Headingley redevelopment

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Which is why most people will regard it to be 3/4 of good stadium, but never a great one. You mentioned yourself that you were disappointed the club rested on their laurels in terms of the home fanbase - you can safely say they did even less than that for away fans. I get the Rhinos probably have stats that back up away fans aren't a great source of revenue, but not a great look to have 3 shiny home stands and the away stand unchanged in decades. And I'm sure many will still come to Headingley to follow their team - but purely out of loyalty rather than any kind of great match day experience, especially if it's raining. 

You’re assuming everyone sees the terrace as a bad thing there could be an argument that having the original terrace keeps part of its original ‘charm’

[hunsletgreenandgold]

5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

There’s nothing to stop away supporters buying a ticket to stand or indeed sit in a covered area

 

is away support generally larger at fully covered grounds such as Ssints, Warrington etc?

There isn't but anyone who comes to Headingley knows the away end is the Western Terrace. Also, not sure it would be a great outcome if 2,000 <insert team with large away following> decided to purchase tickets in the south stand. That's forgetting the fact the Rhinos aim will be to go back to selling out those 'home' areas. 

I don't have any stats to back it up but visually it would appear to me more fans travel to the likes of Wire/saints than they do Headingley - especially in inclement weather.  

[fieldofclothofgold]

4 hours ago, Padge said:

As you have just pointed out it is not a purpose  built rugby league ground.

Why ? 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

You’re assuming everyone sees the terrace as a bad thing there could be an argument that having the original terrace keeps part of its original ‘charm’

True - maybe that's why Cas and Wakey haven't bothered with their new stadiums. They're assuming ultimately the 'charm' of their grounds is the future....very clever.

[fieldofclothofgold]

2 hours ago, Padge said:

Focag stated it was built in 1890 as a purpose built Rugby league ground. I was merely pointing out that that was a load of bollards. 

You're splitting hairs It was pointed out that two stadiums that are really built for Association football and to accommodate RL are better than Headingley. I was pointing out that it is a ground purpose built for RL , if you want to split hairs about 1890 5 years pre split people could claim Elland Road is not a purpose built association football ground ,why ? 

[Padge]

3 minutes ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

You're splitting hairs It was pointed out that two stadiums that are really built for Association football and to accommodate RL are better than Headingley. I was pointing out that it is a ground purpose built for RL , if you want to split hairs about 1890 5 years pre split people could claim Elland Road is not a purpose built association football ground ,why ? 

Couldn't care less about the cesspit at Elland Road, you were making a claim that was a nonsense.

[fieldofclothofgold]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

Couldn't care less about the cesspit at Elland Road, you were making a claim that was a nonsense.

No ! Just because Leeds St John's was a RU club 5 years  before the split you cant say it's not a purpose built Rugby League ground ,Northern Union ,Rugby etc whatever . Elland Road is a purpose built association Football ground even though before Leeds City moved in It was used by Holbeck NU and before 1895 Holbeck Rugby.  Union . It's still a purpose built soccer ground and Headingley is a purpose built RL ground and the DW Stadium is a purpose built association Football ground 

[Chrispmartha]

29 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I disagree for two reasons, firstly away fans make up such a small amount of visitors to headingley its irrelevant. 

Secondly, I like the western terrace. If its sunny that's where I stand. It is as good as any place in the northern hemisphere to watch Rugby League on a warm summers evening. Swapping the western terrace for even a covered stand would lose something. 

I also don't get this idea that under covered stands you stay dry, the wettest I have ever got at headingley was in the Carnegie stand, and ive got soaked at Wembley, Old Trafford, Olypimpiastadion, St James Park. 

It seems a bit of an overstatement of its importance when its a relatively minor difference, to a relatively small amount of people, a relatively small amount of the time. 

True, I got absolutely soaked through watching Leeds v Hull KR at Elland Road last year sat in a ‘covered’ stand

[hunsletgreenandgold]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I disagree for two reasons, firstly away fans make up such a small amount of visitors to headingley its irrelevant. 

Secondly, I like the western terrace. If its sunny that's where I stand. It is as good as any place in the northern hemisphere to watch Rugby League on a warm summers evening. Swapping the western terrace for even a covered stand would lose something. 

I also don't get this idea that under covered stands you stay dry, the wettest I have ever got at headingley was in the Carnegie stand, and ive got soaked at Wembley, Old Trafford, Olypimpiastadion, St James Park. 

It seems a bit of an overstatement of its importance when its a relatively minor difference, to a relatively small amount of people, a relatively small amount of the time. 

