The Panama Papers

[Saintslass]

It was evasive at best and makes him look shifty.

It was evasive, yes.  But being evasive isn't being dishonest. 

[Saintslass]

TBH I thought that was a ~"given"    There was a guy on Today at 7-10 this morning trying to explain why Cameron had done nothing wrong.  Presumably legally he hasn't.  But he and Osborne are supposed to be against this sort of ting in principle - aren't they?  Well they say they are.

What?  Cameron paid the relevant UK taxes when they fell due.  That's what Cameron and Osborne have been calling for, so how are they against it?

[Trojan]

What?  Cameron paid the relevant UK taxes when they fell due.  That's what Cameron and Osborne have been calling for, so how are they against it?

No they've been calling for an end to tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. I'd guess that Cameron's dad's scheme falls into the latter category.  Why else have a scheme in Panama?

[Derwent]

No they've been calling for an end to tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance. I'd guess that Cameron's dad's scheme falls into the latter category.  Why else have a scheme in Panama?

 

The scheme in Panama was there to minimise the taxes of the overall company not of its investors. By avoiding corporation taxes then it becomes more profitable and each shareholder gets a better return on their investment. But, each investor would still have to pay tax on their dividends or gains when they sold the shares. It is not a vehicle to avoid personal tax, more a profit increasing method for the company. Some people fail to grasp this.

 

Here's the rub though. Have you got a pension fund ? Chances are some of your fund is invested somewhere in one of these schemes. You won't know about it, have no control over it, but there is a very good chance that you are also a beneficiary of such schemes.

[Mark S]

I would rather he didn't resign, the way the media are laying into him it looks like someone is pulling strings to get him out. No doubt to be replaced with someone that would make Thatcher look like like a Corbynister.

[Derwent]

I would rather he didn't resign, the way the media are laying into him it looks like someone is pulling strings to get him out. No doubt to be replaced with someone that would make Thatcher look like like a Corbynister.

 

Well this is a case of "be careful what you wish for". If Cameron is hounded out then you will get BoJo or, god forbid, Osborne stepping in.

[RidingPie]

"Again let me put my cards squarely on the table. Of course there is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Evasion is illegal. It can and should be subject to the full force of the criminal law. But what about tax avoidance? Now of course there’s nothing wrong with sensible tax planning and there are some things that governments want people to do that reduce tax bills, such as investing in a pension, a start up business or giving money to a charity. But there are some forms of avoidance that have become so aggressive that I think it is right to say these raise ethical issues, and it is time to call for more responsibility and for governments to act accordingly."

This was David Cameron's words in 2013. He is a hypocrite to these words!

[Bedford Roughyed]

Did he declare the £30000 on the register of interest in parliament? If not I'm sure it was just an oversight.

[WearyRhino]

It was evasive, yes. But being evasive isn't being dishonest.

Yes it is.

[Phil]

This issue is a matter of public standards. If Cameron is allowed to simply brush off his failure to declare his financial interests in his fathers' offshore business empire for nine years of his parliamentary career as some kind of oversight, or try to argue that "it wasn't against the exact letter of the law - so it's OK" - the public would be giving our acquiescence to more of this kind of moral impropriety in the future.

 

If David Cameron doesn't have the moral decency to resign over this issue (which no doubt he doesn't), the British public have a duty to make him resign, otherwise we'd be sending the message to all the other self-serving MPs in parliament that they're absolutely fine to continue owning and not declaring significant chunks of offshore business empires.

[Derwent]

Did he declare the £30000 on the register of interest in parliament? If not I'm sure it was just an oversight.

He wouldn't be required to. They only have to register any shareholding worth more than £59,000 or which is more than 15% of the total company shares. As he had £30k of a £25m fund then it doesn't qualify on either criteria.

[gingerjon]

He wouldn't be required to. They only have to register any shareholding worth more than £59,000 or which is more than 15% of the total company shares. As he had £30k of a £25m fund then it doesn't qualify on either criteria.

Just as well these and related rules and laws are made by people with no self interest in the situation.

[Derwent]

Just as well these and related rules and laws are made by people with no self interest in the situation.

Yes but let's not kid ourselves that it is only one side of the political divide at it. IIRC, wasn't Ken Livingstone using a tax avoidance scheme to minimise his tax a few years ago ?

