rlno1 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Bennett helped NZ win the 2008 World Cup with an Aussie half, Nathan Fien, I think it's his blueprint for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, deluded pom? said: They already do. NSW and Queensland. Yes but generally do not tour as that and not in world cups. And Australia is split into States and have PMs and parliaments. Even the USA have 50 states with individual congresses and governors... And do not have "home nations" or "states of origins". I do take the point where others support or identify with England first then GB. I just am British (about 1 million British died in 2 wars for my country, 'right or wrong'). But we have just cheered on England in cricket. Its captain was born in Dublin. We have had Scottish and Welsh captains. Go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: Yes but generally do not tour as that and not in world cups. And Australia is split into States and have PMs and parliaments. Even the USA have 50 states with individual congresses and governors... And do not have "home nations" or "states of origins". I do take the point where others support or identify with England first then GB. I just am British (about 1 million British died in 2 wars for my country, 'right or wrong'). But we have just cheered on England in cricket. Its captain was born in Dublin. We have had Scottish and Welsh captains. Go figure its a funny old thing the England/GB thing for sport.. some of it is the fact you were representing the "board" hence the england football kit has the blue shorts as white and navy are the "FA Colours" IIRC. also some sports it was the way international started with the home nations so playing as GB would have meant no real opposition.. it would make for an interesting book/article on the formation of the sports at international level and why they are what they are.. the likes of Ice Hockey going for GB instead of England being about the Olympics and spread of talent across the home nations (I would guess).. RL going to GB from England because of the increase in people crossing from RU from Wales and the odd one from Scotland and giving them some international RL... then back again. Why one is England and the other is GB will have many different reasons, Olympics, time of international formation etc i'm probably quite sad but I would find it interesting across all sorts of sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, RP London said: its a funny old thing the England/GB thing for sport.. some of it is the fact you were representing the "board" hence the england football kit has the blue shorts as white and navy are the "FA Colours" IIRC. also some sports it was the way international started with the home nations so playing as GB would have meant no real opposition.. it would make for an interesting book/article on the formation of the sports at international level and why they are what they are.. the likes of Ice Hockey going for GB instead of England being about the Olympics and spread of talent across the home nations (I would guess).. RL going to GB from England because of the increase in people crossing from RU from Wales and the odd one from Scotland and giving them some international RL... then back again. Why one is England and the other is GB will have many different reasons, Olympics, time of international formation etc i'm probably quite sad but I would find it interesting across all sorts of sports. If we were to be in a sort of time warp and a modern Billy Boston at aged 18 signed for Wigan, then I do not see how he could play for England whereas he did that for GB in 1950 after just 8 professional games. Our present position is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: If we were to be in a sort of time warp and a modern Billy Boston at aged 18 signed for Wigan, then I do not see how he could play for England whereas he did that for GB in 1950 after just 8 professional games. Our present position is absurd. I dont disagree, however, put that in to today and there is no-one pushing to be in the England side from the other home nations really.. anyone mentioned is more of a "they could" than "they should"... the likes of Regan Grace playing for Wales and having a Welsh team is arguably doing more for Welsh Rugby than no Welsh player playing for GB and there being no Welsh side... as i say its arguable.. i am not sure which is right and which is wrong... either way whatever we do has to be done with 100% effort and intensity and IMHO that is the biggest issue at the moment. choses something, stick with it and drive it hard.. this GB tour could be awful (i will support it but i am very worried about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 This is one a get together squad; I don't think Austin would make an actual international series squad. He's not as good as Lomax and Widdop; potentially even Williams who has done well in an England shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, rlno1 said: Bennett helped NZ win the 2008 World Cup with an Aussie half, Nathan Fien, I think it's his blueprint for success. Didn't it turn out that Fien's heritage claim was bullcrap "Grannygate" https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/grannygate-nz-league-boss-falls-on-sword-20061104-gdor2a.html Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: This is one a get together squad; I don't think Austin would make an actual international series squad. He's not as good as Lomax and Widdop; potentially even Williams who has done well in an England shirt. Why is he currently the top Man of Steel contender then? Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Allora said: Didn't it turn out that Fien's heritage claim was bullcrap "Grannygate" https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/grannygate-nz-league-boss-falls-on-sword-20061104-gdor2a.html Yes it was, but by the time the 2008 World Cup came around he had qualified through residency so able to play in the comp. (not saying it is right or wrong, just relaying the facts) "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Allora said: Why is he currently the top Man of Steel contender then? oh Jeez, you've done it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Yes it was, but by the time the 2008 World Cup came around he had qualified through residency so able to play in the comp. (not saying it is right or wrong, just relaying the facts) Why did people resign over what happened then and New Zealand were deducted points? New Zealand Rugby League executive chairman Selwyn Bennett has resigned over the Nathan Fien "grannygate" debacle. Bennett told AAP of his decision after the Kiwis were stripped of their only two Tri-Nations competition points yesterday and forced to drop Fien from their squad. The Kiwis had initially claimed Australian-born Fien's grandmother was born in New Zealand, which would have allowed him to switch allegiances, but it was later revealed the birth certificate he provided belonged to his great-grandmother. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, Allora said: Why is he currently the top Man of Steel contender then? 3 x reasons IMO: 1. The way the points system works. 2. His ability to dominate against teams with poor defensive structures. 3. Less eye-catching performances from his other team mates when Wire have won. Lomax is the best SO this year. Quality every game. Shares the headlines with more players like Coote, Roby, Fages, Walmsley, Thompson et al but has consistently outplayed his opposite number (including Austin twice) in practically every game so far this year. A major reason why Saints are miles ahead of the pack this season. There’s no doubting Austin is a good player; excellent player in fact. But he’s not our best option at SO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerner80 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: This is one a get together squad; I don't think Austin would make an actual international series squad. He's not as good as Lomax and Widdop; potentially even Williams who has done well in an England shirt. I agree, imo he would not make the match day 17 with those 3 fit and Luke Gale too. Trueman given a bit longer must be coming into consideration too, and Abdull could be worth a look too. Then theres Sneyd too. Austin so far to me looks a very good player but has a touch of flat track bully about him. Yet to see him pull a game out of the fire so to speak. Still given injuries are prevalent in our sport and form it's not a bad thing to have him in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, Allora said: Why did people resign over what happened then and New Zealand were deducted points? New Zealand Rugby League executive chairman Selwyn Bennett has resigned over the Nathan Fien "grannygate" debacle. Bennett told AAP of his decision after the Kiwis were stripped of their only two Tri-Nations competition points yesterday and forced to drop Fien from their squad. The Kiwis had initially claimed Australian-born Fien's grandmother was born in New Zealand, which would have allowed him to switch allegiances, but it was later revealed the birth certificate he provided belonged to his great-grandmother. They resigned because Fien was ineligible and had presented his (New Zealand) great grandmothers birth certificate rather than his grandmothers. New Zealand had their Tri Nations points deducted in 2006 because of this. But the initial point was about the 2008 World Cup which New Zealand won with Fien back in the side because he had qualified on residency grounds by then. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, Dunbar said: They resigned because Fien was ineligible and had presented his (New Zealand) great grandmothers birth certificate rather than his grandmothers. New Zealand had their Tri Nations points deducted in 2006 because of this. But the initial point was about the 2008 World Cup which New Zealand won with Fien back in the side because he had qualified on residency grounds by then. Fair enough. I misunderstood what you were saying. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: 3 x reasons IMO: 1. The way the points system works. 2. His ability to dominate against teams with poor defensive structures. 