Away fans can on some match days account for up 15% of the overall attendance - hardly irrelevant. I get the point about when it’s sunny, my point relates to all the times it isn’t. Does having a roof guarantee you won’t get wet? No. Does it vastly increase the chance you won’t get (as) wet? Massively. I think you along with a few others are way understating this to be honest, Scotchy, when in reality we all know that the stand would 100% have been redeveloped had it not have been for the housing behind the stand - so let’s not pretend it’s been kept like that for any other reason. 

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

The differences between Cas and Wakey and Leeds are choice, at Leeds you can go for a fancy cushioned seat, you can go for amongst the best corporate hospitality there is or you can stand on the western terrace. 

At Cas and Wakefield your options are limited to poor facilities. 

Secondly, the biggest issue with Cas and Wakey isn't that it isn't new and shiny and fancy, its that it is falling down, costs a fortune to keep open and puts people off. 

Every rugby ground in SL has an away section, where away fans like to congregate - it’s part of the away day experience. So to tell fans if you don’t want to get wet you either need to go on the home side standing terraces or in the seats at significantly more expense isn’t really a great option. So no, Headingley doesn’t really have better options than Cas or Wakey for away fans. 

I love Headingley, because I visit it as a home fan. I too enjoy standing to the right of the posts on the western terrace on balmy summer evenings. But I also know if it’s forecast rain then I can pick the south or Carnegie - away fans don’t feel they have that option and that’s the issue for me. If we’re saying Leeds don’t care about away fans then fair enough but Leeds fans can’t get all offended when the wider RL fan base completely disagrees that Headingley is one of the best stadiums in the league, because from their perspective it really isn’t. 

[East of the Moon]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I disagree for two reasons, firstly away fans make up such a small amount of visitors to headingley its irrelevant. 

Secondly, I like the western terrace. If its sunny that's where I stand. It is as good as any place in the northern hemisphere to watch Rugby League on a warm summers evening. Swapping the western terrace for even a covered stand would lose something. 

I also don't get this idea that under covered stands you stay dry, the wettest I have ever got at headingley was in the Carnegie stand, and ive got soaked at Wembley, Old Trafford, Olypimpiastadion, St James Park. 

It seems a bit of an overstatement of its importance when its a relatively minor difference, to a relatively small amount of people, a relatively small amount of the time. 

I've sat and stood all around the ground at Headingley, at the moment in the new North Stand having transferred from the South Stand seating, I've also stood in the SS. Sat in the Carnegie Stand, stood on the terrace as well in previous seasons. The most enjoyable time was standing on the Western terrace in season 2017, the late evening sun added to the ambiance, the atmosphere....food and drink readily available, banter with away fans readily available, never any trouble for me, good and quick access to get away for buses and car parks to Kirkstall Lane and points south, west and east.

I like the watching experience from all points, the opulent modern facilities of the new stands to the historic Western terrace, yes you can be unlucky on a wet night but I personally have experienced more mild and pleasant evenings than wet ones. In fact for next season I've decided to not renew my membership because I enjoy the options of buying a ticket for different locations which will definitely include the Western terrace...it's great standing there!!

[John Rhino]

On 15/06/2019 at 02:38, Sparse Attendance said:

It does look a really good stadium, well three parts of it.

So for away fans it doesn’t really matter how pretty & nice the other three stands are, and perhaps for some Leeds fans as well who stand at the scoreboard end.

Do Leeds allocate a seating section for away fans. I might be tempted if it wasn’t  too expensive, but i could see it being £27 which isn’t cheap if there is someone like me on a poor-ish wage. 

There is no away stand at Headingley 

[Leyther_Matt]

2 hours ago, John Rhino said:

There is no away stand at Headingley 

Bar the odd handful of North Stand seats, can you tell me how many away clubs have been allocated tickets in areas other than the Western Terrace please?

[Gav Wilson]

13 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Bar the odd handful of North Stand seats, can you tell me how many away clubs have been allocated tickets in areas other than the Western Terrace please?

You just answered your own question.

 

My brother is a part-time Wigan fan, and he was stood in the new South Stand last Friday too.

[whatmichaelsays]

22 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

If it had no or little impact then why would every* new build stadium in the country bother to put on a roof? The sport is played Feb to Oct - June would be one of those dry months I guess.....

*excluding maybe cricket

Because the cost-benefit analysis is a totally different picture when comparing a new-build venue to a stand that would have to be closed, demolished, re-engineered, re-designed, re-constructed and re-opened within the constraints of much harder geography and planning regulation. 

If there was evidence that the lack of cover on the Western Terrace is itself a factor that is costing Leeds significant amounts in terms of unsold tickets, then there's a business case for it. But I doubt that what evidence there is shows that it's enough of a loss to justify the cost - particuarly given that those unsold tickets are from supporters that offer the least value to the club. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

4 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Because the cost-benefit analysis is a totally different picture when comparing a new-build venue to a stand that would have to be closed, demolished, re-engineered, re-designed, re-constructed and re-opened within the constraints of much harder geography and planning regulation. 

