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Just now, Dave T said:

That isn't what this exercise is doing mate. 

The prices I quoted were cheapest standard matchday adult tickets. i.e. you don't need to be a season ticket holder, but you can attend these sports for a relatively similar price to a standard Super League game. 

Thats fine, but as a general rule, you aren't going to get a 'standard match day adult ticket' at United. You need to be a member for starters, as tickets only ever go on open sale to non-members once in a blue moon (ie League Cup early rounds etc), whereas I believe the prices quoted on there are non member prices. 

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3 hours ago, Cardypaul said:

I think there is scope to do what Leeds United did and price according to their opponents normal prices for big draws and charge less money for less attractive opponents 

Most football clubs grade games a, b & c and prices are done accordingly. Perhaps rl should do the same. 

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25 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I enjoy watching the games but typically the whole experience outside of the actual game  can be dreadful... starting from parking (within reasonable distance of walking especially for not so healthy) and travel, amenities and food, etc etc... I may be in a minority but other entertainment is less painful to attend and watch.

i.e. not just pricing

Parking near any football ground is generally pretty bad anyway. 

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1 minute ago, kev p said:

Most football clubs grade games a, b & c and prices are done accordingly. Perhaps rl should do the same. 

Super League RL clubs only host 15ish home competitive games a season though which limits the ability for price variation.

Its also hard to do this in terms of Home and Away fans:

Should there be a cap on away ticket prices across the league? Is twenty plenty?

How do you class teams as a or b grade? Hull KR for example are hardly worthy of an A grading (recently promoted not made playoffs in god knows) yet travel very well. 

I just don't think we offer enough to really do this justice aside from it looking like making Catalans and London dirt cheap.

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30 minutes ago, philipw said:

Thats fine, but as a general rule, you aren't going to get a 'standard match day adult ticket' at United. You need to be a member for starters, as tickets only ever go on open sale to non-members once in a blue moon (ie League Cup early rounds etc), whereas I believe the prices quoted on there are non member prices. 

It is all getting too bogged down with the detail - it is about the relatively similar price point. The point is that we compete with a large number of football teams in the North of England, all play a huge number of games, there are tickets available for plenty of games throughout the year at various clubs at various levels - the majority bigger than our biggest Super League clubs. 

There is a perception that football is really expensive, when that generally isn't the case with our local teams. Modest membership schemes give you access to purchase tickets. Not saying it is easy, just like the Darts events will sell out, but they are normal people buying them. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is all getting too bogged down with the detail - it is about the relatively similar price point. The point is that we compete with a large number of football teams in the North of England, all play a huge number of games, there are tickets available for plenty of games throughout the year at various clubs at various levels - the majority bigger than our biggest Super League clubs. 

There is a perception that football is really expensive, when that generally isn't the case with our local teams. Modest membership schemes give you access to purchase tickets. Not saying it is easy, just like the Darts events will sell out, but they are normal people buying them. 

Completely agree - the perception is that football is extremely expensive, and RL similarly cheap, but that is not borne out by the reality.  

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2 minutes ago, philipw said:

Completely agree - the perception is that football is extremely expensive, and RL similarly cheap, but that is not borne out by the reality.  

For one off fixtures they're comparable. For a seasons worth of support even with a trip to Toronto or Catalans though RL doesn't come close.

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

For one off fixtures they're comparable. For a seasons worth of support even with a trip to Toronto or Catalans though RL doesn't come close.

And I think that's where the pure numbers come into play. When many clubs have waiting lists for season tickets, the prices can obviously be hiked beyond what we will see in RL, and these fans will pay for games with little appeal so that they can get to the big games. We just don't have anything like that level of demand in RL. 

But then I think this is where the discussion becomes far more complex. The football fans have become fans knowing that there are dozens of games to attend and fork out for, maybe some European trips, or overnight UK trips and have bought into that. In RL the fans have been brought up on pretty much every game being within 2 hours, most within an hour of their home, it is a much lower level of investment. But we have seen that we get good followings in Perpignan, and things like the Sydney and Barcelona initiatives see people prepared to spend money to follow their team in RL. 

Shifting the demographic to get more of these people who are staunch fans who will go whenever and wherever the game is played, and however much it costs, is important.

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4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Thanks for clearing that up Gubrats, I had no idea, terrible deal for the clubs. 

Not that straightforward. The old and often misunderstood issues surrounding ground ownership v ground leasing.  

