Rimmer "Philadelphia & other north american cities interested in joining league structure"

[The Parksider]

9 minutes ago, GaryO said:

Should your 8 big players now read 7, surely HKR plying their trade in the Championship excludes Hudgell from that SL sub Committee? 

From the purist point of view yes, but I'd be sure that Mr. Hudgell is a temporary absence from any vote but certainly not from the SLE table.

Licensing or straight P & R will see him regain his vote unless Rovers do a Bradford, as for that temporary absence losing him any say I doubt it very much as in recent years he's been shoulder to shoulder condemning the RFL in public with Mr. Pearson (pictured under the Humber bridge), and was the spokesperson  who told the RFL publicly through the  Yorkshire Post the RFL had better watch it.

He's "one of their own" Gary.......

[Bob8]

 

3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

This too is an excellent point.

Being a benevolent chairman can (up to a salary cap point) can give you one heck of a say. However that say was grabbed by the 1996 SL chairmen anyway when they scuttled into Leeds City centre to open the offices of "Super League Europe" Ltd. The grab for power is 20 years old but the emergence of some big players like Caddick, Moran, Lenegan, McManus, Davey, Koukash, Pearson and  Hudgell, provides an overwhelming presence over the likes of Rimmer and Wood as they make their redundancies and shrink Red Hall accordingly.

The RFL look shot now, how does that powerbase above compare with the other 32 small to tiny entities that the RFL may be backed by, but have few votes to add against the big eight!!

I think now SL have won their battle for their own SL manager the boot is on the other foot. It will be up to these gentlemen if any of the places Wood and Rimmer wax lyrical about can come in Superleague.

Historically Lewis had the arguments and wherewithall to swing London back into SL post collapse, then swing Les Catalans a two year licence, then swing Crusaders a spot by making SL a 14 club league. 

SL chairmen could have and can still say no. They only lost the last battle in two ways, firstly there was no time left to argue the plans for SL post 2013 as the 2014 season was just weeks away when the matters were debated, secondly the TV deal the RFL had obtained was an instant saviour for clubs and that swung the vote by one.

New SL clubs will be I'm sure now decided upon by eight gentlemen named above and Ralph Rimmer will not be one of them

Thank you for the kind words.

I agree the trend is that way.  However, with the return to P&R without standards or licensing, I wonder which set of clubs is in the ascent at the moment.  The big clubs would can see that things cannot carry on the way that they are and are willing to risk big changes as they see nothing to lose and a chance of being part of a more prosperous league.  Personally, I see Richard Lewis as having his power base with these clubs.

The smaller clubs see they have everything to lose, as big clubs in Super League would have no use for Leigh or similar level clubs and they would have no future in the game.  The only change will be through necessity.  I see Nigel Wood as having his power base with these clubs.  He has to keep the top clubs just on board enough to not revolt.

[GaryO]

2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

From the purist point of view yes, but I'd be sure that Mr. Hudgell is a temporary absence from any vote but certainly not from the SLE table.

Licensing or straight P & R will see him regain his vote unless Rovers do a Bradford, as for that temporary absence losing him any say I doubt it very much as in recent years he's been shoulder to shoulder condemning the RFL in public with Mr. Pearson (pictured under the Humber bridge), and was the spokesperson  who told the RFL publicly through the  Yorkshire Post the RFL had better watch it.

He's "one of their own" Gary.......

So you think that Hudgell is still privvy and allowed to have an input into the inside workings of SLE even though he is technically not a member, can't imagine for a moment that the constitution of that orgsnisation would allow in non members.

[The Future is League]

15 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Well you miss the point, you assume that if Toulouse win MPG promotion the SL clubs will have to like it or lump it as they voted for it. Six big clubs didn't.

Superleague Europe Ltd. run aspects of Superleague and have done for 20 years. If the RFL want to put Cairo or Kabul into the Championships that has nothing to do with Superleague Europe Ltd.

