SL Club Attendances 2018

[Rupert Prince]

18 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

In the simplest sense, go after work, a few beers and a good match-day experience.

How we do that? many different ways, approach companies early and directly get buy in from them and people will come along for the social side of things. Get out and about in to cities during the day, try walking through Leeds at lunch time on a Thursday there are literally hundreds of thousands of people wandering about.

Clubs arent hosting home games on a thursday every week, its 3 or 4 at the most. Target them for new fans and casuals.

 

'Drive?' from work and then have a few beers... Drive...? Beers..  ?

Where do people work these days anyway. Round the corner? Is work a nice cosy place to be all day such you leave the wife and kids and eastenders and love island and your tea behind and drive, or what ever tortuous journey, to pay a fortune out of your hard earned money for an off chance?

And that's the locals. Go on an away game and add all that in spades!

On a Thursday! Please tell me why the Premiership  are missing  such a big trick by not putting their games on on Thursdays!! Please do.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It doesnt happen. I work in Leeds there is next to nothing happening in the city that would sell the game to you. As I have said Im an RL supporter and go to RL events and the clubs and governing bodies have my details, i work within a £5 taxi fare of the biggest club in the game. I have never been asked if I would like to buy a ticket to an RL game.

Through work I have been offered huge amounts of things, from duck herding to wine-tasting to a night pairing different foods with different bourbons. Im offered discounts on England football games England RU games. Nothing for RL.

RLs sales and marketing strategy, in its entirety is a few banners and roadside boards and an email that goes pretty much straight in to spam.

 

I think that's more to do with the corporate links your company has as I also work in Leeds and at 2 of the last 3 places I've been offered Rhinos tickets. This is diverging a bit from what we were discussing however, as I still don't see how this attracts a new midweek market? 

[SaintGeoff55]

I've been a Rugby league fan since the late 1960s and have seen many ups and downs with attendances. Back in 1974, Leeds and Cas would draw 6000. My own team didn't even get 10,000 for the Wigan derby on Good Friday.  So things could be worse. The north has been very badly hit by the recesssion and government austerity measures. However clubs need to do better to generate a more entertaining event - like the Bulls at the start of SL. Speaking of which - we could do with them back on SL sooner than later plus Toronto. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Decent infrastructure would help.

Thursday night games are fine for TV but for travelling fans with families the wrong option.

Completely agree. Also add to that a culture of a lot of fans to have a few beers before/during/after and Thurs night games become less appealing by the minute to fans attending. 

[Tommygilf]

As a Leeds fan I think the club could do more but are still one of the most professional teams in the game at this.

Whilst I don't think Thursday games should be scrapped wholesale I would make sure teams within a reasonable travelling distances of eachother. 

[Rupert Prince]

23 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

If this is the clubs best. The game is dead.

If the clubs best cannot overcome Thursdays, its done.

Clubs are doing their stuff. You are being willfull

[Yorkie44]

I suppose how to grow a crowd and who to target and how to go about it is a never-ending question at all professional sports clubs.

One obvious area to target would be, and I know this sounds strange but rugby league fans…..

I can obviously only speak for myself here but I also have a good indication of my friends and family.

Personally, I am a huge RL ‘fan’, I visit (mostly read) this site more or less every day, I look on RL related websites again every day, well at least every work day. I have played and still occasionally play the game since I was 8, so 23+ years. Most of my friends have been made through rugby league and many conversations I have with other people (away from work, also sometimes at) probably have some element of an RL background. I own a plethora of RL gear and jerseys, I’ve bought my son loads of shirts since he was born 3 years ago. I have a subscription to Sky and watch the games when I can (or allowed to by the wife), I record the magazine shows and usually watch them. When I go around to my parents my Dad always has the League Express and RL World on table. I would also say the majority of the lads who I play or have played rugby with are in pretty similar to me, in fact I would guarantee it. Also, my friends that don’t play anymore or who have never played also have some sort of interest in the game.

