Have we given up on Russia

[rlno1]

Read an article in latest Forty20 magazine covering the number of players world wide, mentioned many nations, yet not a word on Russia.

Has the game given up on them as there is hardly any mention of domestic Russian rugby league. The only mention is when they play the odd international.

It would be a huge shame if we give up on them as the game has been played since the early 90's.

All the talk now is Ukraine, Serbia etc.

Anyone have updates on the state of play in Russia?

[Blackpool rl]

1 hour ago, rlno1 said:

Read an article in latest Forty20 magazine covering the number of players world wide, mentioned many nations, yet not a word on Russia.

Has the game given up on them as there is hardly any mention of domestic Russian rugby league. The only mention is when they play the odd international.

It would be a huge shame if we give up on them as the game has been played since the early 90's.

All the talk now is Ukraine, Serbia etc.

Anyone have updates on the state of play in Russia?

Do you have a link to the article?

Any countries have weirdly high numbers?

[Allora]

What did we do for them?

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, rlno1 said:

Read an article in latest Forty20 magazine covering the number of players world wide, mentioned many nations, yet not a word on Russia.

Has the game given up on them as there is hardly any mention of domestic Russian rugby league. The only mention is when they play the odd international.

It would be a huge shame if we give up on them as the game has been played since the early 90's.

All the talk now is Ukraine, Serbia etc.

Anyone have updates on the state of play in Russia? 

The game in Russia has had some ups and downs over the years but seems in a reasonable state at the moment, with solid domestic development. A couple of links below.

https://www.rugbyleagueplanet.com/international-rugby-league-news/russia/

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/russia-participation-in-world-cup-qualifiers-to-give-rugby-league-a-boost/

They're not very public about their domestic activity, probably for fear of getting shut down by the yawnion lot like other nations

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I remember a huge surge in Russia in the early 2000s, with teams playing in the Challenge Cup and the international team getting 5 figure crowds against the likes of USA.

It all suddenly stopped. I can't remember when, but seem to recall some kind of fall out and lots went to rugby union.

[bobbruce]

21 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I remember a huge surge in Russia in the early 2000s, with teams playing in the Challenge Cup and the international team getting 5 figure crowds against the likes of USA.

It all suddenly stopped. I can't remember when, but seem to recall some kind of fall out and lots went to rugby union.

My memory is the game there had a fall out with the money man at the biggest club. Which caused a big rift. That was then followed by RU 7s being accepted into the Olympics. With the Olympics being a priority in Russia it meant a lot of funding was then diverted into 7s. 

[Wigan Riversider]

Saw Locomotive Moscow play Chorley Lynx in 2004 Challenge Cup but no idea what happened to Moscow team.Lynx sadly folded at the end of that season.

[langpark]

It's almost 2019 and Russia still remains a black hole when it comes to RL info.  You cannot begrudge Ukraine and Serbia etc. for getting more publicity when they are doing a better job of getting their photos, match reports and general info out there.  It is so easy in this day and age to do it, there is no excuse not to be doing it.  All mobile phones have cameras and internet access now, Social media is free.  Literally no excuse for not publicising RL activity. 

Regarding the thread title, have "we" given up on Russia, who is "we"?

[headtackle]

Seem to remember England playing Russia in a World Cup at Knowsley Road many years back

[headtackle]

memory not failing    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Rugby_League_World_Cup#Final_standings 

less than 6000 for an England fixture !

 

 

[welshmagpie]

Anyone remember Roman Ovchinikov? Arguably Russia’s greatest ever product.

He was a hooker who went on trial at Wests Tigers somewhere between 2005 and 2010 IIRC

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

5 hours ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Saw Locomotive Moscow play Chorley Lynx in 2004 Challenge Cup 

Me too.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

Also saw Tiraspol play Wigan 'A' at Central Park

[Jblake]

Remember seeing Moscow magicians (got a pin badge somewhere)) play Huddersfield in a friendly, two teams came over. Think that was prior to CC games. There was also "In 1993 six teams were invited to take part in an inaugural European Clubs Championship, the six teams consisted of two from the USSR; Tiraspol and Moscow Magicians, two from France; AS Carcassonne and XIII Catalan and Batley and Huddersfield" which may be the game I'm thinking of, final was in Barcelona.

[winnyason]

Russia issue was dynamo money man walked away after infighting with locomotiv boss. At the time as noted victory cup where getting large crowds.

Rugby union 7s getting Olympics meant rugby league lost locomotiv, dynamo and both the strong kazan clubs who themselves hosted barla with significant crowds.

Game was then derigistered by government has been given recognition but has to be totally amateur. I seen locomotiv are involved again. However the federation website down which does not help. 

 

[Chamey]

8 hours ago, bobbruce said:

My memory is the game there had a fall out with the money man at the biggest club. Which caused a big rift. That was then followed by RU 7s being accepted into the Olympics. With the Olympics being a priority in Russia it meant a lot of funding was then diverted into 7s. 