If Toulouse were to win the Championship and MPG this year but fail to provide a TV deal, not get any further forward on junior development, and be unable to prove any significant backing for their SL campaign then the Superleague chairmen who set these ground rules without any reference to the RFL will have something to say.

The interesting thing (for those interested, some can't even get their heads around there being two conflicting managing bodies and mock the idea) is on the split in the vote for P & R Six existing SL clubs voted against the system, big clubs at that. 

But two big clubs, Leeds and St.Helens who didn't vote with the six, were part of the quartet that backed Toulouse for inclusion in Superleague NOT if they win promotion but only if they will add crowds, players and significant TV money and local investment to the party.

I have yet to see any withdrawal from that position, but obviously what amounts to possibly every rich chairman in the league being behind Mr. Lenegan possibly needing to challenge the RFL on Toulouse's inclusion hasn't arisen yet. That will come if Toulouse ever get near being promoted and I doubt that will happen before the league structure is changed, so no need to have a public row (which some will miss anyway) now. 

So there is no P & R and no licensing just a botched up rule in between.

Am old boys clubs where the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Warrington decide matters that are best for them but not for Rugby League.

Is it any wonder that Rugby League in this country is going backwards.

[The Parksider]

5 hours ago, The Future is League said:

So there is no P & R and no licensing just a botched up rule in between.

Am old boys clubs where the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Warrington decide matters that are best for them but not for Rugby League.

Is it any wonder that Rugby League in this country is going backwards.

All I'm pointing out is like Catalans, Toulouse are here as guests, and it's up to Superleague to decide if they want to invite the guests in. As I have also said the top Chairmen have gone to see their prospective guests to explain what they would like from them if they are to come into SL.

There was no animosity, or disappointment expressed by Toulouse. They appear to agree that if they want an invite to the party they should bring some flowers and a couple of bottles of something, maybe bring a few vol au vents.

How you re-read that to an old boys club putting the shutters up I don't know.

See the other thread for going backwards, where it's heartily suggested we should abandon SKY and summer rugby and go back part time........

[The Parksider]

18 hours ago, GaryO said:

So you think that Hudgell is still privvy and allowed to have an input into the inside workings of SLE even though he is technically not a member, can't imagine for a moment that the constitution of that orgsnisation would allow in non members.

I can't do more than tell you Hudgell and Pearson are close, and think the same on several important matters, and Hudgell has spoken publicly on behalf of Lenegan, Pearson, Moran, Davey and Koukash. He's their brief.

Those six chairman have worked together against the RFL for several years now, I can accept that  Mr. Hudgell may not be asked to sit in any formal Supereague meeting, perhaps you can accept that once the formal meeting closes Hudgell will be in direct contact with the other five (He may be in the Queens Hotel down the road from SLE HQ)) and will get as big a say as his mates, albeit not the vote.

What we don't know is what is the power base with Hudgell's vote gone. All I can speculate is whatever Koukash votes Beaumont will follow. I can't see new kid Derek getting much of a say, and he'll be in the meeting probably carrying Kooks bags.

As for Hudgell, maybe he can order up the drinks and food in the Queens when Pearson phones him to say the meeting is finished, see you in five minutes, get them in...........

[The Future is League]

22 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

in. As I have also said the top Chairmen have gone to see their prospective guests to explain what they would like from them if they are to come into SL.

There was no animosity, or disappointment expressed by Toulouse. They appear to agree that if they want an invite to the party they should bring some flowers and a couple of bottles of something, maybe bring a few vol au vents.

How you re-read that to an old boys club putting the shutters up I don't know.

See the other thread for going backwards, where it's heartily suggested we should abandon SKY and summer rugby and go back part time........

"All I'm pointing out is like Catalans, Toulouse are here as guests, and it's up to Superleague to decide if they want to invite the guests"

So what you are really saying is there is no automatic promotion between the Championship and Super League, therefore no P & R.

