Luther Burrell (Merged Threads)

[JCXV]

9 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Rather negative assessment. Where do you see him playing?

Centre. If Wire had hired Tuilagi then you'd have a worldy loose-forward to carry the ball up and then maim in defence. Burrell isn't like that. However, it's all guesswork isn't it, he might find a new lease of life and confidence and be a great player. 

 

[JCXV]

21 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Ours is a much much harder  game, so the risks associated with the sporting challenge would deter a lot of people. 

I really don't think that is true any more. At any one time about 26% of players in professional RU are injured (96 injuries every 1000 hours) and on average a team will sustain two player injuries every match. It is extremely attritional. 

There was a very conclusive study done in the Premiership 16/17 season. Not sure if RL has done a study to this depth but it would be interesting to compare notes. 

https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/32/91/95/InjurySurveillanceReport2016-17_English.pdf

[Cheshire Setter]

34 minutes ago, JCXV said:

Centre. If Wire had hired Tuilagi then you'd have a worldy loose-forward to carry the ball up and then maim in defence. Burrell isn't like that. However, it's all guesswork isn't it, he might find a new lease of life and confidence and be a great player. 

 

From the highlights I see him fitting more into a Maurie Fa'asavalu type role at second row.   Less exposure in defence but explosive running.

I think his first team debut is a long long time away yet anyway, judging by the sound bites from Steve Price.   He’s under no pressure to slot straight in and he won’t be considered until he’s 100% ready.   My guess would be a slow introduction throughout 2020, which gives him July onwards of this season for conditioning and core skills, and then a full pre-season for team stuff.

[JCXV]

51 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

From the highlights I see him fitting more into a Maurie Fa'asavalu type role at second row.   Less exposure in defence but explosive running.

I think his first team debut is a long long time away yet anyway, judging by the sound bites from Steve Price.   He’s under no pressure to slot straight in and he won’t be considered until he’s 100% ready.   My guess would be a slow introduction throughout 2020, which gives him July onwards of this season for conditioning and core skills, and then a full pre-season for team stuff.

1

If Northampton don't make it into the top 4 (which is very highly likely) then he will be able to join Warrington on the 19th May which means he could play against Catalans on 6th June in Round 17. Don't be at all surprised if he is involved in that fixture, in fact, I reckon, if he is injury free, that he is almost certainly pencilled in already. 

[MatthewWoody]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Ours is a much much harder  game, so the risks associated with the sporting challenge would deter a lot of people. 

Well, what you say is true, but I'd keep the more money/better International scene etc. option if you ask me why players don't switch from ru to rl. 

[Cheshire Setter]

44 minutes ago, JCXV said:

If Northampton don't make it into the top 4 (which is very highly likely) then he will be able to join Warrington on the 19th May which means he could play against Catalans on 6th June in Round 17. Don't be at all surprised if he is involved in that fixture, in fact, I reckon, if he is injury free, that he is almost certainly pencilled in already. 

Price has stated publicly that Burrell needs to shed some kilos, and he needs to get conditioned for the different aerobic requirements of the code.   That will take a couple of months at least so potentially could be ready for the crucial rounds of the season.   However, that would be a huge risk if there’s already cover at centre and second row.   Price makes no secret of the fact that players only get in his team on form not reputation.

My guess is that IF he appears this season it will be in the cup against lower league opposition, probably on the wing or sub second row.

Woudl be nice for the fans to get an early look, and also a good way to boost the gates of a cup tie against a smaller club.

[RP London]

41 minutes ago, JCXV said:

If Northampton don't make it into the top 4 (which is very highly likely) then he will be able to join Warrington on the 19th May which means he could play against Catalans on 6th June in Round 17. Don't be at all surprised if he is involved in that fixture, in fact, I reckon, if he is injury free, that he is almost certainly pencilled in already. 

not a chance.. IMHO.. he hasnt played for years, he needs to blend in with the squad and team and frankly with the squad that Wire have I cannot see a place for him at the moment. He is a project for next year where they will see how he goes and maybe release a weightier cap player for the 2020 season. An injury in the centres may well speed him in but he wouldnt get ahead of Atkins, Godwin or King certainly not with 1 weeks training. I doubt he would get into the centres above Ratchford (with Mamu going to fullback) either. In the Second Row he is way down the pecking order.. again especially with 1 weeks training. 

its not easy to switch and I think he will struggle initially.. 

[Dunbar]

If this guy comes to Wire and plays well after just a few weeks it is going to blow a few minds on here.

[RP London]

21 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If this guy comes to Wire and plays well after just a few weeks it is going to blow a few minds on here.

i'd hardly say it would "blow a few minds" but yes people may be a bit surprised but thats born out of experience too. 

[Cheshire Setter]

27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If this guy comes to Wire and plays well after just a few weeks it is going to blow a few minds on here.

I don't think most people are doubting his ability or his talents, but he WILL need time to adjust to the differences.   That's not to say he couldn't score a freakish, entertaining try - which I'm sure he could based on his highlights - but his defensive positioning and RL match-fitness (which is different to that of RU due to the constant 10m shuttle) could be easily exposed and prove costly.   Ask Sam Burgess about being pushed in and made a scapegoat...!

Better to take our time with him (as the club has made quite clear) and once he's starting to get the hang of the structures AND his conditioning is finalised, we may get to see what he's all about.   It would be unfair to put him under pressure with an early debut and the club have stressed their patience with him in this regard.