That’s a pretty decent summary, the massively dominant club switched to Union because the money man was annoyed at the group running RLrussia. Then RU7s became an Olympic sport, and (local) government decision makers decided to fund 7s over any other form, and additionally RURussia said that to enter teams in RU7s competitions you also need to participate in RUXVs (but not be exclusively RU). Hence the rest of the leading teams (who were originally RU clubs) switched and RLRussia sunk within the stretch of a few months, to the point where it was no longer fulfilling Government requirements, and was derecognised as an NGB. 

[B rad]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_league_in_Russia

 

Olympic Status of Rugby Union Sevens and the expulsion of Rugby League from the State Register of Sports of Russia[edit]

By mid-2009 the three major clubs of Russian Rugby League had moved over to Rugby Union as a result of government pressure to achieve results in rugby union sevens, newly designated as an Olympic Sport. These clubs were Kazan Arrows, Dinamo Moscow and the champions for the past eight years, Lokomotiv Moscow.^[3][4]

Russian Ministry of Sports order number 21 dated January 20, 2010 expelled the Rugby League from the State Register of Sports of Russia.^[5] The reasoning for the expulsion was reportedly due to the Ministry's view that Rugby League was not a separate sport from rugby union.^[6]

In February a new president of the RRLF was elected, Alexander Eremin. Mr Eremin, the board members and employees of the RRLF are currently investigating the potential for the continuation of Rugby League in Russia with various government, civic and sports organizations, in particular the ministry of Sports and Rugby Union of Russia ^[5]

After the turmoil of the RRLF losing clubs and players, Edward Taturian has now caused a split with the Rugby League Federation, to potentially form an Association of Rugby League Clubs.

 

 

 

Now the good news. Russia are currently still in contention for the next RLWC and have over 2000 registered players.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Championship_(rugby_league)

 

2018 Teams

Moscow Magicians
CSKA Moscow
Muscovites Spartak
Sparta
Vereya
Vityez
Ural RLFC
Bersek
RC Adrenalin

 

[rlno1]

10 hours ago, Blackpool rl said:

Do you have a link to the article?

Any countries have weirdly high numbers?

No unfortunately. The article is titled, Pidgin fanciers by Gavin Willacy and goes into participation data worldwide with particular focus on PNG and their potential.

Listed is a table of the top 10 nations by participation:

Australia - 150,000

PNG - 120,000

England - 65,000

New Zealand - 20,000

France - 16,000

Fiji - 4,000

Tonga - 2,200

Wales - 1,600

Samoa - 1,000

Jamaica - 1,000

In the hundreds were Cook Islands (one in 17 males play the game), Lebanon (800), Scotland, Ireland, Italy, USA, Serbia, and Ukraine (800).

In Asia there are a couple of hundred players in the Philippines, Japan, Thailand, and Hong Kong.

There are also similar sized rugby league communities in South America in Chile, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and El Salvador.

Yet no mention of Russia, a nation whose clubs once participated in the Challenge Cup and included strong clubs like Vereya Bears. Has this all been lost because the game's focus has moved elsewhere. If so will the same happen to the above smaller nations once it becomes too hard.

The Russians would be a huge loss.

[rlno1]

11 hours ago, Allora said:

What did we do for them?

Exactly and this has been the problem of the game for 100 years once the game isn't self sufficient in a particular area or club the game just moves elsewhere.

I recall Colin Love the RLIF director visiting Russia when they drew 20 plus thousand in Moscow. He did nothing for them after that so a nice holiday for him.

[rlno1]

Found this list of past Russian Championships:

1991 - Tiraspol
1992 - Moscow Magicians
1993 - Moscow Magicians / RC Lokomotive Moscow / Kazan Arrows
1994 - Moscow Magicians
1995 - Moscow Magicians / Kazan Arrows
1996 - Strela Locomotive / Kazan Arrows
1997 - Strela Locomotive / Kazan Arrows
1998 - Kazan Arrows
1999 - Kazan Arrows
2000 - RC Lokomotive Moscow
2001 - Kazan Arrows
2002 - RC Lokomotive Moscow
2003 - RC Lokomotive Moscow
2004 - RC Lokomotive Moscow
2005 - RC Lokomotive Moscow
2006 - 
2007 - RC Lokomotive Moscow
2008 -

[rlno1]

9 hours ago, langpark said:

It's almost 2019 and Russia still remains a black hole when it comes to RL info.  You cannot begrudge Ukraine and Serbia etc. for getting more publicity when they are doing a better job of getting their photos, match reports and general info out there.  It is so easy in this day and age to do it, there is no excuse not to be doing it.  All mobile phones have cameras and internet access now, Social media is free.  Literally no excuse for not publicising RL activity. 

Regarding the thread title, have "we" given up on Russia, who is "we"?

The people who distribute the money, provide support and leadership.

The supporters haven't that's why these topics pop up.

[rlno1]

6 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Anyone remember Roman Ovchinikov? Arguably Russia’s greatest ever product.

