2019 structure

[Angelic Cynic]

8 hours ago, Keep The Faith said:

https://t.co/6oIbztRuLZ?amp=1

 

how can clubs sign players, attract sponsorship when they don’t know what competition they are going to play from 2019... 

the rfl is seriously losing fans, major sponsorship which is killing the game... 

   Don't worry.The sport is going to 'compete properly with rugby union'. 'Appeal to more people and more sponsors'.

   Sit back and enjoy the ride...https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jan/07/super-league-clubs-transformed-adam-pearson-hull

[The Parksider]

3 hours ago, DavidM said:

Not knowing the basic structure for the next season when you start is bizarre 

No it's not David. We do know the "basic structure" because it was outlined by Mr. Pearson on the 8th. January to Aaron Bower, he said "There is definitely going to be a £Million game at the end of this year". As we also know Leigh were bunged £500K by SL, and as we are finally realising neither Toulouse or Toronto have any right to automatic promotion, then not only do we know what the arrangements are this year we can pretty much guess who is going up next year if Toronto and Toulouse are not.

The issue is SKY. They allegedly loved the idea of the MPG, according to Solly and Wood when they peddled it to SKY. However the SL chairmen don't like it and Pearson calls it a "doomsday game" pointing out Sam Moa's opinion "It's not right" which was a reflection of Jimmy Lowes opinion that the MPG is no more than a fancy way to announce mass redundancies.

The clubs can't rush SKY into any meetings and decisions, but as above there is no real need. If you are wondering what 2019 will bring Mr. Pearson states "I am a strong advocate of P & R" he says "Every stakeholder from the clubs to the players to the supporters definitely agree that jeopardy has to be there in some form" "What we all agree on is there has to be jeopardy" "RU create it with one up and one down and they may not be far off there". It just needs the SL chairmen to carefully persuade SKY to go for one up and one down instead of MPG.

The other issue is the funding, Lenegan wants a lot of the money that goes to championship clubs back. The MPG is based on  championship clubs being paid money to help them compete for the MPG. So I assume until the MPG is dumped the funding has to stay as it is and again it's a SKY's permission thing. They approved the deal, they approved the allocation of monies. Until they say the MPG goes that funding stays and that may not be until after 2019 and even 2020 if SKY are intransigent and hold SL to the deal to the end of the contract.

So there we have it, all revealed  over 2 weeks ago but SL & RFL bashing is good fun on here. Easier than actually reading stuff up......

[jpmc]

17 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

No it's not David. We do know the "basic structure" because it was outlined by Mr. Pearson on the 8th. January to Aaron Bower, he said "There is definitely going to be a £Million game at the end of this year". As we also know Leigh were bunged £500K by SL, and as we are finally realising neither Toulouse or Toronto have any right to automatic promotion, then not only do we know what the arrangements are this year we can pretty much guess who is going up next year if Toronto and Toulouse are not.

The issue is SKY. They allegedly loved the idea of the MPG, according to Solly and Wood when they peddled it to SKY. However the SL chairmen don't like it and Pearson calls it a "doomsday game" pointing out Sam Moa's opinion "It's not right" which was a reflection of Jimmy Lowes opinion that the MPG is no more that a fancy way to announce mass redundancies.

The clubs can't rush SKY into any meetings and decisions, but as above there is no real need. If you are wondering what 2019 will bring Mr. Pearson states "I am a strong advocate of P & R" he says "Every stakeholder from the clubs to the players to the supporters definitely agree that jeopardy has to be there in some form" "What we all agree on is there has to be jeopardy" "RU create it with one up and one down and they may not be far off there". It just needs the SL chairmen to carefully persuade SKY to go for one up and one down instead of MPG.

The other issue is the funding. The MPG is based on  championship clubs being paid money to help them compete for the MPG. So I assume until the MPG is dumped the funding has to stay as it is and again it's a SKY's permission thing. They approved the deal, they approved the allocation of monies. Until they say the MPG goes that funding stays and that may not be until after 2019 and even 2020 if SKY are intransigent and hold SL to the deal to the end of the contract.

