Job hunting

[Shadow]

 

1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

I seem to remember you needed a company to 'hold' the clearance.  So if you went to a company that didn't have that set up, you would lose it or it would lapse after a certain time.  

 

47 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

I was told it goes with both - you are vetted as an individual for a specific role/organisation

The advantage is it shows future employers it is worth the hassle of starting the process as it is likely to come through in the end

You could well be right, I was only ever SC cleared and that was 30 odd years ago,and I haven't worked in a situation where it was necessary for well over 10 years.

[SSoutherner]

Anyone on here involved n the management of large call centres as I need to pick their brains

[The Hallucinating Goose]

On 01/02/2021 at 18:31, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I've been getting messed around in the last week. I got offered a job a week ago subject to a DBS check, no problem, done them before.

They ask me to fill some stuff in online and submit some documents, did as asked. A couple of days later got an email asking me to submit one of mg documents again. Filled in the info correctly as far as I could tell. Got another email today asking me the same thing and to upload a picture of the document. They hadn't asked me to do that last time so I click on the link and there is nowhere to upload the document. I've tried ringing them twice and I've left a voicemail to try to get someone to ring me back and explain what I'm supposed to do but no one has got back to me yet. 

I've decided now that I don't want the job enough to be messed around like this so I'm gonna leave it until tomorrow to see if someone gets back to me and if not I'm gonna send them an email saying something along the lines of, 'due to a change in personal circumstances I am going to have to decline the offer of a job'. I've submitted the info they wanted twice and only the third time did they ask for an upload of the document, they've got copies of 3 other documents, they've got plenty of info for a DBS to be done and I can't be doing with being f***ed about this much, I'm getting very stressed and it isn't good for my health so they can stuff their job! 

Right well, in a hour it will have been 2 days since I left a voicemail and it will be about a day and half since I emailed saying I don't want the job anymore and I have heard absolutely nothing at all so I'm gonna assume that's done with and I can go back to looking for a job with a half decent company. 

[Tommygilf]

As a graduate trying to get into the workforce I have to say right now its a nightmare, 1000s of applications per job at all levels, will it get better/easier?

[Bedford Roughyed]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

As a graduate trying to get into the workforce I have to say right now its a nightmare, 1000s of applications per job at all levels, will it get better/easier?

Depends on the field.

On one of the jobs I posted above we have had 70 ish CV's.  Over half from outside of UK.

[SSoutherner]

17 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

As a graduate trying to get into the workforce I have to say right now its a nightmare, 1000s of applications per job at all levels, will it get better/easier?

My son changed his 3yr BSc into a 4yr MSc so he graduates next yr not this

Only thing i can say is don't be tempted into thinking volume is the key, better to apply for 10 roles you know you can and want to do with tailored applications than apply to 1000 with the same generic one - there are no prizes for being "your cv is good but other applicants were closer to our requirements" 250 times.

Be aware large organisations (especially on big graduate campaigns) will be using some form of auto sifting software on the bulk applications, make sure your cv mirrors the language on the advert and do not assume knowledge as "obvious"

Many years ago i sent a guy for a Unix Pre-sales consultant job and was amazed he did not get an immediate interview - 2 weeks later i got a call from the line manager desperate for candidates (i wasnt allowed to ring him), i asked him and he had not seen the cv. It turned out HR had a new HR administrator, her job was to take cv's off the fax (shos how long ago it was) and check against criteria for each role only forwarding to line manager if they passed a certain score.  She has not known the table on the front page of his cv showing all the different versions of HP-UX, DG-UX, Irix, Solaris/SunOS, AIX he had worked on referred to Unix and so she literally binned it - by that point he had an offer on the table so that company missed out.  The software is now doing the job of that HR Admin so ensure if the ad says "needs in depth Unix" your cv says it rather than assuming the reader will know Irix was the Silicon Graphics version of Unix etc etc - 

This can also be used in reverse - if you do not have skill X which is asked for but you know you have something similar there is nothing wrong with putting "i have experience of Y which is similar to X" that will still be picked up by an auto sifter as having X in it and likely passed to the next phase where there is a chance of a human reading it

[Bob8]

On 03/02/2021 at 17:39, Tommygilf said:

As a graduate trying to get into the workforce I have to say right now its a nightmare, 1000s of applications per job at all levels, will it get better/easier?

What is your field?

It is always horrible, but now is harder than normal, not least as people are not in the office and disruption of Covid and brexit.

[Futtocks]

8 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

Be aware large organisations (especially on big graduate campaigns) will be using some form of auto sifting software on the bulk applications, make sure your cv mirrors the language on the advert and do not assume knowledge as "obvious"

Tweak your CV (especially) and covering letter (where required) to include exact phrases for any requirement mentioned in the job advert - that can help with the auto-sifting. Then research how the software interprets the layout of a CV, as it can take information and put it in the wrong place in its own system.

[Futtocks]

20 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

What is your field?

It is always horrible, but now is harder than normal, not least as people are not in the office and disruption of Covid and brexit.

Of course, if it is a "working from home" job, as many more are since last March, that does drastically expand your geographical spread when it comes to looking for employers.

[Bedford Roughyed]

And as I've now done a few interviews..... if you put something on your CV, be prepared to answer a question on it.....

[Futtocks]

16 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

And as I've now done a few interviews..... if you put something on your CV, be prepared to answer a question on it.....

 Absolutely. Even if they don't ask in the interview, you'll most likely get found out quickly if you get the job on false pretences. And then you'll be labelled as a bit of a Boris in the eyes of all your colleagues, assuming you keep the job.

