The Tory destruction of the state

[ckn]

I've been meaning to have this rant for a while and today's teacher pay news along with some time off give me a chance to do so:

Today the government said "We recognise and value the hard work of teachers" so we're going to give them a 1% pay rise, the seventh successive below inflation pay rise for teachers.  This effectively is a 15% pay cut for teachers since 2010.  To put that in context, that cut is £3500 for a like-for-like newly qualified teacher now compared to 2010.  The government's figures put inflation at 2.7% meaning they've essentially said they're implementing a 1.7% pay cut for this year for teachers.

Almost one quarter of all teachers who qualified between 2011 and 2015 (and got a job teaching) have already left the profession.

So, on the list of Tory destruction, that's:

- the teachers (see above)
- the police (20,000 police officers cut)
- the NHS (see the NHS thread for far too much evidence)
- the fire service (multiple discussions, including the Grenfell thread)
- local government (40% average cuts that have directly impacted everything from social care to social services to libraries to a 1/3 cut in environmental health officers)
- legal aid (gone in all bar name)
- I could go on... and on...

Surely it's time to just give up this "austerity" stuff once and for all.  David Cameron and George Osborne pledged in 2010 to get public sector expenditure down to 36% of GDP from its then 45%, when Cameron left power it was 40.5%.  Theresa May and Hammond have taken that and run with it to such an extent that it's now 38% in one year and the planned cuts will get it below that 36% easily by 2020/21.  Even that 38% is a bit suspect because it didn't include the £12bn of benefit cuts that came in in April this year.

A nice comparator for that is that Germany runs at 44% GDP for state expenditure and Denmark runs at 50%.

Yet we'll still get people who blindly follow the Tory faith who say it's all necessary and utterly essential that wealthy people are given money back and that corporations are allowed to keep more profit.  All in the vain hope that the rich people will keep the money in the country, and spend it here, and that corporations will trickle that profit down into employee wellbeing and cheaper prices rather than send it abroad to foreign investors.

[Jim Prendle]

I work in the private sector, and my average pay rise over the last 5 years has been less than 1%.

Who should I blame for that?

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, ckn said:

I've been meaning to have this rant for a while and today's teacher pay news along with some time off give me a chance to do so:

Today the government said "We recognise and value the hard work of teachers" so we're going to give them a 1% pay rise, the seventh successive below inflation pay rise for teachers.  This effectively is a 15% pay cut for teachers since 2010.  To put that in context, that cut is £3500 for a like-for-like newly qualified teacher now compared to 2010.  The government's figures put inflation at 2.7% meaning they've essentially said they're implementing a 1.7% pay cut for this year for teachers.

Almost one quarter of all teachers who qualified between 2011 and 2015 (and got a job teaching) have already left the profession.

So, on the list of Tory destruction, that's:

- the teachers (see above)
- the police (20,000 police officers cut)
- the NHS (see the NHS thread for far too much evidence)
- the fire service (multiple discussions, including the Grenfell thread)
- local government (40% average cuts that have directly impacted everything from social care to social services to libraries to a 1/3 cut in environmental health officers)
- legal aid (gone in all bar name)
- I could go on... and on...

Surely it's time to just give up this "austerity" stuff once and for all.  David Cameron and George Osborne pledged in 2010 to get public sector expenditure down to 36% of GDP from its then 45%, when Cameron left power it was 40.5%.  Theresa May and Hammond have taken that and run with it to such an extent that it's now 38% in one year and the planned cuts will get it below that 36% easily by 2020/21.  Even that 38% is a bit suspect because it didn't include the £12bn of benefit cuts that came in in April this year.

A nice comparator for that is that Germany runs at 44% GDP for state expenditure and Denmark runs at 50%.

Yet we'll still get people who blindly follow the Tory faith who say it's all necessary and utterly essential that wealthy people are given money back and that corporations are allowed to keep more profit.  All in the vain hope that the rich people will keep the money in the country, and spend it here, and that corporations will trickle that profit down into employee wellbeing and cheaper prices rather than send it abroad to foreign investors.

Sadly the truth of this stuff is even deeper than we imagine.

While I've always been able to come to terms with the fact that our passions and preferences are different and involve our subjectivity more than they should, at time (probably more or less all the time) I can never get used to simply following without questioning.  And it is of course why the Tory argument,Party and supporters appear to be united more than the Labour Party. It's something that has been used against Labour in more or less every election I can remember. So, what should be seen as a strength, the ability to question,disagree, refute ideas and dispel myths as well as rumours has been utilised to make the left look divided even when that's not been the case. 

The teachers' pay award is of course derisory. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is Tory attitudes towards rights like industrial action. Some is a kind of Thatcherite legacy which never forgave the teachers for getting their salaries up to middle-class expectation level and, after  which Mrs M herself promised they would never be allowed near independent arbitration again. So now we have yes a Pay review but we don't have to listen to their findings. The real truth behind the notion that Tories really appreciate the work of teachers is clear in this pay farce and over the last eight years. The legacy, history and actuality of Tory thoughts on teachers is obvious. Sadly, the fact that people will subscribe to this and elect them once again shows the little esteem that teachers are held in. Words are one of the things that are cheaper than chips and voting for words is all some people seem interested in.