Yet, I have attended a total of 6 pro games this year, York v Bradford and York v Catalan because there was a big buzz and an event made of them, a couple more York games and two Hull FC games. If pushed I would say I was a ‘supporter’ of York and Hull FC but in the past, I’ve been to plenty of games not involving either team as I just like watching rugby. I usually attend the CC Final and Grand Final, I go to a few England games when we have them, I can also say that this is the situation for a good 30-40 people I know and I’d guess at a whole load more too.

Why is this? I haven’t really got a clue, it is possibly because I am not in the habit of going every week or that I cannot make every week, although I know I could make a whole lot more games than I currently do, I just don’t and I don’t know why. I know if I said now to a few people do you fancy going to watch Leeds v Toronto in qualifiers I would get many yes’s, the same is true when someone asks me out of the blue but it is of a very ad hoc nature.

I’ve contemplated about getting a season ticket for York but the lad is still a bit young to sit through a game, I’ve tried a few times but I’ll probably get one when he’s a little older and I can take him to the new stadium instead of the delipidated Bootham Crescent. I don’t think it is cost either York is quite affluent and the majority of people I know have good jobs and plenty of spare cash, I know a lot of people spend time doing other things but I know that I and others have ample opportunity to go but don’t. I know I really enjoy it and speaking with mates, family etc when they go they love it too why we don’t go more I don’t know?

I’m guessing also there are many other people like me, my family and friends with this blasé attitude for attending games?

[Rupert Prince]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Who said they have to drive?

I really dont know what you are talking about.

Taxis? Bus fares for the family?  But if you drive to work you are saying go straight to the game via the pub? Or trowel your tea and then hot foot to the pub/game. And that's just for the home support...

All the effort to support the game by all sides are hobbled by Thursdays, all for the convenience of tv who prefer more ideal dates for football.

You are being willfully blind.  

To all these problems there are the 8s. Nothing from this suggests that clubs are not working to encourage gates, which should always be working hard. I'm not seeing attempts to not do.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Ive worked for different companies, and im not talking about corporate hospitality, im talking about the social side of businesses, work outings happen all the time. Wigan had great success selling thousands of tickets to Heinz.

Rugby League does not sell itself, not just in the matter of its image or branding or marketing, i mean actually go out and ask for business.

Okay - with some things we just have to agree we're not going to agree on. This is one of those times. You think the dip in midweek attendances is an RL problem - I don't. I think we have to by all means do what we can to get fans in for midweek games, but accept it'll be always less than weekend games - you think there's untapped potential. 

My final point would be this - why would any club not want more people to come to games? They wouldn't - so why don't they do more, why are they 'lazy'? Money? Tried and failed in the past? There must be reasons - the bigger clubs at least all have marketing strategists. Is it just a case that RL is unfortunate enough to employ inept ones at all these clubs? I'd suggest that's probably not the case and more to do with the fact that broadcasters want to fill a slot and RL clubs see it as a reasonable loss against the cost of a whole new marketing strategy for as you say what might only be 4/5 midweek games a year. 

[Rupert Prince]

13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

and the results are speaking for themselves.

Yes like Thurs and the 8s...

[MZH]

1 hour ago, fevtom said:

But they still all have lower attendances on weekdays so are they failing too? If Yorkshire can attract 10,000 on a Friday but only 7,000 on a weekday arent they failing to attract these new fans you talk about?

The test match at Trent Bridge is pretty much sold out for Saturday and Sunday but Monday hasn't even sold half the tickets yet. Why are they failing to attract the new midweek fans?

Test matches are different. Monday is the last day, there is every chance the game will be finished by then. If the game is still in the balance going into Monday then a lot of tickets will sell last minute.

Thursday nights are a hurdle, no doubt. But we wont get anywhere by complaining about it. There is no reason you cant get a good crowd in on any day of the week if you market it well.

[fevtom]

10 minutes ago, MZH said:

Test matches are different. Monday is the last day, there is every chance the game will be finished by then. If the game is still in the balance going into Monday then a lot of tickets will sell last minute.

Thursday nights are a hurdle, no doubt. But we wont get anywhere by complaining about it. There is no reason you cant get a good crowd in on any day of the week if you market it well.