[SSoutherner]

1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

Of course, if it is a "working from home" job, as many more are since last March, that does drastically expand your geographical spread when it comes to looking for employers.

except a lot are "currently work from home" and employers will be looking for people reaosnably local still

 

[Futtocks]

11 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

except a lot are "currently work from home" and employers will be looking for people reaosnably local still

It depends on whether the current unpleasantness has made an employer reconsider whether constant physical presence is actually required, if the work is being done well and technology is keeping people connected.

Where I work, we are currently considering (from late this year onwards, and no earlier) a much smaller office than the current workforce would normally need, where face-to-face meetings can be held if necessary, as well as a bit of social contact (coming to the office 1 or 2 days a week, if we want to), then hiring (for the day) a venue for occasional all-staff meetings and social events.

Meanwhile, this company currently has (formerly central London-commuting) staff working from Wales, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Cuba, Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and there's been no real issues. Plus the overheads will be lower.

[SSoutherner]

4 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

It depends on whether the current unpleasantness has made an employer reconsider whether constant physical presence is actually required, if the work is being done well and technology os keeping people connected.

Where I work, we are currently considering (from late this year onwards, and no earlier) a much smaller office than the current workforce would normally need, where face-to-face meetings can be held if necessary, as well as a bit of social contact, then hiring (for the day) a venue for occasional all-staff meetings and social events.

Meanwhile, this company currently has (formerly central London-commuting) staff working from Wales, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Cuba, Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and there's been no real issues. Plus the overheads will be lower.

i have been made redundant (was told last week) I am likely to get an offer soon from an old business aqauntence which will involve selling a product very tied into a growing trend in homeworking and associated issues. 

Currently i do tech recruitment and know a lot of controlling companies are still convinced it will be business as usual in a few months so are requiring new recruits to be "based within a sensible commute"

[Futtocks]

Just now, SSoutherner said:

i have been made redundant (was told last week) I am likely to get an offer soon from an old business aqauntence which will involve selling a product very tied into a growing trend in homeworking and associated issues. 

Currently i do tech recruitment and know a lot of controlling compananies are still convinced it will be business as usual in a few months so are requiring new recruits to be "based within a sensible commute"

Some people want the old normal back, some have seen how well the new normal works. Their decision. But there'll be plenty of both, when it comes to office desk jobs, that are done on a computer.

The company I work for spent 2018-2019 gradually migrating to a laptop/dock & cloud server set-up, from the previous desktop PC & office server arrangement, so we inadvertently made the change a lot easier for ourselves when the lurgi reared it's ugly head last March.

[Bleep1673]

Virtual Interview this morning with Brighton & Sussex NHS Trust via the dreaded Microsoft teams.

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

1 hour ago, Bleep1673 said:

Virtual Interview this morning with Brighton & Sussex NHS Trust via the dreaded Microsoft teams.

Good luck.

[Bleep1673]

1 hour ago, Bleep1673 said:

Virtual Interview this morning with Brighton & Sussex NHS Trust via the dreaded Microsoft teams.

Seemed to go OK until they asked why I left my last NHS job

[Shadow]

4 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Seemed to go OK until they asked why I left my last NHS job

 

3 hours ago, Johnoco said:

But that isn't something that will go away. If it's such a stumbling block, just forget it and start again from scratch. 

Or you need to own it.

assuming there are reasons why the issues that led to your previous parting of the ways from the NHS are no longer issues then raise it first, take it on up front. As a hiring manager I would prefer to see you bring up potential stumbling blocks and show how they aren’t a problem rather than find it as a post script that looks as if you were hoping I wouldn’t ask. I will ask, it’s my job.  

[Bleep1673]

1 hour ago, Shadow said:

 

Or you need to own it.

assuming there are reasons why the issues that led to your previous parting of the ways from the NHS are no longer issues then raise it first, take it on up front. As a hiring manager I would prefer to see you bring up potential stumbling blocks and show how they aren’t a problem rather than find it as a post script that looks as if you were hoping I wouldn’t ask. I will ask, it’s my job.  

I told them the truth, that I punched my manager when he downgraded me. That won't be a problem in the future as I am desperate for a job.

[Bleep1673]

1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

(The interviewers thinking.....)

Why won't it be a problem? If you punch someone when you have a fairly good job like you did, isn't it much more likely you'll do the same in a lesser role? 

Don't tell the DWP this, but I think I am pretty much unemployable anyway.

[Bleep1673]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56025926

This is how I feel at aged 58.

[Bob8]

14 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

I told them the truth, that I punched my manager when he downgraded me. That won't be a problem in the future as I am desperate for a job.

Upfront is the only option.

If you raise it, say it was a turning point in your life he was just doing his job. Discuss how you have changed things round. Say how you wrote him a sincere apology (do that and suck it up perhaps) and how you are working on yourself, thank him for all your learned from him and he might even put in a good word for you.

Otherwise, you seem like a great candidate, they are wondering what the catch is and then they find it.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

....say it was a turning point in your life he was just doing his job. Discuss how you have changed things round. Say how you wrote him a sincere apology (do that and suck it up perhaps) and how you are working on yourself, thank him for all your learned from him....

As long as that is true, of course.

[Bleep1673]

4 hours ago, JohnM said:

As long as that is true, of course.

I didn't mention the Drink Driving conviction.

The Lamping of my manager is true though, I am not writing to apologise, because I am only sorry for not knocking him unconscious. I am not a violent man, but I was that afternoon.