The Panama Papers

[Ramite]

It will be much like the MPs expenses , drip fed for quite a while.

[JohnM]

Is Russel Band on the list? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531611/Hey-Russell-meet-working-class-Workers-arrive-anti-capitalist-comic-Brand-s-3-3m-thatched-cottage-plans-add-pool-cinema.html

[Bedford Roughyed]

The American bit allegedly is taking more time. I think partly due to the fact you don't need to go offshore to have secretive ownership structures.

Some states don't require you to register who owns what.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Lefty communist bedwetting Mail on Sunday going for Cameron again.

[Griff9of13]

Is Russel Band on the list? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531611/Hey-Russell-meet-working-class-Workers-arrive-anti-capitalist-comic-Brand-s-3-3m-thatched-cottage-plans-add-pool-cinema.html

Ah yes, the politics of envy. Such a bad thing.

[Futtocks]

Is Russel Band on the list? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531611/Hey-Russell-meet-working-class-Workers-arrive-anti-capitalist-comic-Brand-s-3-3m-thatched-cottage-plans-add-pool-cinema.html

To be honest, I hope he isn't, as any media attention would just prolong his 15 minutes of fame.

[gingerjon]

Lefty communist bedwetting Mail on Sunday going for Cameron again.

 

Getting it with both barrels from the Telegraph and Times who, as we all know, are simply front organisations for the lefty BBC.

[JohnM]

I’ve deliberately stayed out of this orgy of hatred until the baying mob is sated. Nearly there, I think: even you bar-room rebels get tired eventually.

 

The issue is less to do with profiting from stolen documents than it is an opportunity for all of Cameron’s enemies, left, right and centre to stick the knife in, regardless of consequence. True we now live in a society where theft (and profiting from the that theft) is not only rife, it is the chosen weapon of opposition by a number of pressure groups that cite the public interest for their illegal activities.

 

Indeed, in this case, a valid claim and in other fields, too, whistleblowers have a role to play.

 

In that spirit, I look forward to the publishing of documents stolen from the Police Federation, The British Medical Association, Left Unity Momentum, The Centre for Investigative Journalism, Guardian News and Media and more. However, none of them has the balls to breach the recent “threesome” injunction, even though we all know who it involves.

 

Corbyn’s accusations of hypocrisy don’t hold water, either, though if his wish to see the sins of the father visited on the son come true, there are going to be a lot of embarrassed Labourites who have profited from their parents investment in property, in the markets and in private education for their offspring, or in Corbyn’s case, the hated Grammar School.

 

Sure, it’s the left’s job to go for Cameron, to re-run the class war politics and politics of envy of the past and to scoff at wealth creation and to downplay the Governments many achievements: Labour is in opposition and they have no other weapons.

 

Cameron is hated by the right wing Europhobes, too, for his pro-EU stance, for his work on same-sex marriage, for his foreign aid spending. The right wing press hate him with a vengeance for exactly the same reasons, too.

 

Not sure if the Lib Dems hate him or not, as they continue to be the political equivalent of a postage stamp sized Jackson Pollock work.

 

Nicola hates him too, because he has just taken all the wind out of her sails by giving her more or less everything she asked for.

 

There is of course a real danger in this: the possibility of a British exit from the EU. To have left and right united against Cameron increases the chances of success for a “leave” vote.. Get rid of Cameron and there is a real risk of Brexit.

 

Is that what you really want?

[JohnM]

Getting it with both barrels from the Telegraph and Times who, as we all know, are simply front organisations for the lefty BBC.

There is joy unconstrained at Guardian TV. Saturation coverage, a level of imbalance that exceeds anything previously displayed by the tax avoiding BBC and it's presenters and their now outlawed tax avoiding service companies. Hypocrisy doesn't begin to cover it.

As for the Mail and Telegraph, any fule kno' it's about the EU, same sex marriage and foreign aid.

I'd have thought all you left liberal thinkers would agree with Cameron on those points

[Saintslass]

Good posts JohnM.