 

[The Parksider]

18 hours ago, Bob8 said:

 

Thank you for the kind words.

I agree the trend is that way.  However, with the return to P&R without standards or licensing, I wonder which set of clubs is in the ascent at the moment.  The big clubs would can see that things cannot carry on the way that they are and are willing to risk big changes as they see nothing to lose and a chance of being part of a more prosperous league.  Personally, I see Richard Lewis as having his power base with these clubs.

The smaller clubs see they have everything to lose, as big clubs in Super League would have no use for Leigh or similar level clubs and they would have no future in the game.  The only change will be through necessity.  I see Nigel Wood as having his power base with these clubs.  He has to keep the top clubs just on board enough to not revolt.

I remember the complete intransigence as regards letting London continue in SL Bob, I remember Lewis's approach as possibly being something like "expand or die". As always we do not exactly know what was said but it's alleged Lewis threatened to resign over London. That he then got his way and again got his way easily with Catalans and Celtic Crusaders  appears to show who was leading who.

In those meetings Lewis must have made the point that the brave new world of Superleague and the expansion to London, Paris, Barcelona, Wales, Newcastle Rome etc had collapsed from the 1996 plans to a near all M62 league if London went. 

A powerful argument that appeared to work

But we have now worked through that expansion agenda and it won't wash with SL that expansion is the name of the game (The Toronto mob are too far in front of themselves) more like survival. If Rimmer is now saying "expand or die" in his promotion of all these new clubs, I expect that to rightly fall on deaf ears.

The die was cast in Toulouse several years ago. you want SL? Then show us the money, show us the TV deal and show us the home grown RL players, do not expect to take our money and players.

Do not expect us to move aside for you or go back to 14 clubs unless YOU are paying.....

[The Parksider]

12 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So what you are really saying is there is no automatic promotion between the Championship and Super League, therefore no P & R.

There is for member clubs but not necessarily guests. Also don't forget you can't make clubs go up either Batley have rejected SL ambition. Also Hunslet and Dewsbury won promotion and didn't get it so that's why you need to drop the "automatic" with great respect.

[Bob8]

8 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

I remember the complete intransigence as regards letting London continue in SL Bob, I remember Lewis's approach as possibly being something like "expand or die". As always we do not exactly know what was said but it's alleged Lewis threatened to resign over London. That he then got his way and again got his way easily with Catalans and Celtic Crusaders  appears to show who was leading who.

In those meetings Lewis must have made the point that the brave new world of Superleague and the expansion to London, Paris, Barcelona, Wales, Newcastle Rome etc had collapsed from the 1996 plans to a near all M62 league if London went. 

A powerful argument that appeared to work

But we have now worked through that expansion agenda and it won't wash with SL that expansion is the name of the game (The Toronto mob are too far in front of themselves) more like survival. If Rimmer is now saying "expand or die" in his promotion of all these new clubs, I expect that to rightly fall on deaf ears.

The die was cast in Toulouse several years ago. you want SL? Then show us the money, show us the TV deal and show us the home grown RL players, do not expect to take our money and players.

Do not expect us to move aside for you or go back to 14 clubs unless YOU are paying.....

Indeed, back in the day, I believe the RFL took the same approach to rugby league in Italy and Yugoslavia.

Richard Lewis could also resign and threaten to go to a better job.  Nigel Wood is rugby league through and through and does not have that option.  He is more in hoc that Lewis I would suggest.

[The Parksider]

14 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Indeed, back in the day, I believe the RFL took the same approach to rugby league in Italy and Yugoslavia.

Richard Lewis could also resign and threaten to go to a better job.  Nigel Wood is rugby league through and through and does not have that option.  He is more in hoc that Lewis I would suggest.