So there we have it, all revealed  over 2 weeks ago but SL & RFL bashing is good fun on here. Easier than actually reading stuff up......

Im comfortable saying there wont be a million pound game this season

[jpmc]

27 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

No it's not David. We do know the "basic structure" because it was outlined by Mr. Pearson on the 8th. January to Aaron Bower, he said "There is definitely going to be a £Million game at the end of this year". As we also know Leigh were bunged £500K by SL, and as we are finally realising neither Toulouse or Toronto have any right to automatic promotion, then not only do we know what the arrangements are this year we can pretty much guess who is going up next year if Toronto and Toulouse are not.

The issue is SKY. They allegedly loved the idea of the MPG, according to Solly and Wood when they peddled it to SKY. However the SL chairmen don't like it and Pearson calls it a "doomsday game" pointing out Sam Moa's opinion "It's not right" which was a reflection of Jimmy Lowes opinion that the MPG is no more that a fancy way to announce mass redundancies.

The clubs can't rush SKY into any meetings and decisions, but as above there is no real need. If you are wondering what 2019 will bring Mr. Pearson states "I am a strong advocate of P & R" he says "Every stakeholder from the clubs to the players to the supporters definitely agree that jeopardy has to be there in some form" "What we all agree on is there has to be jeopardy" "RU create it with one up and one down and they may not be far off there". It just needs the SL chairmen to carefully persuade SKY to go for one up and one down instead of MPG.

The other issue is the funding. The MPG is based on  championship clubs being paid money to help them compete for the MPG. So I assume until the MPG is dumped the funding has to stay as it is and again it's a SKY's permission thing. They approved the deal, they approved the allocation of monies. Until they say the MPG goes that funding stays and that may not be until after 2019 and even 2020 if SKY are intransigent and hold SL to the deal to the end of the contract.

So there we have it, all revealed  over 2 weeks ago but SL & RFL bashing is good fun on here. Easier than actually reading stuff up......

Its pitiful that sky are being dragged into this complete and utter shambles.

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, jpmc said:

Its pitiful that sky are being dragged into this complete and utter shambles.

Sky are the paymasters JP, they make the game possible at the level it is at in the UK, no more, no less.

There is a contract in place till 2021, and after that who know's?

If Sky insist on the continuation of the MPG, then you can bet your bottom dollar we will continue with the MPG.

All the talk we have about the restructure is going to be governed by Sky's approval or otherwise, and I would hazard a guess that will also contain a modicom of thought of the process for the next TV contract after 2021, there are other broadcasters that have been mentioned who could possibly make a bid, but I suspect that Sky will still be strong favourites, SHOULD THEY WISH TO CONTINUE.

I cannot not see that the SL Chairmen would even contemplate "rocking the Sky boat" it is in their best interests to keep Sky happy, and to qoute Mr. Parksider "The clubs can't rush Sky into any meetings and decisions".

Last May when Mr. Draper announced a possible restructure does anyone believe that announcement was of his own fruition and he decided to make that call, I would say that discussions had been going on for a while then about a new format and it just needed the 'i's' dotting and 't's' crossing before being announced in the closed season, It maybe the SL wants a closed shop again, in may be Mr. Leneghan wants more of the funding reverting to SL, or whatever, but one thing is for sure there is definatley a situation in which progress in making an announcement is not possible, there has to be a disagreement or a deadlock in the decision process, and my feeling is that it is Sky who are not in agreement with the poroposals.

 

[Angelic Cynic]

9 hours ago, The Parksider said:

No it's not David. We do know the "basic structure" because it was outlined by Mr. Pearson on the 8th. January to Aaron Bower, he said "There is definitely going to be a £Million game at the end of this year". As we also know Leigh were bunged £500K by SL, and as we are finally realising neither Toulouse or Toronto have any right to automatic promotion, then not only do we know what the arrangements are this year we can pretty much guess who is going up next year if Toronto and Toulouse are not.

