics.

[Saintslass]

This issue is a matter of public standards. If Cameron is allowed to simply brush off his failure to declare his financial interests in his fathers' offshore business empire for nine years of his parliamentary career as some kind of oversight, or try to argue that "it wasn't against the exact letter of the law - so it's OK" - the public would be giving our acquiescence to more of this kind of moral impropriety in the future.

 

If David Cameron doesn't have the moral decency to resign over this issue (which no doubt he doesn't), the British public have a duty to make him resign, otherwise we'd be sending the message to all the other self-serving MPs in parliament that they're absolutely fine to continue owning and not declaring significant chunks of offshore business empires.

Given that he hasn't done anything wrong then it isn't a matter of public standards.  He doesn't have to resign because he hasn't done anything wrong.  Simples.

[Derwent]

It's his fault we're having the referendum in the first place, having used it as a bargaining chip gambling the country's future to save his own political skin from his 'outers' last year, and right now, I doubt he is much of an asset to the 'IN' campaign anymore, if he ever was.

 

If he goes, he goes.

Cool. Like I said be careful what you wish for. As much as you don't like the current incumbent you might find the alternatives even worse. They call it cutting off your nose to spite your face round here.

[Griff9of13]

I understand that he was more popular (or should that be less disliked) by the public than other leaders, but I'd be interested to see what his popularity ratings are right now. A week really is a long time in politics. I remember when Tony Blair used to be popular. Look at him now.

 

Isn't it just: YouGov poll, Cameron's ratings now lower than Corbyn's

[Futtocks]

After watching the explanation on the BBC I couldn't understand the reason why Cameron is being hounded about this other than the usual anti-rich vengeful streak within the left of politics.

Considering some of the characters and media outlets that are gunning for Cameron, it would be pretty weird to think of them as lefties. He's probably under more fire from the right and from his own party.

 

Obviously, the Guardian are pushing the story and Labour are looking to capitalise, but the other end of the political spectrum seem to want his head on a pike even more.

 

We have come to the point where an old Etonian (and a Bullingdon Club member) is not considered "one of us" by the Conservative extremists. Who'd have thought it?

[RidingPie]

I understand that he was more popular (or should that be less disliked) by the public than other leaders, but I'd be interested to see what his popularity ratings are right now. A week really is a long time in politics. I remember when Tony Blair used to be popular. Look at him now.

It's taken years for Blair to become as unpopular as he is now. Which is a shame as I still think on balance he was a good PM who made some bad choices.

I always keep an eye on the polling figures so if anything comes up I'll link to it. I don't know why so many conservatives love Boris, as a floating voter id never vote for him, whilst I've often said I can't see myself voting for Corbyn but with a choice between him and Boris, that would do it.

[RidingPie]

Isn't it just: YouGov poll, Cameron's ratings now lower than Corbyn's

I stand corrected! That was quick

[Griff9of13]

Given that he hasn't done anything wrong then it isn't a matter of public standards.  He doesn't have to resign because he hasn't done anything wrong.  Simples.

 

But there's more to it than that; it's the way he's conducted himself over this last week, constantly shifting his position and trying to wriggle off the hook. Tom Watson says it better than me here.

 

"I don’t think anybody is saying that the prime minister has broken the law but what he has done is ethically wrong. He has to stand up for the highest standards. He seeks to lead this country.It is clear to me that he was obfuscating because he had a degree of personal shame. It took three days for professional journalists to wrench these facts out of him ...

Let us not forget, he is very good at lecturing others about their tax affairs. He did a speech in 2013 where he talked about the tax avoidance industry, people being surrounded by an army of lawyers and accountants to try and avoid paying tax. He told high-profile individuals that their tax arrangements were morally wrong. Well, now we know that he was involved in the same kind of schemes. And I think it is only right that our prime minister tells the people whether he had any other investments or not."

[John Drake]

Cool. Like I said be careful what you wish for. As much as you don't like the current incumbent you might find the alternatives even worse. They call it cutting off your nose to spite your face round here.

 

I have no say in whether Cameron stays or goes, nor a choice in who would replace him if he did, so my nose will be staying firmly on my face regardless.

[Bedford Roughyed]

But there's more to it than that; it's the way he's conducted himself over this last week, constantly shifting his position and trying to wriggle off the hook. 

 

 

It took 5 statements in 4 days to come out.  That looks bad regardless of what actually happened.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Jimmy Carr ‏@jimmycarr  1h

1 hour ago

I'm going to keep it classy. It would be ‘morally wrong’ and ‘hypocrytical’ to comment on another individual’s tax affairs.

[Saintslass]

But there's more to it than that; it's the way he's conducted himself over this last week, constantly shifting his position and trying to wriggle off the hook. Tom Watson says it better than me here.

 

"I don’t think anybody is saying that the prime minister has broken the law but what he has done is ethically wrong. He has to stand up for the highest standards. He seeks to lead this country.It is clear to me that he was obfuscating because he had a degree of personal shame. It took three days for professional journalists to wrench these facts out of him ...