I'm not sure Lewis threatening to resign ever swung Les Catalans or Crusaders both after the event radical inclusions. I'd like to think the Chairmen decided to give expansion as good a shot as they could. But all this talk of new clubs from America by the governing body smacks of trying to claim a new success in expanding the game before it has even expanded.

I'm just thinking of the way in which Toronto has got a team together, This seems to include a dozen English players which goes against the "develop your own" requirement placed on Toulouse by SL chairmen but of course it's early yet.

However if progress up the leagues is faster that North American player development Toronto will need better players next year in the Championship, so will they be signing more English players of a better standard. Will Philapelphia  sign up the English cast offs from Toronto? Will the ability to spend £1.85M in wages with personal guarantees prize good players from Batley, Rochdale and Feathersone.

If the North Americans will all be on the up and dragging English players out of skint English championship clubs what do we end up with. A queue of north American clubs who have stood on the heads of championship clubs and depleted their playing rosters, demanding entry to SL whilst failing to meet the criteria of "home grown players please".

I can't see Superleague putting out the welcome mat could you? I can't see several championship clubs shorn of players slipping into CC1 for maybe the first time being that pleased, Where does this all end up 

[damp squib]

On the contrary I would love to see a situation where currently semi-professional players get a chance at a full time contract. Or where SL clubs not playing full cap lose players to a side willing to pay them a good wage.

Players will be developed in North America in a realistic time, not overnight as some are suggesting. In the meantime increasing the number of professional pathways for English RL players can only be a good thing. A point you have made more than once Parky.

[The Parksider]

54 minutes ago, damp squib said:

On the contrary I would love to see a situation where currently semi-professional players get a chance at a full time contract. Or where SL clubs not playing full cap lose players to a side willing to pay them a good wage.

Players will be developed in North America in a realistic time, not overnight as some are suggesting. In the meantime increasing the number of professional pathways for English RL players can only be a good thing. A point you have made more than once Parky.

If North American clubs want to populate the Championships and professionalise them then great in theory, but after being shut out of Superleague and in decline as a result how do the part time  English Championship clubs then go when there's four north american professional clubs with all their best players in there sitting 1, 2, 3 and 4th. in the Championship??

Having played second fiddle to Superleague for 20 years our Championship clubs are pretty much in a depressed state, what happens to interest in them when the Featherstone's, Halifax's, Dewsbury's Bradford's Sheffield's London's etc end up third tier to SL and the Professional Americans?

Rimmer doesn't say, but I suppose the record was that in 1996 when talking Superleague these clubs didn't get a mention other than merge into the bigger English clubs. Now Rimmer is talking Supernorthenhemisphereleague I guess they aren't a consideration because they aren't the perceived future.

Then we have 12 SL clubs with four North Americans knocking hard on that door.

What's the deal to let them in?? Do we salary cap them to prevent wage inflation and our English professionals getting dragged into the big four north american clubs, in which big money depletes Wigan, Wire, Saints Hull, Leeds and Cas's playing rosters so much so they end up four places down the pecking order in some sort of mass decline whilst the four north americans compete to play at Wembley and Old Trafford.??

Or do we let them spend their much needed riches??What would you make of Philadelphia.v.Toronto with Australian and English players as the Grand Final in a few years time? Or Montreal and Pittsburgh in the RL Challenge Cup Final?? Forecasted attendances please??

Conversely we can stop that like we did to Koukash who was going to use lotsa money to leapfrog the Wigan's and Leeds and cap the North Americans. This will ensure they can't develop their teams using players Mr. Lenegan. Mr. Pearson. Mr. Moran Mr. Caddick and Mr. McManus want to keep in their teams.

They will then end up in the bottom SL spots with ambition stifled, and if that was today in the structure we now have they'd be looking at having to accept their end of seasons would be against Halifax, Fev and Dewsbury who'd provide little opposition, if they hadn't already gone bust with all the global travelling to  provide cannon fodder for the North Americans

You vision for the future Mr. Squib with respect doesn't look much further than some lucky part timers who have no ties to family and jobs being able to enjoy a few seasons as a North American transatlantic Pro RL player. However I'm looking a little further on when the proverbial must start hitting the fan.