The issue is SKY. They allegedly loved the idea of the MPG, according to Solly and Wood when they peddled it to SKY. However the SL chairmen don't like it and Pearson calls it a "doomsday game" pointing out Sam Moa's opinion "It's not right" which was a reflection of Jimmy Lowes opinion that the MPG is no more than a fancy way to announce mass redundancies.

The clubs can't rush SKY into any meetings and decisions, but as above there is no real need. If you are wondering what 2019 will bring Mr. Pearson states "I am a strong advocate of P & R" he says "Every stakeholder from the clubs to the players to the supporters definitely agree that jeopardy has to be there in some form" "What we all agree on is there has to be jeopardy" "RU create it with one up and one down and they may not be far off there". It just needs the SL chairmen to carefully persuade SKY to go for one up and one down instead of MPG.

The other issue is the funding, Lenegan wants a lot of the money that goes to championship clubs back. The MPG is based on  championship clubs being paid money to help them compete for the MPG. So I assume until the MPG is dumped the funding has to stay as it is and again it's a SKY's permission thing. They approved the deal, they approved the allocation of monies. Until they say the MPG goes that funding stays and that may not be until after 2019 and even 2020 if SKY are intransigent and hold SL to the deal to the end of the contract.

So there we have it, all revealed  over 2 weeks ago but SL & RFL bashing is good fun on here. Easier than actually reading stuff up......

    But that is what ONE owner of a Super League club desires.

Why was there such an unfriendly response to what Dr Koukash desired when he was the owner of a Super League club?

Does the entire sport - and owners of all clubs in the 3 tiers,now just accept what ONE owner of a super League club desires,who agrees to speak to a journalist and who takes his club to Australia to play a game?

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

    But that is what ONE owner of a Super League club desires.

Why was there such an unfriendly response to what Dr Koukash desired when he was the owner of a Super League club?

Does the entire sport - and owners of all clubs in the 3 tiers,now just accept what ONE owner of a super League club desires,who agrees to speak to a journalist and who takes his club to Australia to play a game?

So you consider those words of Mr Pearson was his own interpretation of events, could it possibly be that having attended all of the meetings it was his turn to be the nominated spokesman, something needed bringing to the public domain without being official, what better way to feed the public than having a high profile SL Chairman from one of the "Big Clubs" piece feeding a few snippets of information. He did use the word WE one more than one occasion indicating a collective opinion.

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

So you consider those words of Mr Pearson was his own interpretation of events, could it possibly be that having attended all of the meetings it was his turn to be the nominated spokesman, something needed bringing to the public domain without being official, what better way to feed the public than having a high profile SL Chairman from one of the "Big Clubs" piece feeding a few snippets of information. He did use the word WE one more than one occasion indicating a collective opinion.

   It would seem fair to accept that the governing body is no longer governing and the money/salaries saved will no doubt be routed back into the game.

  As Mr Pearson used the word WE,and if it is accepted that he was speaking on behalf of a collective,should that not be more transparent?

  For example,after Dr Koukash stated HE wanted an end to the salary cap,other Super League club owners made it immediately known that they disagreed.I believe Dr Koukash gave details of the numbers for and against at the earliest opportunity,via Twitter.

This far reaching consequence for the sport was made via one national newspaper,in isolation,and has not had any agreement,disagreement or elicited any kind of comment from any other Super League club owner for or against.

It has to be the most fragmented sport,and the least transparent,that exists.

Supporters and most importantly,players,seem to be subject to the mushroom syndrome,season in and season out.

It continues not because of the owners and opaque individuals at Red Hall,but despite them.

But as long as everyone is happy... 

[Dave T]

This constant clamour for transparency is draining. What does it even mean?

We don't have the right to know everything.

 

[deluded pom?]

Just now, Dave T said:

This constant clamour for transparency is draining. What does it even mean?

We don't have the right to know everything.

 

There are also some things we'd be better off not knowing.

[Angelic Cynic]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

This constant clamour for transparency is draining. What does it even mean?

We don't have the right to know everything.