And on top of all this David Cameron earning hundreds of thousands of pounds at after dinner engagements where he describes people who disagree with austerity as selfish! And yes their followers will subscribe to that too.And they're absolutely correct, teachers to a person are selfish, self centred and self-obsessed, and are not even worth the 1%.

2 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

I work in the private sector, and my average pay rise over the last 5 years has been less than 1%.

Who should I blame for that?

 Who are the suspects Jim?

[ckn]

4 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

I work in the private sector, and my average pay rise over the last 5 years has been less than 1%.

Who should I blame for that?

Your employer.  Especially if their annual profits have been increasing.  If they're a struggling company making annual losses then they have a justification for asking employees to take part of the hit, but this is only "fair" if they have previously shared extra profits with employees in terms of larger pay rises.

[Jim Prendle]

Not sure mate to be honest, although I do suspect those nasty market forces may have something to do with it.

Long time since I obtained my Economics degree, but I guess I will have to scour those textbooks for some clues.

[Saintslass]

Given that NHS staff had already agreed to a 1% pay rise it was highly unlikely that teachers were going to be offered any higher than that.  Likewise for the forces staff too.  I believe fire fighters' pay is agreed in a different way to other public sector workers but I can't remember what the difference is. 

[Jim Prendle]

3 minutes ago, ckn said:

Your employer.  Especially if their annual profits have been increasing.  If they're a struggling company making annual losses then they have a justification for asking employees to take part of the hit, but this is only "fair" if they have previously shared extra profits with employees in terms of larger pay rises.

Many companies have been hit very hard from many directions since 2008, mine being one of them. They have not previously "Shared" extra profits with employees, and neither have the majority of my previous employers either.

The way of the world is that the shareholders take the gravy, and then still want the same amount of gravy when times aren't so good.

Life's tough.

[ckn]

4 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Given that NHS staff had already agreed to a 1% pay rise it was highly unlikely that teachers were going to be offered any higher than that.  Likewise for the forces staff too.  I believe fire fighters' pay is agreed in a different way to other public sector workers but I can't remember what the difference is. 

No... NHS did not "agree" to a 1% pay rise, it was take it or strike.  The government called the clinical professions' bluff over a strike, relying on the nurses duty of care to patients to utterly override the fact that the nurses themselves are being screwed over repeatedly.

[Mark S]

I worked for a company that announced that bonuses weren't to be paid due to money being tight, the same week the CEO drove into the car park in a brand new Porsche.

[Phil]

Read Marx, "accumulate accumulate that is Moses and the prophets" 

until recently the police and armed forces were pretty immune to the Tory cuts, but the fat cats feel they're not fat enough, ever more cuts must be made to allow their untrammelled accumulation of wealth.

policing may well be withdrawn from working class areas, the enemy (whoever that is) may be knocking at the gates but wealth must continue to pour into those coffers.

"Accumulate accumulate"!!!

[Saintslass]

2 hours ago, ckn said:

No... NHS did not "agree" to a 1% pay rise, it was take it or strike.  The government called the clinical professions' bluff over a strike, relying on the nurses duty of care to patients to utterly override the fact that the nurses themselves are being screwed over repeatedly.

Last I heard the nurses were considering strike action, all through the summer according to their union.

[Robin Evans]

I haven't been consulted over strike action. Neither have any of my colleagues.

I would walk out tomorrow and to hell with it. Since 2010 I've seen my capacity eroded and heaps more responsibility shoved up my ar se for an effective 4.3k pay cut.

I hate the tories with an absolute passion to what they have done to the NHS. 

[ckn]

3 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Last I heard the nurses were considering strike action, all through the summer according to their union.

Yep, and it'd be devastating if the nurses went even on a work-to-rule basis.  Utterly devastating to the nation's patients but how often can the government expect to get away with yet another under-inflation real-terms pay cut?  Then there's the unsafe staffing that really is an utter disgrace to the country that the government does nothing with because it's relying on nurses continuing to burn themselves out in unsafe conditions to keep patients alive.

Oh, that's right, the Tories stopped the publication of the post-Francis Review (Mid Staffs scandal) safe-staffing recommendations because it would have meant they needed to fund significant increases in nursing numbers.

Oh, also, the Tories lied bluntly about the nursing bursary, Cameron said that the bursary cut would allow them to fund more nursing places.  Actual increase?  None.

What about the disgrace that at the recent terrorist incidents and Grenfell there was not a single intensive care bed available in the four Major Trauma hospitals in London because of the massive cuts (that I've proven repeatedly using government released figures).  Oh, and also the PTSD specialist unit that's just been cut in London that would have helped the Grenfell survivors.

I could go on for a very very long time on this one.