You or anyone else care to go there??

[GaryO]

In professional and semi professional RL in the UK (I honestly don't know what the ruling is for the French teams) we have a ruling with regards the number of overseas players any club is allowed to have on their books, I have always thought the number is far to lenient and the residency rule a bit stupid, but that discussion is for another time.

Now, I should imagine the rule came about so has to not overload teams with Johnny Foreigners which would have a negative effect on our own player development and opportunities.

It seems that these North American clubs will have Carte Blanche in this respect - which I accept will have to happen immediately - but should there not be a time scale which should demand the same ruling as UK clubs have to adhere to.

N.B. A British player who is residing in the UK "Guesting" for a North American club will technically not be a resident.

As Parky says, we need to look to the future and it is up to Rimmer and Co to do this, if not I agree with Parky and can only see mass rebellion from the SL and Championship Chairmen further down the line.

 

[damp squib]

Parky the SL with four North American clubs you imagine will be a vastly different animal in terms of finances than the current SL with massively increased TV money. The Championship/1 clubs currently live off the scraps from the SL deal. In your proposed scenario the scraps they receive will be much larger. Surely nobody's vision of the future sees the transatlantic SL North American teams still living off the same £1.8m that current SL teams get?

[The Parksider]

17 hours ago, damp squib said:

Parky the SL with four North American clubs you imagine will be a vastly different animal in terms of finances than the current SL with massively increased TV money. The Championship/1 clubs currently live off the scraps from the SL deal. In your proposed scenario the scraps they receive will be much larger. Surely nobody's vision of the future sees the transatlantic SL North American teams still living off the same £1.8m that current SL teams get?

 

 

 

 

Well we have had all sorts of "visions of the future" on here down the years Mr. Squib, many of them visions but probably of the spiritual type, and most if not all of them uncosted.

What it all boils down to is what was said to Toulouse - bring a TV deal in.

So a "vision" of the future may be that four North American clubs bring a TV deal, two french clubs bring a TV deal and we line up as follows:-

Toronto, Montreal, Wigan, Leeds, Catalans, Perpignan, Pittsburgh, Warrington, Hull, Philadelphia, Bradford, Castleford, St.Helens and Salford.

If the French TV can pay £40M for this and the North Americans secure a £120M deal to add to the £120M SL clubs get then we have a  14 club trans-atlantic league on a five year £280,000,000 contract.

That will give every club a £4M subsidy every season.. This will not quite give us Parity with the NRL so we can nick all their players, So there you have my vision, what's yours??

When Toulouse, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Toronto and Montreal all sit at the top of the Championship negotiating for their TV deals as a pre-requisite for entry to Superleague three current SL clubs may be facing the chop, whilst five championship clubs will be dumped out to CC1 but it may be a price worth paying.

If this takes off as above. then it's your turn to tell us where is the next vision taking us??

How will we build on that success???

Have a go at that Mr. S. or Gary for a bit of fun........Next step??

[Alffi 7]

The Championship has already been challenged to 'win' a TV contract, in your suggestion above, would a Championship with (to pick 3 sides at random), Leigh, Wakefield and Salford, along with the likes of Bradford, Halifax, Featherstone, Bronco's etc etc be able to secure that?

 

One thing is for sure, with potential new teams springing up with no locally based players - as would be the case in Canada/USA, we would not be able to afford areas such as Wakefield (again picked out of the air before anyone gets on my back) to lose their ability to produce future SL players, so the Championship would need to become a worthwhile competition in itself.

[GaryO]

6 hours ago, Alffi 7 said:

The Championship has already been challenged to 'win' a TV contract, in your suggestion above, would a Championship with (to pick 3 sides at random), Leigh, Wakefield and Salford, along with the likes of Bradford, Halifax, Featherstone, Bronco's etc etc be able to secure that?