[gingerjon]

Yes but let's not kid ourselves that it is only one side of the political divide at it. IIRC, wasn't Ken Livingstone using a tax avoidance scheme to minimise his tax a few years ago ?

I have no idea. When he's PM maybe that will be relevant.

[Phil]

Yes but let's not kid ourselves that it is only one side of the political divide at it. IIRC, wasn't Ken Livingstone using a tax avoidance scheme to minimise his tax a few years ago ?

Whataboutism

[Futtocks]

Well this is a case of "be careful what you wish for". If Cameron is hounded out then you will get BoJo or, god forbid, Osborne stepping in.

That's the unpleasant choice, isn't it? With the LibDem party a ghost of itself, a Corbyn-led Labour feuding internally and, anyway, several years 'til the next General Election, David Cameron (of all people) may be the least toxic realistic option for the next few years.

 

It is hardly a compliment to the man, mind...

[John Drake]

Well this is a case of "be careful what you wish for". If Cameron is hounded out then you will get BoJo or, god forbid, Osborne stepping in.

 

That would only be bringing forward the inevitable, given that Cameron has already said he'll be stepping down before the next (scheduled) General Election anyway.

 

Looking at the mess he and his government are in now, on several fronts, I wonder if 'be careful what you wish for' also applies to those Tories who were dancing a jig at the outright majority Cameron won for them in May 2015?

 

Things were so much easier when they had the Lib Dems to use as human shields; now they have to take all the flak themselves.

[Derwent]

Whataboutism

No it isn't. I'm merely pointing out that greed isn't confined to one rosette colour. I'm not defending Cameron, I'm not criticising Livingstone. I just get sick of people frothing at the mouth without actually understanding the issues sometimes.

[Derwent]

That would only be bringing forward the inevitable, given that Cameron has already said he'll be stepping down before the next (scheduled) General Election anyway.

 

Looking at the mess he and his government are in now, on several fronts, I wonder if 'be careful what you wish for' also applies to those Tories who were dancing a jig at the outright majority Cameron won for them in May 2015?

 

Things were so much easier when they had the Lib Dems to use as human shields; now they have to take all the flak themselves.

Well I'd have thought anybody who supports staying in the EU would be hoping Cameron remains in office for the time being ?

[John Drake]

Well I'd have thought anybody who supports staying in the EU would be hoping Cameron remains in office for the time being ?

 

It's his fault we're having the referendum in the first place, having used it as a bargaining chip gambling the country's future to save his own political skin from his 'outers' last year, and right now, I doubt he is much of an asset to the 'IN' campaign anymore, if he ever was.

 

If he goes, he goes.

[Mark S]

Maybe IDS know this, or something similar was about to come out and ruin any trust people had in the front bench. If Cameron does go there should be an election, not just replacement.

[RidingPie]

Whilst you might not like him John, don't underestimate the regard he holds with the general public. Among all the options for PM from all parties, he's the only one with a positive opinion rating.

[RidingPie]

Maybe IDS know this, or something similar was about to come out and ruin any trust people had in the front bench. If Cameron does go there should be an election, not just replacement.

In fairness I've always though a change of PM should trigger a general election with in 3 months, I did when Major took over, then when Brown did, and it looks like that will happen again. (At least Major later won an election to his credit)

I appreciate that isn't how our system works but if someone put that in their manifesto I'd be very interested.

[Griff9of13]

In fairness I've always though a change of PM should trigger a general election with in 3 months, I did when Major took over, then when Brown did, and it looks like that will happen again. (At least Major later won an election to his credit)

I appreciate that isn't how our system works but if someone put that in their manifesto I'd be very interested.

 

I agree, though like you said that's not how our system works. Technically the only voters who can chose a PM are those in the constituency of the eventual winning party. We all elect our individual MPs, they group themselves together into political parties and those parties choose their leader who will be the PM. Not particularly democratic when you think about it like that.

 

I agree with what others have said about being careful what you wish for; who knows what damage four years of PM Boris could do to the country!

[John Drake]

Whilst you might not like him John, don't underestimate the regard he holds with the general public. Among all the options for PM from all parties, he's the only one with a positive opinion rating.

 

I understand that he was more popular (or should that be less disliked) by the public than other leaders, but I'd be interested to see what his popularity ratings are right now. A week really is a long time in politics. I remember when Tony Blair used to be popular. Look at him now.