If there was evidence that the lack of cover on the Western Terrace is itself a factor that is costing Leeds significant amounts in terms of unsold tickets, then there's a business case for it. But I doubt that what evidence there is shows that it's enough of a loss to justify the cost - particuarly given that those unsold tickets are from supporters that offer the least value to the club. 

Not to add a basic roof it wouldn't - see Belle Vue as an example of how this can be done without all of the scrutinies above and relatively cheap to boot. Also, the reason it hasn't been redeveloped is nothing to do with cost benefit analysis - if they could have they would have is the reality. 

Regarding your second paragraph, I get all that and would refer you to my earlier sentiments in another post - 'If we’re saying Leeds don’t care about away fans then fair enough but Leeds fans can’t get all offended when the wider RL fan base completely disagrees that Headingley is one of the best stadiums in the league, because from their perspective it really isn’t.' 

[Leyther_Matt]

2 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

You just answered your own question.

 

My brother is a part-time Wigan fan, and he was stood in the new South Stand last Friday too.

And your brother didn't buy his tickets through his own club. Yes, away fans are free to buy through Leeds if they want, but the allocated area for away fans is the Western Terrace, I don't even see what is up for debate on that front.

As someone pointed out earlier, the relevant authorities would be having kittens if 2,000 opposition fans decided to pitch up in the South Stand en masse.

NB - when I say a handful of North Stand tickets, there has never been more than 30 tickets given to an away club and even that doesn't seem to be happening since the rebuild.

[Chrispmartha]

15 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Not to add a basic roof it wouldn't - see Belle Vue as an example of how this can be done without all of the scrutinies above and relatively cheap to boot. Also, the reason it hasn't been redeveloped is nothing to do with cost benefit analysis - if they could have they would have is the reality. 

Regarding your second paragraph, I get all that and would refer you to my earlier sentiments in another post - 'If we’re saying Leeds don’t care about away fans then fair enough but Leeds fans can’t get all offended when the wider RL fan base completely disagrees that Headingley is one of the best stadiums in the league, because from their perspective it really isn’t.' 

If they could just stick a roof on it they would have, there's no way they would get planning permission because of the houses directly behind it, isn't that the main issue?.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

45 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

If they could just stick a roof on it they would have, there's no way they would get planning permission because of the houses directly behind it, isn't that the main issue?.

I doubt the issue is planning permission. As long as it didn't encroach on the public footpath that runs behind the stand and isn't too high then what would be the real objections? It's hardly blocking the view from the houses behind - there's already trees, a big screen and scoreboard that's much higher than the retaining wall at the back of the stand anyway. 

[whatmichaelsays]

15 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I doubt the issue is planning permission. As long as it didn't encroach on the public footpath that runs behind the stand and isn't too high then what would be the real objections? It's hardly blocking the view from the houses behind - there's already trees, a big screen and scoreboard that's much higher than the retaining wall at the back of the stand anyway. 

The big screen had to be moved when Leeds installed a permanent screen precisely because it would have infringed on the right to light of the properties behind it. 

[East of the Moon]

Could the reason there is no cover on the Western terrace is precisely the weather, another structure would virtually block out the natural elements on all sides, which would be far from ideal for natural grass growing on the pitch?

[Leyther_Matt]

6 minutes ago, East of the Moon said:

Could the reason there is no cover on the Western terrace is precisely the weather, another structure would virtually block out the natural elements on all sides, which would be far from ideal for natural grass growing on the pitch?

Pretty sure Leeds have already got 'grow lights' as tends to be used on the better pitches these days.

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, East of the Moon said:

Could the reason there is no cover on the Western terrace is precisely the weather, another structure would virtually block out the natural elements on all sides, which would be far from ideal for natural grass growing on the pitch?

I watched a video on the returfing that has just taken place and apparently the new south stand is affecting the grass and soil massively on that sides touchline as it is significantly taller than previously.

[whatmichaelsays]

33 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Pretty sure Leeds have already got 'grow lights' as tends to be used on the better pitches these days.

Indeed, courtesy of the local constabulary. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-31060742

[East of the Moon]

If things weren't bad enough on the pitch now we're growing cannabis ffs...

[OMEGA]

49 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The big screen had to be moved when Leeds installed a permanent screen precisely because it would have infringed on the right to light of the properties behind it. 

As I’ve just found out at my own home, there is no such rule or law as a “right to light”. 

I suspect Leeds want to properly develop the West stand along similar lines to the rest of the stadium albeit on a smaller scale. Until they can do that they won’t throw money away on something token and temporary.