Monday in the Trent bridge test match is the third day, the third say at the last Headingley test was the first to sell out when it fell on a weekend.

 

You're right about the marketing though. If we double the general fan base then the Thursday nights should double too, I just think they'll always be behind the weekend fixtures.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

Also, why do people just say 'marketing'. People seem to use the term marketing like the word itself resolves the issue. If you're going to be that vague about the 'how' something happens you might as well just say clubs need to sell more tickets - which is like, well yeah, kind of obvious. Oh and it must be free, because the amount of marketing required in some peoples eyes would surely cost a fortune otherwise. 

[Konkrete]

10yrs is a long time isn't it...

[hunsletgreenandgold]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Clubs do want people to come to games. Some are lazy, some are incompetent, some are cheap, some just arent adapting to a changing world are doing what they have always done and dont know why it isnt working anymore.

Leeds are the biggest club in the game, they are one of the best at selling themselves. They are also fat and happy and are comfortable squeezing a bit more out of the current fanbase paying to sit instead of stand.

15 years ago Leeds stuff was plastered all over the city centre, there was a 30ft poster of Kevin Sinfield on the side of the university, they marketed themselves, they marketed individual games, they went out and sold themselves and got 18k averages. Now you walk through leeds city centre and there is a mobile billboard on hunslet road and a banner outside the tetley factory. Outside of that there is literally nothing to show you they exist.

Because maybe, just maybe, market research (by actual marketing experts and not some people on an RL forum) has shown them this is not the strategy 15 years later. How do we know without the current marketing strategy that actually Leeds attendances wouldn't be 6000, and therefore in fact they're doing a great job? 

[redjonn]

4 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Because maybe, just maybe, market research (by actual marketing experts and not some people on an RL forum) has shown them this is not the strategy 15 years later. How do we know without the current marketing strategy that actually Leeds attendances wouldn't be 6000, and therefore in fact they're doing a great job? 

I guess one of the problems for Leeds is that given the number of season tickets and attendances against the current capacity the cost of promotion for the few available seating their is no point.

It will be interesting to see the approach when the stadium is completed as they will have more availability plus much more corporate to fill.  Might see a "sea change" in approach.

[redjonn]

21 minutes ago, fevtom said:

Monday in the Trent bridge test match is the third day, the third say at the last Headingley test was the first to sell out when it fell on a weekend.

 

You're right about the marketing though. If we double the general fan base then the Thursday nights should double too, I just think they'll always be behind the weekend fixtures.

Then I would suggest should be targeting a different marketing and demographic for Thursday nights.... both commercial sales and non commercial.   I'm retired and have no problems getting anywhere after work - their is a awful lot of us and during the hols we could be taking the grand kids and non working mums too and own partners plus take hospitality if costing is right - just one small example

[fevtom]

6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

 

Facts are that Leeds rhinos have lost about 4k in fans over the past decade or so and you can see with your own eyes that they are doing less marketing activity and they dont sell themselves.

 

 

If you follow the links earlier you'll see that in the 05/09 period Leeds averaged 16,613 compared to 15,228 in the last three years. A decrease yes but not by 4000. In fact if you take the statistics for the period that 14 years ago falls into 00/04 then they've actually increased by 2,000.

Individual seasons will always vary, this season is an anomaly because of the stadium and performances but overall Leeds have increased their average by about 4,000 over the last 20 years. 

[Scarey71]

RL is not aspirational.

RU, yes, Cricket yes...

'I was at the cricket the other evening Gerald and bumped into old so and so from dah dah dah dah'

'Really how is the old boy???'

versus

'I was at the Rugby League the other evening Gerald and bumped into old so and so from dah dah dah dah'

'Really?? How quaint, getting down with the common man eh??? Many whippet about?'

Somehow Bradford managed to almost break that for about 10 years but I'd guess this is where Leeds are now. 

RL is for us 'scuffers', the hoy poly will pin them selves to Union because of the Upper Class connotations (and we all want to vote Tory and worship money these days  ) and the rest follow the football crowd.