[EastLondonMike]

Obviously both games are very different now, and no doubt Union conditioning is completely professional, but recall Tuigamala's debut for Wigan away at Widnes some years back. He'd spent a month or so (at least) working on fitness and etc and looked like he'd run a marathon at the end of his first game. 

Fit for purpose. If your body isn't used to doing a certain type of cardio its going to take a bit of time to adjust.

Not wanting to labour the point about the differences in the type of conditioning, but theres also the mental aspect. In union, playing in the centre's, I'd imagine you get a bit more time working out whats coming at you, and less bodies to look at. In Rugby League you rarely have that luxury. It will also take some time adjusting to the mental demands.

Looking forward to seeing how he goes though. Good luck to him.

[JCXV]

37 minutes ago, RP London said:

i'd hardly say it would "blow a few minds" but yes people may be a bit surprised but thats born out of experience too. 

Experience from 25+ years ago perhaps. 

[JCXV]

35 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I don't think most people are doubting his ability or his talents, but he WILL need time to adjust to the differences.   That's not to say he couldn't score a freakish, entertaining try - which I'm sure he could based on his highlights - but his defensive positioning and RL match-fitness (which is different to that of RU due to the constant 10m shuttle) could be easily exposed and prove costly.   Ask Sam Burgess about being pushed in and made a scapegoat...!

Better to take our time with him (as the club has made quite clear) and once he's starting to get the hang of the structures AND his conditioning is finalised, we may get to see what he's all about.   It would be unfair to put him under pressure with an early debut and the club have stressed their patience with him in this regard.

 

He's 31 years old, there's simply no value in keeping him on ice for a year before his debut. 

[JCXV]

5 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

In union, playing in the centre's, I'd imagine you get a bit more time working out whats coming at you, and less bodies to look at. In Rugby League you rarely have that luxury. It will also take some time adjusting to the mental demands.

3

I don't think I could disagree more, to be honest. There is less time (due to the offside line being 10m nearer), and there are more bodies to look, not less (the obvious 15>13 but also the way modern RU teams play with 2 separate pods of forwards in midfield on phase play). 

[Cheshire Setter]

8 minutes ago, JCXV said:

 

He's 31 years old, there's simply no value in keeping him on ice for a year before his debut. 

So then we see the best of him at 32 and 33.   It isn't costing the club anything at all either way - our owners have funded it, probably hoping the move comes off but also generating a bit of publicity at the same time.   I'm not sure there was any serious consideration to him playing this season anyway, joining at such a late stage...   However, the cap rules allow us to put him in the squad which is handy as we can slowly introduce him back into it, and if he looks good on Dual Reg we have some handy cover for second row when Westwood is on his monthly rest and recuperation spa weekend provided by the Disciplinary Board.

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, JCXV said:

I don't think I could disagree more, to be honest. There is less time (due to the offside line being 10m nearer), and there are more bodies to look, not less (the obvious 15>13 but also the way modern RU teams play with 2 separate pods of forwards in midfield on phase play). 

What is the average tackle count for a centre in Union out of interest? 

[dkw]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What is the average tackle count for a centre in Union out of interest? 

About 12.....

 

 

Per season.

[JCXV]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What is the average tackle count for a centre in Union out of interest? 

Depends how you count tackles I guess. If you count the 2, 3 or 4th man in as a tackle then one tackle effectively gets counted 4 times. That doesn't happen in RU. Centres also have to clear out and hit rucks. What can appear the same is often very different. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, JCXV said:

Depends how you count tackles I guess. If you count the 2, 3 or 4th man in as a tackle then one tackle effectively gets counted 4 times. That doesn't happen in RU. Centres also have to clear out and hit rucks. What can appear the same is often very different. 

Using Union methodology, how many per match? The stats section on the RU site appears non-existent, unless it is my browser. 

[JCXV]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Using Union methodology, how many per match? The stats section on the RU site appears non-existent, unless it is my browser. 

 

I don't keep count when I watch, to be honest. I think tackles have to be completed to count and if they get an offload away then that doesn't count as a tackle either. 

How many tackles do you get in an average SL match?

[ELBOWSEYE]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

P He is a project for next year where they will see how he goes and maybe release a weightier cap player for the 2020 season. 

Warrington have quoted he wont affect the cap till 2021 season, and the only 50%.

[Bert1]

No doubt he will be watching more league games now, absorbing what's going on and preparing himself with extra Phys. Get him involved as soon as possible I say. People are acting like Jason Leonard is crossing over.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, JCXV said:

Experience from 25+ years ago perhaps. 

no.. not at all.. 2010 saw Gareth Thomas come over in a like for like positional change and I would suggest that in any other side bar Crusaders he would have had more time to acclimatise. He played ok didnt pull up any trees in his first months and he was a better player than Luther Burrell

2013 saw Andy Powell come over.. again I would suggest a player that should have fitted in, he was not very good. 

We arent saying he wont succeed but the sunday after joining on the monday is way too hopeful to be in the 19 let alone the 17 that is all. Give the lad some time so that you give him the best chance to succeed.. throwing him in early would be irresponsible IMHO

[RP London]

1 hour ago, JCXV said:

 

He's 31 years old, there's simply no value in keeping him on ice for a year before his debut. 

to be fair there is even less value in him being brought in too early and sub par performances with a reduced interchange rule this year could potentially cost you point.. 

 

this is our year... dont mess it up with a PR signing  

[RP London]

40 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Warrington have quoted he wont affect the cap till 2021 season, and the only 50%.

thats why i was saying if he looks ok you can offload a weighter cap player.... therefore freeing up a really nice piece of cap space as you have a player free.