It's a disgraceful piece of brinkmanship by the Tories on the NHS and other critical public services, they know that they can keep cutting, cutting and cutting again and the emergency services will break themselves to keep people safe and keep breaking themselves way beyond what anyone in any civilised country would think of as "safe".

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Given that NHS staff had already agreed to a 1% pay rise it was highly unlikely that teachers were going to be offered any higher than that.  Likewise for the forces staff too.  I believe fire fighters' pay is agreed in a different way to other public sector workers but I can't remember what the difference is. 

No forced upon them would be a more accurate description,Saintslass.

 

55 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Last I heard the nurses were considering strike action, all through the summer according to their union.

And that should tell you a lot, the Nurses are considering action!

And that must be because they're selfish, probably more so than teachers. It must be true Dave Cameron said so and that's like having it in a Daily Mail editorial that is. Written in stone for anyone's money.

[JohnM]

CKN, this is , or was, supposed to be a AOB forum. Long ago it turned into "we all  hate the tories and their evil works" apart from just a few of us prepared to challenge your arrogance New topic after new topic is started on the same old theme. "Tories this, tories that" . Your personal and bitter vendetta  and those of your acolytes has been  beyond boring for some while. All that unnecessary anger and self riteousness  is not pretty. Give it a rest. 

[iffleyox]

On a slight tangent, I've never understood why the public sector have the right to strike - or rather, why some do and others don't. I was in the forces and we were told "you're doing nationally critical work, so you can't strike and that's why you have a Pay Review Body to intervene with the government on your behalf." AIUI it's the same for the police - *however* the various parts of the NHS have a pay review body *and* can strike. 

Is there any logic behind this or are we just saying that the police and forces are more important when it comes down to it? Or is it that it's easier to resign - you can't just wrap your hand in and walk away from the police/armed forces, you have to give something like 1 year's notice?

Not really related to the discussion in the thread, but sparked a thought in my head - any body got any idea? I suppose it could also come down to "just the way it's always  been" as well!

 

[ckn]

3 minutes ago, JohnM said:

CKN, this is , or was, supposed to be a AOB forum. Long ago it turned into "we all  hate the tories and their evil works" apart from just a few of us prepared to challenge your arrogance New topic after new topic is started on the same old theme. "Tories this, tories that" . Your personal and bitter vendetta  and those of your acolytes has been  beyond boring for some while. All that unnecessary anger and self riteousness  is not pretty. Give it a rest. 

Why should I?  Why should I stop being angry at the destruction, for political self-interest, of everything that I believe makes this country work, all for the sake of the few?

[Jim Prendle]

2 minutes ago, ckn said:

Why should I?  Why should I stop being angry at the destruction, for political self-interest, of everything that I believe makes this country work, all for the sake of the few?

I don't suppose for one minute that you should stop being angry about something you believe passionately in, but as a moderator I guess you also have to be even handed as and when someone starts to create thread after thread containing views that don't agree with yours.

Fair enough?

[Robin Evans]

8 minutes ago, JohnM said:

CKN, this is , or was, supposed to be a AOB forum. Long ago it turned into "we all  hate the tories and their evil works" apart from just a few of us prepared to challenge your arrogance New topic after new topic is started on the same old theme. "Tories this, tories that" . Your personal and bitter vendetta  and those of your acolytes has been  beyond boring for some while. All that unnecessary anger and self riteousness  is not pretty. Give it a rest. 

I'm more than happy people out this vile shower for what they are. No matter how repetitive it gets

[gingerjon]

4 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

I work in the private sector, and my average pay rise over the last 5 years has been less than 1%.

Who should I blame for that?

That's not actually remotely relevant although some people seem to assume it is.

[gingerjon]

24 minutes ago, JohnM said:

CKN, this is , or was, supposed to be a AOB forum. Long ago it turned into "we all  hate the tories and their evil works" apart from just a few of us prepared to challenge your arrogance New topic after new topic is started on the same old theme. "Tories this, tories that" . Your personal and bitter vendetta  and those of your acolytes has been  beyond boring for some while. All that unnecessary anger and self riteousness  is not pretty. Give it a rest. 

Diddums.

[Jim Prendle]

33 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's not actually remotely relevant although some people seem to assume it is.

Really?

You might not consider it relevant, but I consider my salary as relevant as that of any public sector employee.

is that OK?

[Shadow]

2 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Really?

You might not consider it relevant, but I consider my salary as relevant as that of any public sector employee.

is that OK?

When the thread is about central government effectively cutting public sector pay then your issues with your private sector pay is irrelevant no matter how important you think it is.

is that OK?

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Really?

You might not consider it relevant, but I consider my salary as relevant as that of any public sector employee.

is that OK?

Unless and until your job is linked to the effective resourcing of health, education, transport et al then it's not relevant.

[Jim Prendle]

OK.

I will be off then to start 30 new threads about the injustice of private sector workers only receiving 1% pay rises for the last 5 years.

It's clear that nobody wants to debate why such paltry rises have been prevalent in the last few years, but just moan about it.