Let us not forget, he is very good at lecturing others about their tax affairs. He did a speech in 2013 where he talked about the tax avoidance industry, people being surrounded by an army of lawyers and accountants to try and avoid paying tax. He told high-profile individuals that their tax arrangements were morally wrong. Well, now we know that he was involved in the same kind of schemes. And I think it is only right that our prime minister tells the people whether he had any other investments or not."

Watson?  You're quoting a Hamas-loving, IRA-loving, Trot at me?  Speaking about ethics?!  Good grief.

 

Cameron hasn't broken any laws, he hasn't avoided tax, he hasn't done anything ethically, morally or legally wrong.  The End.

[WearyRhino]

Watson? You're quoting a Hamas-loving, IRA-loving, Trot at me? Speaking about ethics?! Good grief..

Oh dear. I'm not sure who you are confusing prominent Zionist Tom Watson with but ignorant confusion does seem to be a default position for you.

[Saintslass]

Oh dear. I'm not sure who you are confusing prominent Zionist Tom Watson with but ignorant confusion does seem to be a default position for you.

I believe Labour have half heartedly started its own investigation into the alarming rise of antisemitism within its ranks.  However, if things continue to go the way they have been going I can see an internal investigation not being enough and one of the first people I'd start looking at closely is Tom Watson.  The other is Jeremy Corbyn.  As for Ken Livingstone ...

[Ramite]

Watson? You're quoting a Hamas-loving, IRA-loving, Trot at me? Speaking about ethics?! Good grief.

Cameron hasn't broken any laws, he hasn't avoided tax, he hasn't done anything ethically, morally or legally wrong. The End.

Tom Watson is still correct regardless of his other views. It is how it looks he is PM and he should be held to the highest standards. It has taken 4 days for him to drop feed the info out this sort of thing lends to his character. He has come up short. If you can't see that or choose not to then you are Samantha Cameron and icmfp

[WearyRhino]

I believe Labour have half heartedly started its own investigation into the alarming rise of antisemitism within its ranks. However, if things continue to go the way they have been going I can see an internal investigation not being enough and one of the first people I'd start looking at closely is Tom Watson. The other is Jeremy Corbyn. As for Ken Livingstone ...

Your ignorance knows no bounds. Tom Watson is chair of a Trade Union Friends of Israel and is an avowed Zionist.

[Bedford Roughyed]

The Tory press is happily stabbing Cameron in the back, yet it's just a leftie organised witch hunt?

[Futtocks]

The Tory press is happily stabbing Cameron in the back, yet it's just a leftie organised witch hunt?

Yes. It is a Trotskyist conspiracy by the Telegraph, Mail and Express. Bunch of pinkos who should go back to Russia, FACT.

[Bedford Roughyed]

And this is all about Brexit.  Leavers are happy to shaft their own government to push for Brexit.  

[Griff9of13]

And this is all about Brexit. Leavers are happy to shaft their own government to push for Brexit.

Yet according to the press it's Corbyn who's under pressure from his own side. If Corbyn can present an almost united front behind the remain campaign (there are a very small number of Labour backbenchers supporting brexit, but no big names) then even he's going to appear statesman like compared to the disintegrating rabble across the chamber floor.

[RidingPie]

Yet according to the press it's Corbyn who's under pressure from his own side. If Corbyn can present an almost united front behind the remain campaign (there are a very small number of Labour backbenchers supporting brexit, but no big names) then even he's going to appear statesman like compared to the disintegrating rabble across the chamber floor.

I always thought that the best way for labour to handle the referendum would have been for Corbyn to get up and say something like "all of labour say vote remain. This is an expensive civil war within the Conservative party which is costing the tax payer upwards of £80 million"

Sadly though he couldn't do that, although the number of labour MPs backing leave is relatively small.

[Saintslass]

Tom Watson is still correct regardless of his other views. It is how it looks he is PM and he should be held to the highest standards. It has taken 4 days for him to drop feed the info out this sort of thing lends to his character. He has come up short. If you can't see that or choose not to then you are Samantha Cameron and icmfp

Whether it has taken Cameron four days, four hours or four weeks to explain in full his position that doesn't change the FACT that he has done nothing wrong and so has met those 'highest standards' of which you speak.  That really is the end of the matter.  The story has already slipped down the rankings on the BBC news bulletins and I'm sure within a couple of days it will have disappeared altogether from most media outlets (Guardian and Mirror probably excepted), regardless of the efforts of Labour to create a work of fiction.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Nope not the telegraph, mail, times...

They are silent in the issue, just the leftie bbc, mirror and guardinistas.

[Futtocks]

Whether it has taken Cameron four days, four hours or four weeks to explain in full his position that doesn't change the FACT that he has done nothing wrong and so has met those 'highest standards' of which you speak.  That really is the end of the matter.  The story has already slipped down the rankings on the BBC news bulletins and I'm sure within a couple of days it will have disappeared altogether from most media outlets (Guardian and Mirror probably excepted), regardless of the efforts of Labour to create a work of fiction.

Maybe denial is a river in Egypt...

[Griff9of13]

Maybe denial is a river in Egypt...

To maintain this is some sort of left wing plot is more delusional than denial.