Given that football is now just about all year round and incomes are getting tighter we're squeezed as a sport. 

Leeds will know this and also know that they can spend millions on marketing but until the image of the game as a parochial, jealousy riddled,  curiosity is gone, they'll see very little in return.

 

[Rupert Prince]

39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

None of that is any different to a Friday. Its not really an issue.

 

The day after Friday is a weekend. Thursday is not Friday. And if you have played on Sunday and then have to play on Thursday it's worse. I repeat  if Thursday is so clever why do not football play there? I do not follow union, what do they do?

Your logic is flawed, we have to leave it.

[Cowardly Fan]

48 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

My final point would be this - why would any club not want more people to come to games? They wouldn't - so why don't they do more, why are they 'lazy'? Money? Tried and failed in the past? There must be reasons - the bigger clubs at least all have marketing strategists. Is it just a case that RL is unfortunate enough to employ inept ones at all these clubs? 

They aren't incompetent, but RL clubs generally pay worse than average so they don't get the best people. The bigger problem in my opinion is resources - it's often 1 or 2 people working in marketing and they definitely can't get the technology they need. Its a difficult problem, which I've written about before on here. I had a couple of ex colleagues who went from football to rugby league clubs, they struggled to get things done mainly due to these issues.

24 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Because maybe, just maybe, market research (by actual marketing experts and not some people on an RL forum) has shown them this is not the strategy 15 years later. How do we know without the current marketing strategy that actually Leeds attendances wouldn't be 6000, and therefore in fact they're doing a great job? 

There's some fairness in this, we tend to like billboards and such because they're so visible. As someone who works in market research and attribution though I'm pretty certain Leeds have no idea of the impact of them on ticket sales, it's an incredibly difficult thing to estimate. 

32 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Also, why do people just say 'marketing'. People seem to use the term marketing like the word itself resolves the issue. If you're going to be that vague about the 'how' something happens you might as well just say clubs need to sell more tickets - which is like, well yeah, kind of obvious. Oh and it must be free, because the amount of marketing required in some peoples eyes would surely cost a fortune otherwise. 

There are many things, but just a couple of examples:

Targeting local businesses for hospitality. You can buy business databases relatively cheap and has a good return in my experience. 

Market research is pretty much non existent, understand why people attend, don't renew season tickets, what we can improve in the grounds for starters. I've only seen Warrington and RFL surveys, both have been poor, in fact I've used the Warrington one as a bad example for training. 

I really think there'd be huge benefits if they could group together - Wigan or Leeds don't need a market researcher or designer full time, but a few hours a week. If they could pay to a central team they could have better people, systems and avoid expensive agency fees. I doubt it will happen any time soon though. 

[shaun mc]

Huge difference between Thursday and Friday for me

I don't even settle down to watch the games on a Thursday never mind attending, except for a one-off

The plethora of Thursday games aren't one-offs

 

[Ackroman]

Mid week matches fill TV schedules not stadiums.

[MZH]

1 hour ago, fevtom said:

Monday in the Trent bridge test match is the third day, the third say at the last Headingley test was the first to sell out when it fell on a weekend.

 

You're right about the marketing though. If we double the general fan base then the Thursday nights should double too, I just think they'll always be behind the weekend fixtures.

Apologies. I was thinking it was the match being played now that was being referred to. 

I would have still been wrong since this one finishes on Sunday. 

[Cowardly Fan]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

This, massively massively so, there is so much duplication that clubs do and so many savings that could be made if they could be convinced to work together instead of against each other.

Not just in relation to marketing but things like social media, web design, sales, right down to the match day experience. It something i see in the game all the time, we seem to be happy to spend 10k 12 times to do something poorly instead of paying £120k once to do it well.

Absolutely, it could be across so many areas and clubs would still have control. It's a shame even 100k could be enough to trial it for one area, the RFL could fund that and if successful that may get the clubs to put in some funds to expand it. 

One thing you will hear from football clubs is they see their competition as other sports and leisure. Rugby league clubs still seem to act as if they are competing with each other off the field.