 

One thing is for sure, with potential new teams springing up with no locally based players - as would be the case in Canada/USA, we would not be able to afford areas such as Wakefield (again picked out of the air before anyone gets on my back) to lose their ability to produce future SL players, so the Championship would need to become a worthwhile competition in itself.

And thus the Championship provides the players that represented them to play for the Canadian/USA teams till such time as they get into SL whereby they will then require SL capable players to compete in the SL. And they will be from...................the SL clubs.

It will take a three generations minimum, maybe more, for these virgin territories to be self sufficient in providing enough players to compete at the top level, in the UK we have had 120+ years to be self sufficient in providing enough players and we can't accomplish it, if we lose the footprint of the established areas of Rugby League that so many see as surplus to requirement to make room for the new teams from overseas we will surrender the ability to produce a lot of our pro/semi-pro players, these are the lads who may learn the game then they are hoovered up by the top clubs, but they don't all originate from those towns and cities of the top clubs, a lot come from the established places were they are first introduced to the game.

 

[The Parksider]

22 hours ago, Alffi 7 said:

The Championship has already been challenged to 'win' a TV contract, in your suggestion above, would a Championship with (to pick 3 sides at random), Leigh, Wakefield and Salford, along with the likes of Bradford, Halifax, Featherstone, Bronco's etc etc be able to secure that?

One thing is for sure, with potential new teams springing up with no locally based players - as would be the case in Canada/USA, we would not be able to afford areas such as Wakefield (again picked out of the air before anyone gets on my back) to lose their ability to produce future SL players, so the Championship would need to become a worthwhile competition in itself.

The championship has never been able to secure a paid TV contract, and in the end could not give it away, and it's no good Administrators baiting them to do so when they know it isn't possible. I like the sound of your proposed Championship club make up, but remember that Championship membership depresses clubs as fans stay at home and the best players stay in SL and this doesn't put them in a great position to be an attractive prospect to broadcasters. Bradford are a big name - but are they a big pull in their current state? No. 

On Wakefield's ability to produce players, the long term RL depression in the city has seen that ability decline markedly over the years, There's just a handful of Wakefield pro's about, and I can't think of anything that depresses the game being played locally than the local pro club struggling, and worst still relegated from SL, Halifax being a great example. 

As it is the Championship provides Toronto with a team, as we progressively see more North Americans join, their money can suck more players out of British Championship clubs and send English clubs into decline.

Last year six of our traditional heartland clubs were dumped in league one. Come the North American dream each time a new club raids the championship for players, another Championship club will be binned to league one.

I now hear people say that league One is a great competition? Of course it is when it's getting packed  with traditional northern clubs. Four rich North American clubs can see Halifax Batley, Dewsbury and Swinton shoved into a third tier. 

Gary goes for three generations for North America to produce professional RL players, so in the meantime do they just sit at the top of the Championship sucking up all the decent English players who aren't in Superleague?

Or do they enter Superleague and suck up our professional player pool thus condemning possibly Leigh, Widnes, Wakefield and Huddersfield to the second tier.

You can't play sport without Winners and Losers, those who believe the North Americans can become winners should think about all the losers that will create over here.

[The Parksider]

16 hours ago, GaryO said:

If we lose the footprint of the established areas of Rugby League that so many see as surplus to requirement to make room for the new teams from overseas we will surrender the ability to produce a lot of our pro/semi-pro players, these are the lads who may learn the game then they are hoovered up by the top clubs, but they don't all originate from those towns and cities of the top clubs, a lot come from the established places were they are first introduced to the game.

Great post, I can only think that the RFL have allowed Toronto in to save their image and thus their skins. A game that peaked and has started a small decline can now boast expansion distancing thousands of miles.