3. Less eye-catching performances from his other team mates when Wire have won. Lomax is the best SO this year. Quality every game. Shares the headlines with more players like Coote, Roby, Fages, Walmsley, Thompson et al but has consistently outplayed his opposite number (including Austin twice) in practically every game so far this year. There’s no doubting Austin is a good player. But he’s not our best option at SO. Yes all fair enough... But. How well would Hastings be at in the Saints team. Conversly how difficult would it be for Hasings to look good if Salford were regularly missing say 6 forwards most of the season. (eg. Wigan are likely to have 3 acadamey players in tbeir pack this week). How does a player shine of in a relatively poor team? There should be other objective criteria to judge a players merits. I might add that the choir always sings well when I am not in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Southerner80 said: I agree, imo he would not make the match day 17 with those 3 fit and Luke Gale too. Trueman given a bit longer must be coming into consideration too, and Abdull could be worth a look too. Then theres Sneyd too. Austin so far to me looks a very good player but has a touch of flat track bully about him. Yet to see him pull a game out of the fire so to speak. Still given injuries are prevalent in our sport and form it's not a bad thing to have him in the mix. Yes. My selection would have someone in who can be relied on to put in really good kicks (of whatever type... But principally deep to the corners) on 5th tackle. As an example of not good kicks was Tomkins in NZ series. He was there because of injuries and I think filled in well (we won 2 games), but kicks were average. So for me, that is an important choice when selecting 6 and 7. It is of course a balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 46 minutes ago, Allora said: Why is he currently the top Man of Steel contender then? In 2012 Ben Barba was the Dally M player of the year but when the kangaroo games came around they picked Billy Slater. The Dally M and Man of Steel awards are partly down to form but you always pick your best side for representative games. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 16 hours ago, roughyedspud said: FFS sport England funding has sod all to do with anything..never has.. And England have a performance squad because it's good to get them all together and we have a world 9s to prep for And it is part of the Sport England funding programme, hence why it used to be at St George's Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughyedspud Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Scubby said: And it is part of the Sport England funding programme, hence why it used to be at St George's Park. It was at St George's park cos it is a world class facility...and Wayne Bennett decided not to use it OLDHAM RLFC the 8TH most successful team in british RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 14 hours ago, Dunbar said: In 2012 Ben Barba was the Dally M player of the year but when the kangaroo games came around they picked Billy Slater. The Dally M and Man of Steel awards are partly down to form but you always pick your best side for representative games. Australia does not discard proven long term incumbents from the Test team based on another players one off season. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlno1 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Allora said: Didn't it turn out that Fien's heritage claim was bullcrap "Grannygate" https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/grannygate-nz-league-boss-falls-on-sword-20061104-gdor2a.html Yes it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Couldn't be bothered reading all the thread it does not interest me that much, but I cannot help fast forwarding in my thoughts to the WC in '21 and considering we may have Coote, Austin and Hastings in our National team, yipee how 'king dreary, I would take no pleasure whatsoever if we were victorious in that comp if we have to stoop so low to employ these people to represent us, the message we would be sending out loud and clear would be "We cannot produce player's on our shores good enough to represent their country" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I don't mind selecting those not born here to play for GB. Aussies pick Pacific islanders and Kiwis all the time. What I do mind is players only putting themselves up for GB selection of they feel they're Origin/Kangaroos/Kiwi chances have gone. They're not choosing us because they're the cream of the crop. We're next best. For developing nations ie Scotland or Italy its fair enough, we need those players to make a competitive team. For England however its silly. This imo is why we need a regular continental and global u20s/u21s tournament where players can test the waters and national governing bodies can see if they like the look of a player at a young age. For instance Callum Mclelland at Leeds was in the England RL academy but played u20s RU for Scotland. As it happened his RU career didn't transpire but the possibility of him playing u20s/21s for either England or Scotland should be at least available to him in League! Point being, players, if they want to commit to a national team, need to commit early and stick with it (although there could be a post 30 clause so we don't strangle some smaller teams). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I can understand people not wanting overseas players representing England, each to their own and people will have their own tolerance levels on this kind of thing. What we should be careful of though is overstating what people will 'think of us'. A sport like RU, which is bigger than RL in England, with a pretty big International game has seen Henry Paul, Lesley Vainokolo, Denny Solomona play for England, and they still have a handful of overseas born players. People generally aren't that bothered, they get that this is modern sport. I don't think we should cut off our nose to spite our face. I am happy with a principle of needing some form of commitment from players, but that has to be down to the managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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