 

    It means something to Sport England,and the RFL in their rush to show spin without substance,use the word regularly.( Like politicians they appear to just use words in vogue in America.)

   http://www.rugby-league.com/article/51561/rugby-football-league-meets-all-requirements-of-new-code-for-sports-governance

 You are absolutely correct  -  we do not have the right to know everything.

   But having allowed,possibly without the authority of a Super League club owner,to have Toronto play their away games from their Manchester base for the early part of the season,and then,with a distinct advantage of no travel for games in Canada while the opposition travel in,would it not be reasonable to let those purchasing season tickets at Championship clubs during these austere times,know what the structure for the season may be? 

   Will there be parachute payments at the end of 2018?

  Will there be relegation and/or promotion,and if so how many clubs will be involved?

   Is there another sport,anywhere,that has similar uncertainty surrounding the structure? 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

    It means something to Sport England,and the RFL in their rush to show spin without substance,use the word regularly.( Like politicians they appear to just use words in vogue in America.)

   http://www.rugby-league.com/article/51561/rugby-football-league-meets-all-requirements-of-new-code-for-sports-governance

 You are absolutely correct  -  we do not have the right to know everything.

   But having allowed,possibly without the authority of a Super League club owner,to have Toronto play their away games from their Manchester base for the early part of the season,and then,with a distinct advantage of no travel for games in Canada while the opposition travel in,would it not be reasonable to let those purchasing season tickets at Championship clubs during these austere times,know what the structure for the season may be? 

   Will there be parachute payments at the end of 2018?

  Will there be relegation and/or promotion,and if so how many clubs will be involved?

   Is there another sport,anywhere,that has similar uncertainty surrounding the structure? 

You wont get me arguing on the structure, but that isnt lack of transparency, theyve told us that a decision hasnt been made and may not be until the summer.

It aint necessarily lack of transparency, it is rank incompetence.

[Scubby]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

This constant clamour for transparency is draining. What does it even mean?

We don't have the right to know everything.

 

 

4 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

There are also some things we'd be better off not knowing.

Like Dave T's time sheet. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

 

Like Dave T's time sheet. 

Need to know basis.

[deluded pom?]

27 minutes ago, Scubby said:

 

Like Dave T's time sheet. 

Shouldn’t you be in hibernation instead of posting controversial threads?

[Kayakman]

6 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

   Will there be parachute payments at the end of 2018?

  Will there be relegation and/or promotion,and if so how many clubs will be involved?

   Is there another sport,anywhere,that has similar uncertainty surrounding the structure? 

I don't think there is!

Not of the size and scope of Rugby League anyway.  Your Super League is sort of comparable to our CFL (Canadian Football League) with roughly the same players salaries, franchise size, crowds, etc.

Sometimes there is are a few unanswered questions but nothing of the size and scope you mention.

Even professional lacrosse (much smaller) wouldn't tolerate it.

It seems that in rugby league there is this constant fluid motions on many fronts that other sports or their size simply don't have...in that aspect it is unique!

To me, a new fan to the sport, I don't know why it is tolerated...but that is just my opinion.

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I don't think there is!

Not of the size and scope of Rugby League anyway.  Your Super League is sort of comparable to our CFL (Canadian Football League) with roughly the same players salaries, franchise size, crowds, etc.

Sometimes there is are a few unanswered questions but nothing of the size and scope you mention.

Even professional lacrosse (much smaller) wouldn't tolerate it.

It seems that in rugby league there is this constant fluid motions on many fronts that other sports or their size simply don't have...in that aspect it is unique!

To me, a new fan to the sport, I don't know why it is tolerated...but that is just my opinion.

Totally understand how someone new to anything whatever it is will be able to look at how it performs and functions and say "What the #^&*" and that would be so so true about Rugby League.

When you have done 50+ years of it K'man - and I sincerley hope you are up for the long haul - you become quite accostomed to the seemingly nessacity our governor's ilk to chop and change things, it becomes like water of a duck's back, you just get on with it.

I have lived through the times when a few in the pub would duscuss and moan the next new change, rule, law, structure.............whatever, today that pub is transformed to thousands on sites such as these and the guy on the next table is in Australia, Canada, France etc, we can and will have a much bigger noisier moan, but it will change nothing.