I'm no fan of the third tier in which little clubs are subbed to run semi pro to provide opposition to dumped Championship clubs, sure any game of RL is great regardless of the framework it's played in, no disrespect, but there is no justification for allowing North America to experiment with the Championships.

Does this show contempt for the championships? Is Superleague seen as the be all and end all?? Is this a rhetorical question?

The RFL can swan about courting North America for some years, but Superleague chairmen run Superleague and there will either come a time when this "development" collapses (possibly through the Canadian fans initial euphoria as evidenced by an alleged 7,000 season tickets subsiding on the back of third rate RL) or there will come a time several North American clubs demand their places in SL. 

The RFL may not bother being protective of the Championships (except for Bradford Bulls obviously) but what of the SL clubs? Would the richer clubs eject fellow members to sign the "North Atlantic Treaty"

Such a sell out could be the end of RL as we know it!!!!

What price watching Leeds play a so called Toronto side with a playing roster picked from English and Australian RL, For Toronto read Salford in disguise, and where will the away fans be? What an atmosphere it will create (dead)

Methinks the novelty has to wear off sooner rather than later?

[GaryO]

8 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Great post, I can only think that the RFL have allowed Toronto in to save their image and thus their skins. A game that peaked and has started a small decline can now boast expansion distancing thousands of miles.

I'm no fan of the third tier in which little clubs are subbed to run semi pro to provide opposition to dumped Championship clubs, sure any game of RL is great regardless of the framework it's played in, no disrespect, but there is no justification for allowing North America to experiment with the Championships.

Does this show contempt for the championships? Is Superleague seen as the be all and end all?? Is this a rhetorical question?

The RFL can swan about courting North America for some years, but Superleague chairmen run Superleague and there will either come a time when this "development" collapses (possibly through the Canadian fans initial euphoria as evidenced by an alleged 7,000 season tickets subsiding on the back of third rate RL) or there will come a time several North American clubs demand their places in SL. 

The RFL may not bother being protective of the Championships (except for Bradford Bulls obviously) but what of the SL clubs? Would the richer clubs eject fellow members to sign the "North Atlantic Treaty"

Such a sell out could be the end of RL as we know it!!!!

What price watching Leeds play a so called Toronto side with a playing roster picked from English and Australian RL, For Toronto read Salford in disguise, and where will the away fans be? What an atmosphere it will create (dead)

Methinks the novelty has to wear off sooner rather than later?

I think that if a novelty rose tinted spectacle manufacturer could get his hands on this story he could make a fortune from a lot of RL supporters.

[damp squib]

It's no wonder the NFL is a little known past-time only played in tiny villages. No away fans you see.

[jim_57]

1 hour ago, damp squib said:

It's no wonder the NFL is a little known past-time only played in tiny villages. No away fans you see.

As an Australian I've never really understood the fascination with "away fans". If Parramatta get 421.07 people for a game against Penrith I don't anyone would even think to suggest the problem was Penrith not "bringing" enough fans.

 

And before someone jumps down my throat, I know, I know, differences in culture and all that. I just can't help but feel the importance is severely overstated.

[The Parksider]

2 hours ago, damp squib said:

It's no wonder the NFL is a little known past-time only played in tiny villages. No away fans you see.

As I understand it the NFL is a series of clubs all Multi-Millionaire backed.

A bit like Salford, who can not bother selling tickets to a game, and let the fans all in for free.

Do you really not believe that higher crowds are not a necessary goal??

The RFL did, they changed the league system to try to achieve this then lost thousands of fans in Bradford and may lose them in time in East Hull if they don't change things back again.

[The Parksider]

1 hour ago, jim_57 said:

 I just can't help but feel the importance is severely overstated.

In 2005 Leeds and Bradford had 22,000 crowds for their derby games.

approx 6,500 away fans at each match.

13,000 at £20 a head = £260,000

More than a quarter of a £££Million pounds

420,000 australian dollars, so away fans are very important how can people deny this jim?