Four legs good - two legs bad

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5 hours ago, Eddie said:

A bit undoubtedly, but agree not a great deal. 

I assume clubs make money from refreshment sales though, why wouldn’t they be able to make a profit on that?

in Leeds case the Burger vans and fish and chip ones ect they just take a site fee for them so its all profit in the end and I can tell you the fee is big enough to be a good way to do it.  the hospitality and bars are run by Sodexo who are on a percentage of the profit so have every reason to push sales and indeed they and Leeds signed a multii million 15 year deal only a couple of months ago that also involved Sodexo sponsoring both Leeds and Yorkshire cricket.

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

A few comparable prices. Cheapest Adult Prices:

Lancs T20 - £12

Lancs County Championship - £10

Man City Prem League - £24

Man Utd Prem League - £36

Sheff Utd Prem League - £29

Prem League Darts - £23

Athletics Grand Prix - £25

For Football cup games ticket prices are generally much cheaper. We have a lot of competition, people can get top class sport for prices not dis-similar to what we pay. Now that is fine generally, as personally I'd rather watch a standard SL game for £24 than a Man City game - but I am in the minority. 

I'm not saying we need to reduce our prices, but I think we need to be aware of how the world around us is changing. I would be looking at a wider spread of ticket prices, starting cheaper and with more premium experiences available. 

Worth adding:

Belle Vue (Manchester) Premiership Speedway - £18

Sale Sharks Premiership Rugby Union - £22

 

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It is hard to judge ticket prices, especially for season tickets - If you charge too much you won't have people buying them, but charge too little, and then even if people do buy one, then they can easily say "I don't really fancy this game, my ticket was cheap anyway, so I won't go".

I recently took a couple of people along to a Broncos game, and one commented on £23 being quite expensive, and the other said it was cheap.

Hard to find the middle ground!

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People talking about differing matchday experiences - remember you cant get a pint within spitting distance of a stadium when football is on unlike rugby (and most of those other sports). My over riding memory of the 1 time i was in a hospitality box for football was being told to tip our beer into coffee cups 15 mins pre kickoff so we couldnt be seen to have any alcohol.

What a palava

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2 hours ago, kev p said:

Parking near any football ground is generally pretty bad anyway. 

yep, agree but generally they start from a much higher demand threshold which normally means overlook this aspect. Never-the-less they could do better if needed too with park and ride type schemes....

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2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Super League RL clubs only host 15ish home competitive games a season though which limits the ability for price variation.

Its also hard to do this in terms of Home and Away fans:

Should there be a cap on away ticket prices across the league? Is twenty plenty?

How do you class teams as a or b grade? Hull KR for example are hardly worthy of an A grading (recently promoted not made playoffs in god knows) yet travel very well. 

I just don't think we offer enough to really do this justice aside from it looking like making Catalans and London dirt cheap.

Saints do a ABC type grading.. for corporate....

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1 hour ago, paul hicks said:

in Leeds case the Burger vans and fish and chip ones ect they just take a site fee for them so its all profit in the end and I can tell you the fee is big enough to be a good way to do it.  the hospitality and bars are run by Sodexo who are on a percentage of the profit so have every reason to push sales and indeed they and Leeds signed a multii million 15 year deal only a couple of months ago that also involved Sodexo sponsoring both Leeds and Yorkshire cricket.

 

Interesting thing about Leeds is they have a multitude of hospitality options... to suit various different "pockets". For non hospitality the options on food inside stadium - not so good but no worse then anywhere else - but then lots of choice nearby for eating and bars... assuming not including for fans travelling with the away club coaches as then its down to the inside stadium choice...

Mind you on busy match days even in the new stadium the queues can be long - well they are in the north stand. The one thing I can't understand how that hiccup happened...

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Of course this is overlooking the fact that clubs nowadays prefer to take 80% and upwards of their ticket revenue upfront in season tickets. This is the opposite of pre SL days when cash was king (in various ways) and varied competitions meant spectators picked and chose their games a little more and cup games outweighed all but the biggest league games. The walk ups for some games were outstanding. The move away from cash and the necessity to pre purchase tickets has made the on-day walk up a thing of the past. It is now difficult to decide "on the day" to attend a match which is a strong detriment to numbers.

The problem (one of) of taking all the money upfront means it leaves little room for manoeuvre with ticket prices during the season. It's a little difficult to charge one group £25.00 per game for having to purchase a whole season of games  and another group £6.00 or £10.00  when, and if, they wish to purchase exactly the same product at a time of their choosing.  The reality of course is that most clubs charge extra for purchasing a ticket on the day further deterring prospective impulse or late purchasers. An unsatisfactory situation for everyone.