Mr Rimmer has just gone on record as saying "we have to get it right next time" but hasn't that been the intention everytime that changes have been made, get use to it friend, there is nothing more certain that they won't get it right this time, and in a few short years we will be going round again.

[The Parksider]

19 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

   It would seem fair to accept that the governing body is no longer governing and the money/salaries saved will no doubt be routed back into the game.

  As Mr Pearson used the word WE,and if it is accepted that he was speaking on behalf of a collective,should that not be more transparent?

  For example,after Dr Koukash stated HE wanted an end to the salary cap,other Super League club owners made it immediately known that they disagreed.I believe Dr Koukash gave details of the numbers for and against at the earliest opportunity,via Twitter.

This far reaching consequence for the sport was made via one national newspaper,in isolation,and has not had any agreement,disagreement or elicited any kind of comment from any other Super League club owner for or against.

Well if you had followed closely the full history of the rift between Superleague and the RFL, which most people understandably do not as it is "Politics" not "sport" then you would not be saying Pearson is acting alone. When this structure was voted in it was highly controversial and the vote split 7-6 for, with the RFL swinging it with advance contact payments promised to skint clubs. This was akin to a bribe - all set out by Martyn Sadler and confirmed by our expert historian Padge - not me BTW.

Those against the RFL and lined up with Lenegan were Pearson, Hudgell, Moran, Davey and Koukash. Once they realised they had lost they voted again for a show of public unity and the new structure was carried. This was however not unanimous. Koukash broke ranks and voted against. Later he unilaterally called for the SL to split with the RFL (all in the papers but who reads the politics) and they roundly ignored him. This is why Koukash's thoughts are irrelevant. He's gone now shunned by the Salford fans and the powerful SL chairmen.

The big five SL chairmen have all taken turns to make public demands of the RFL, on behalf of each other. Hudgell called for the RFL to give SL greater control of Superleague through the Yorkshire Post with open legal threats. Davey made a public statement which was quite rare, Lenegan made several as he leads the group that now appears to involve Beaumont to give the group a six vote power base in an 11 vote arena. Pearson appeared under the Humber Bridge in a press photo with Hudgell jointly condemning the RFL. Even Moran sent public messages through a bemused Aussie coach who was only here to coach the team. The £500K payment to Beaumont which scuppers TWP appears to be reward for coming onside with the Lenegan faction. Memories of the £300K "advance payments" the RFL made to win votes. Two can play at that game and now have.

Not once did any of the Lenegan mob disagree with what appeared to be unilateral public statements made on their behalf. This is because they clearly had agreed them and took turns to announce them.

All through these politics which saw Wood eventually walk  and Superlegue take control SKY stayed silent. It was not their business. The SKY deal was their business and they had paid £200M for the game to play under an MPG structure that was signed sealed and delivered until 2021. There is a contractual obligation to carry on with this structure, so we can all bash the SL bosses as much as we want, but if SKY don't want a change now, in fact if SKY don't even want to discuss it now, then that is that. If any of the five say something publicly then they will not say that without a collective agreement between themselves with Beaumont towing the line.

If there is any opposition now (with any real muscle) post the RFL being shown their place, then it lies with McManus and Hetherington. To swing anything they need Leigh not to be promoted and get a vote, and Widnes or Salford not be be relegated and be voting with them along with Cas and Wakey. That SL passed the £500K payment to Leigh by at least 6-5 says this is not on the cards.

SL17 may note.....

[WiganBooney]

A way to increase SL to 14, keep the million pound game and still make this years super 8's meaningful would be for top 5 in middle 8 to go into SL with 6 v 7 playoff for last spot.  In following years Championship top club automatically replaces bottom SL club with club in 13th going into 4 team play-off with final as million pound game, like in Scottish football, keeps promotion open for one definite and 2 possible spots and satisfies SKY desire for million pound game.