He was a hooker who went on trial at Wests Tigers somewhere between 2005 and 2010 IIRC

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/russian-to-claw-his-way-to-nrl-big-time-20070324-gdpr1t.html

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/wests-tigers-say-goodbye-to-russian-20070615-gdqe9d.html

He was with the club for about 3 months

[rlno1]

Lokomotiv Moscow first entered the Challenge Cup in 2003

https://www.leighjournal.co.uk/sport/leighcenturions/4179151.Lokomotiv_aim_to_express_themselves_against_Leigh_Centurions/

Russian clubs played in the Challenge Cup:

2003 - Locomotiv Moscow and Strela Kazan 

2004 - Locomotiv Moscow and Dynamo Moscow 

2005 - Locomotiv Moscow and Strela Kazan

2006 - Locomotiv Moscow and Strela Kazan

2007 - Locomotiv Moscow and Strela Kazan

2008 - Locomotiv Moscow and Vereya Bears

2009 - Locomotiv Moscow

Dynamo Moscow were the only club to record a win, beating West Bowling 22-18 in Round 2 before losing to Rochdale Hornets 60-24 in the next round.

The major fallout with the games financial backer who was a Dynamo man occured in January 2005 yet the game still managed to survive:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_league_in_Russia

Quote

Cross roads of 2005[edit]

One of the best years for the game in Russia had to be 2004, thanks mostly to Akhmet Kamaldinov, then president of the RRFL. Kamaldinov also took on role of financier to not just the federation, but the game of rugby league in Russia, providing money, referees’ kit and development work for the league and equipment for all of the RRFL clubs as well as funding and organising major international events such as the Victory Cup. The game in Russia which had achieved steady gains since his arrival with junior numbers up and the national league looking strong.

Only weeks after an internal row between the Dinamo and Locomotive clubs in Moscow led to the exit of national coach Bob Bailey, there now seemed to be pressure from Locomotive on Kamaldinov's presidency of the RRFL. Locomotive were of the opinion that they and not Kamaldinov should run the RRFL. The 29 January 2005 was pencilled in as the day that would decide Kamaldinov's future with the RRFL. On word of the unrest in Russia, the RLEF representative flew out to the 29 January meeting in an effort to restore harmony in the RRFL.

The meeting ended badly and unfortunately led to Kamaldinov's and Vladmimir Dolgin's resignations from the RRFL as president and chairman respectively. Following Kamaldinov's departure it was feared he would leave rugby league altogether; in what could have been the crushing blow to the game in Russia, Kamaldinov withdrew all support for the game as financier to the federation, its clubs and even went as far as to move club Dinamo to a rugby union sevens league.

Despite all that happened early in the year, the RRFL went ahead with its annual championship, including the youth world cup, which was thought by many not to go ahead. The jury is still out as to whether or not rugby league in Russia can survive its latest crisis.

The big hit for the game seems to be the IOC accepting union sevens as an Olympic sport in October 2009

which soon followed the deregistering of Rugby League by the government in January 2010.

It is no coincidence the Russian Rugby League have not played in the Challenge Cup since 2009.

 

[Blackpool rl]

2 hours ago, rlno1 said:

No unfortunately. The article is titled, Pidgin fanciers by Gavin Willacy and goes into participation data worldwide with particular focus on PNG and their potential.

Listed is a table of the top 10 nations by participation:

Australia - 150,000

PNG - 120,000

England - 65,000

New Zealand - 20,000

France - 16,000

Fiji - 4,000

Tonga - 2,200

Wales - 1,600

Samoa - 1,000

Jamaica - 1,000

In the hundreds were Cook Islands (one in 17 males play the game), Lebanon (800), Scotland, Ireland, Italy, USA, Serbia, and Ukraine (800).

In Asia there are a couple of hundred players in the Philippines, Japan, Thailand, and Hong Kong.

There are also similar sized rugby league communities in South America in Chile, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and El Salvador.

Yet no mention of Russia, a nation whose clubs once participated in the Challenge Cup and included strong clubs like Vereya Bears. Has this all been lost because the game's focus has moved elsewhere. If so will the same happen to the above smaller nations once it becomes too hard.

The Russians would be a huge loss.

PNG really under achieving with the playing pool they have. If they get there act together and set up some structures and systems, they could compete for the World Cup.

[B rad]

4 minutes ago, Blackpool rl said:

PNG really under achieving with the playing pool they have. If they get there act together and set up some structures and systems, they could compete for the World Cup.

I don't think PNG are under achieving. They made the finals of the last RLWC. They only have a few NRL players most of their team are semi professional from the PNG Hunters in the QLD cup. Considering every player from Australia New Zealand England Tonga are NRL or Super League professionals, Fiji have about one or 2 non professionals in their squad and Wales Scotland Ireland are all professional or semi professional Id say they are going ok against the current competition. 

 

If they had more money to invest in the team they obviously have a lot of room to improve with 8 million league loving people from that nation, but working with what they are going ok. They haven't lost a game to a 2nd tier nation since the Hunters came in 2014.