 

Meanwhile, apparently the problem now is that Cameron's Mum gave him two lots of £100,000 by doing what anyone with any sense does: giving financial gifts seven years before death so as to avoid maximum inheritance tax.  My uncle and aunt did the same thing.  They sold their semi detached house, shared out the profits between their children, kept enough for themselves to pay rent on the property they moved in to, and thus avoided inheritance tax.  The seven year gap is there in law.  If it wasn't there then nobody would be able to avoid paying inheritance tax.  It isn't illegal to use the gap but apparently David Cameron's Mum shouldn't do what every other Brit does if they have an ounce of commonsense.

 

The witch hunt is becoming dull.  Lefties on the one hand can't stand the fact that Cameron is rich and has still done absolutely nothing wrong.  Righties on the other hand can't stand the fact that Cameron is pro EU and has still done absolutely nothing wrong.  It's all rather pathetic. 

 

I hope Cameron holds his nerve as he has done nothing wrong.

[John Drake]

Just a quick reminder, personal digs/insults aimed at other members of the forum are not acceptable on here.

 

Stick to the point, not the person.

 

Thank you.

[Ramite]

Good posts JohnM.

Meanwhile, apparently the problem now is that Cameron's Mum gave him two lots of £100,000 by doing what anyone with any sense does: giving financial gifts seven years before death so as to avoid maximum inheritance tax. My uncle and aunt did the same thing. They sold their semi detached house, shared out the profits between their children, kept enough for themselves to pay rent on the property they moved in to, and thus avoided inheritance tax. The seven year gap is there in law. If it wasn't there then nobody would be able to avoid paying inheritance tax. It isn't illegal to use the gap but apparently David Cameron's Mum shouldn't do what every other Brit does if they have an ounce of commonsense.

The witch hunt is becoming dull. Lefties on the one hand can't stand the fact that Cameron is rich and has still done absolutely nothing wrong. Righties on the other hand can't stand the fact that Cameron is pro EU and has still done absolutely nothing wrong. It's all rather pathetic.

I hope Cameron holds his nerve as he has done nothing wrong.

It's not about what he has done now , it why he couldn't give a straight answer and it took 4 statements to get an answer. For a PR man he has made a total mess of this.He may just ride this out but up next is local elections , then the biggest vote of his career.

[Robin Evans]

He's safe. He'll front this one up, explain away poor local election as mid term protest and will be home dry when the uk votes to remain in the EU by about a 55/45 split.

Unless there is a serious challenge on his leadership.... and for the life of me I can't seen even the strongest of tory europhobes doing that at this particular juncture, he'll squirm his was past owt the mail/express etc throw at him.

[Phil]

Cameron on ITV news " I obviously can't point to every source of every bit of the money"

But why not? Isn't that exactly what HMRC require from the rest of us?

[ckn]

Cameron on ITV news " I obviously can't point to every source of every bit of the money"

But why not? Isn't that exactly what HMRC require from the rest of us?

HMRC's long established stance is that if you can't show where either money came from or where it went then you're hiding something and it's time for the rubber gloves to come out.  There is though a limit to this, the HMRC tax manual states that you MUST keep all records relating to income and taxation for 22 months from the end of a tax year, that means that Cameron could already legally dispose of everything to do with his past income relating to tax year 2013/14 and earlier.

[Futtocks]

The Guardian and Mirror are pushing the story to try and get rid of David Cameron, because they are from the Labour/LibDem end of the spectrum and they obviously don't want a third term of Conservative government. 

 

The Telegraph, Mail, Times and Express are pushing the story to make David Cameron look less trustworthy than the pro-Brexit campaigners, with a secondary aim of replacing him with (a very deeply obligated) one of their own, if Cameron has to step down after losing the EU Referendum. A replacement PM who will promise to take a very strong stance against press regulation/responsibility.

 

But, according to some, this is nothing but a 100% Trotskyist smear-job.

[Phil]

The Guardian and Mirror are pushing the story to try and get rid of David Cameron, because they are from the Labour/LibDem end of the spectrum and they obviously don't want a third term of Conservative government.