SL grand final play offs revert to top 4 or 5.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

Well if you had followed closely the full history of the rift between Superleague and the RFL, which most people understandably do not as it is "Politics" not "sport" then you would not be saying Pearson is acting alone. When this structure was voted in it was highly controversial and the vote split 7-6 for, with the RFL swinging it with advance contact payments promised to skint clubs. This was akin to a bribe - all set out by Martyn Sadler and confirmed by our expert historian Padge - not me BTW.

Those against the RFL and lined up with Lenegan were Pearson, Hudgell, Moran, Davey and Koukash. Once they realised they had lost they voted again for a show of public unity and the new structure was carried. This was however not unanimous. Koukash broke ranks and voted against. Later he unilaterally called for the SL to split with the RFL (all in the papers but who reads the politics) and they roundly ignored him. This is why Koukash's thoughts are irrelevant. He's gone now shunned by the Salford fans and the powerful SL chairmen.

The big five SL chairmen have all taken turns to make public demands of the RFL, on behalf of each other. Hudgell called for the RFL to give SL greater control of Superleague through the Yorkshire Post with open legal threats. Davey made a public statement which was quite rare, Lenegan made several as he leads the group that now appears to involve Beaumont to give the group a six vote power base in an 11 vote arena. Pearson appeared under the Humber Bridge in a press photo with Hudgell jointly condemning the RFL. Even Moran sent public messages through a bemused Aussie coach who was only here to coach the team. The £500K payment to Beaumont which scuppers TWP appears to be reward for coming onside with the Lenegan faction. Memories of the £300K "advance payments" the RFL made to win votes. Two can play at that game and now have.

Not once did any of the Lenegan mob disagree with what appeared to be unilateral public statements made on their behalf. This is because they clearly had agreed them and took turns to announce them.

All through these politics which saw Wood eventually walk  and Superlegue take control SKY stayed silent. It was not their business. The SKY deal was their business and they had paid £200M for the game to play under an MPG structure that was signed sealed and delivered until 2021. There is a contractual obligation to carry on with this structure, so we can all bash the SL bosses as much as we want, but if SKY don't want a change now, in fact if SKY don't even want to discuss it now, then that is that. If any of the five say something publicly then they will not say that without a collective agreement between themselves with Beaumont towing the line.

If there is any opposition now (with any real muscle) post the RFL being shown their place, then it lies with McManus and Hetherington. 

One flaw with that assumption. Mr Beaumont wouldn't have been in a position to vote. Hence Leigh where invited to the meeting at the LSV. Are you saying Beaumont was given a casting vote?

[Robthegasman]

I think it is time that the structure for 2019 is revealed soon and before this season kicks off so clubs at all levels know precisely what they are playing for this season.

And in my opinion whatever is decided by ALL the clubs it must be kept to ad infinitum 

[Michael1812]

On 26 January 2018 at 12:27 AM, Kayakman said:

 

Not of the size and scope of Rugby League anyway.  Your Super League is sort of comparable to our CFL (Canadian Football League) with roughly the same players salaries, franchise size, crowds, etc.

I don't know about salaries but attendances and TV numbers are much higher in the CFL. The CFL average attendance is 24,000 and some clubs average over 32,000. And for TV, they get 500,000 to 700,000 viewers per match. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Robthegasman said:

I think it is time that the structure for 2019 is revealed soon and before this season kicks off so clubs at all levels know precisely what they are playing for this season.

And in my opinion whatever is decided by ALL the clubs it must be kept to ad infinitum 

Nothing will ever be decided by ALL the clubs. It will pretty much always be majority rules.

[Kayakman]

10 hours ago, Michael1812 said:

I don't know about salaries but attendances and TV numbers are much higher in the CFL. The CFL average attendance is 24,000 and some clubs average over 32,000. And for TV, they get 500,000 to 700,000 viewers per match. 

Can you imagine if each club ran a rugby league side as well?

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Dave T said:

Nothing will ever be decided by ALL the clubs. It will pretty much always be majority rules.

And after a couple of years when those who do not like the 'new system' becomes the majority, we will have a call for another new system, then we will go round again, as sure as eggs is eggs.