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7 hours ago, Dave T said:

A few comparable prices. Cheapest Adult Prices:

Lancs T20 - £12

Lancs County Championship - £10

Man City Prem League - £24

Man Utd Prem League - £36

Sheff Utd Prem League - £29

Prem League Darts - £23

Athletics Grand Prix - £25

For Football cup games ticket prices are generally much cheaper. We have a lot of competition, people can get top class sport for prices not dis-similar to what we pay. Now that is fine generally, as personally I'd rather watch a standard SL game for £24 than a Man City game - but I am in the minority. 

I'm not saying we need to reduce our prices, but I think we need to be aware of how the world around us is changing. I would be looking at a wider spread of ticket prices, starting cheaper and with more premium experiences available. 

I'd be careful with some ofthose comparisons - MU require a membership to purchase for almost all games. City have a strategy of pricing an extremely small amount of tickets low, to give them a good PR number. SL for what I've seen has a more basic pricing structure.

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7 minutes ago, Cowardly Fan said:

I'd be careful with some ofthose comparisons - MU require a membership to purchase for almost all games. City have a strategy of pricing an extremely small amount of tickets low, to give them a good PR number. SL for what I've seen has a more basic pricing structure.

They do, but these are still relevant comparisons. It isnt to say that SL is the same price, but they are in the same ballpark. As a Man City fan I can go online now and get a ticket for £25.50. There will be loads of cheap tickets at the four big NW clubs when it comes to cup comps. 

Ultimately the point is that we charge around £20 to £30 at the lower end, and there is a lot of competition within that price range.

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4 hours ago, redjonn said:

Interesting thing about Leeds is they have a multitude of hospitality options... to suit various different "pockets". For non hospitality the options on food inside stadium - not so good but no worse then anywhere else - but then lots of choice nearby for eating and bars... assuming not including for fans travelling with the away club coaches as then its down to the inside stadium choice...

Mind you on busy match days even in the new stadium the queues can be long - well they are in the north stand. The one thing I can't understand how that hiccup happened...

for those traveling by coach to Headingley there's at least 20 places to eat from restaurants to pizza shops all with less than a 10 min walk and of course at least 3 pubs

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6 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Super League RL clubs only host 15ish home competitive games a season though which limits the ability for price variation.

Its also hard to do this in terms of Home and Away fans:

Should there be a cap on away ticket prices across the league? Is twenty plenty?

How do you class teams as a or b grade? Hull KR for example are hardly worthy of an A grading (recently promoted not made playoffs in god knows) yet travel very well. 

I just don't think we offer enough to really do this justice aside from it looking like making Catalans and London dirt cheap.

Grading games A, B or C is up to the home team. They sell the tickets. Where tickets are easy to sell they are A games, where a small attendance is likely C etc. 

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4 hours ago, redjonn said:

yep, agree but generally they start from a much higher demand threshold which normally means overlook this aspect. Never-the-less they could do better if needed too with park and ride type schemes....

I’ve always found park & ride is ok getting to the ground, they arrive over a few hours. But every one leaves at the same time & waiting ages for buses to return. I went to headingley years ago for a test match & it would have been quicker to walk back to car park. Only alternative would make the area a traffic free zone for a hour after game finishes so buses can get to car park & back quickly. 

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9 hours ago, M j M said:

Price elasticity of demand is a fiendishly more complicated topic than the OP's post. 

I suspect Rugby League has pretty inelastic demand, ie you can bump up or down the prices within reason and the crowd movement won't be proportionate. What seems to annoy fans most is the increase on the previously established price.

 

I would suggest that elasticity of demand is rather more complicated than even that.

Different clubs will have different elasticities. The key starting questions are what is the maximum and what the minimum for each club's attendance? Given ideal form, opponents, weather, loads riding on it, Derby game, etc, etc. How many could they get?

And for the worst case. How many diehards would be there after 15 straight defeats on a wet Thursday night with nowt riding on it against another team in poor form from miles away.

The difference between the two is the elasticity of demand. Assuming they were priced the same.

To measure the price elasticity you would need to repeat the same game under the same conditions with a range of different prices. Impossible. So trial and error is the only way. Basically, experiment with donation only and see what happens. As Swinton and others have done. But, unless you can repeat it, with identical variables, which you can't, you can't know for sure.

 

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