The Telegraph, Mail, Times and Express are pushing the story to make David Cameron look less trustworthy than the pro-Brexit campaigners, with a secondary aim of replacing him with (a very deeply obligated) one of their own, if Cameron has to step down after losing the EU Referendum. A replacement PM who will promise to take a very strong stance against press regulation/responsibility.

But, according to some, this is nothing but a 100% Trotskyist smear-job.

Indeed, according to some on here

[Saintslass]

Cameron on ITV news " I obviously can't point to every source of every bit of the money"

But why not? Isn't that exactly what HMRC require from the rest of us?

Would he necessarily know where the money from his Mum came from for example?

[Griff9of13]

Would he necessarily know where the money from his Mum came from for example?

I would imagine HMRC would take the same view as any law breaking; that ignorance is no excuse.

[gingerjon]

I know it's simpler to make it about Cameron's character but let's bear this in mind as well.  This Panama scheme - and the many others that flow through or terminate in the Crown controlled tax havens that the British government not only allows to grow but also blocks any attempts for greater transparency and honesty - features a lot of very, very dodgy people who are using it not only to scrub money clean but then to create further dodgy wealth, for example through the legal but dubious purchase of companies, property and art, principally in London.  This is an area that has required toughening up on for a very long time.  But the government has been reticent to do so.  And now we have the members of the government with greatest clout over this dark world being found to profit from it - to an extent that they can't even give clear answers on how much they've profited from it.

[ckn]

I know it's simpler to make it about Cameron's character but let's bear this in mind as well.  This Panama scheme - and the many others that flow through or terminate in the Crown controlled tax havens that the British government not only allows to grow but also blocks any attempts for greater transparency and honesty - features a lot of very, very dodgy people who are using it not only to scrub money clean but then to create further dodgy wealth, for example through the legal but dubious purchase of companies, property and art, principally in London.  This is an area that has required toughening up on for a very long time.  But the government has been reticent to do so.  And now we have the members of the government with greatest clout over this dark world being found to profit from it - to an extent that they can't even give clear answers on how much they've profited from it.

You're right there.  Just to enable a few wealthy people to make a bit more money on the grey market, the government allow money laundering on a massive scale.

 

On a separate topic, the attack on Cameron in getting money from his mum to avoid potential inheritance tax is just pathetic, especially from the media sources that have long criticised wealth-jealousy from the "left".  It's a well known and well used, perfectly legal tactic that is actually encouraged, the situation has been the same for decades.  Move your money seven years or more before you die and it's 100% inheritance tax free, it's irrelevant whether it's £10 from your gran for your birthday or £200,000 from your mum to stop a big tax bill.

[gingerjon]

You're right there.  Just to enable a few wealthy people to make a bit more money on the grey market, the government allow money laundering on a massive scale.

 

On a separate topic, the attack on Cameron in getting money from his mum to avoid potential inheritance tax is just pathetic, especially from the media sources that have long criticised wealth-jealousy from the "left".  It's a well known and well used, perfectly legal tactic that is actually encouraged, the situation has been the same for decades.  Move your money seven years or more before you die and it's 100% inheritance tax free, it's irrelevant whether it's £10 from your gran for your birthday or £200,000 from your mum to stop a big tax bill.

 

I do agree it's pathetic but I thought - from the headlines - that it was money left to his mother that she then gifted her son.  Which, again, is the size of sum and obviousness of action that would often draw at least a polite inquiry from HMRC.  (Apologies if I've got the nature of it wrong).

[ckn]

I do agree it's pathetic but I thought - from the headlines - that it was money left to his mother that she then gifted her son.  Which, again, is the size of sum and obviousness of action that would often draw at least a polite inquiry from HMRC.  (Apologies if I've got the nature of it wrong).

There is no inheritance tax from husband to wife.  Any money Cameron's dad's left to his wife is hers, both legally and ethically, to do with as she sees fit.  That's why the story is so pathetic really, this is the least contentious thing to do with Cameron in the last week or two.

[gingerjon]

From Twitter:

 

[Griff9of13]

The only way there could be anything wrong with this latest "revelation" would be if the £200k originated from some dodgy tax evading dealings by Cameron snr. But no one seems to be making that link, therefore it's very much a non-story.