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New York - weeks from approval

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Here's some Irish wisdom.

If you want more potatoes, plant more potatoes! 

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3 hours ago, TheReaper said:

Really?  

From the guidelines:

  • All contributions must be civil and tasteful.
  • No disruptive, offensive or abusive behaviour. Contributions must be constructive and polite, not mean-spirited or contributed with the intention of causing trouble.

Mean spirited

Mean spirited

Someone will have to translate but assuming that's not nice.

Condescending... 

Condescending 

And that's just from your last two posts. There's lots else in there that is certainly not tasteful, and some is so laughably and ignorantly presented that you absolutely must be doing it with the intention of causing trouble. 

 

In fact,  thanks for bringing "the rules" up. I'd call for a mod or admin to warn you about being mean spirited in contradiction of the rules.

 

Exactly, you should have seen the response I got a few days ago. I replied in good faith and what I got in return condescending and borderline abuse, saying I couldn't read etc, which is laughable because I wonder how many degrees he has?  

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3 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Here's some Irish wisdom.

If you want more potatoes, plant more potatoes! 

Geez, we just go to the store and buy some.

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12 hours ago, Manxmanc said:

Fancy clubbing together?

they're selling them for £10 at the moment.. get his address and i'll send him one myself!

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14 hours ago, The Parksider said:

None of that will produce a single pro player and you should know that. For others let me explain.....

In Leeds the Rhinos despite being a big club for over a century struggle to compete with Union for kids playing the game. Rugby Union has a near monopoly on kids playing Rugby union in Toronto, and a big network of coaches and facilities. Given TWPhonies appeal to the adult beer crowd I don’t see them ever making any headway against the Rugby Union clubs. They know this hence they don’t bother.

It’s easy to list all the Toronto union clubs running junior Union projects, but even they struggle against Canadian sports and certainly soccer where there is a massive take up by Canadian kids. What chance has the foreign sport of RL attracting young quality players? None really.

To develop youngsters into professionals Leeds needs to get the game played in schools as much as they can, as I say a lot of schools stick with union. Those who love the game at school have a choice of 30 clubs to play junior RL at outside school, some of the big names are Oulton, Stanningley, Hunslet Parkside, Hunslet Warrios, Milford and Easts.

From that player pool Leeds can try to stock an academy and develop the best into professionals, but despite hundreds of kids going through the academy the success rate is very low. It’s been quoted as one or two academy kids per one hundred manage to get through to first team. Even then they may not last like Jordan Lilley and Ash Golding.

Look at the way Leeds have to chase Australians and buy other clubs stars all the time. It shows you that the player pool here isn’t enough to stock our SL clubs with English talent, we have to go cap in hand to Australia. It’s just a fact that Canada won’t ever develop a player production system based on youngsters.

It's still grassroots growth, whether it produces pros or not. Now take Leeds as your example. How many kids play rugby league in Leeds and the surrounding areas, I'm guessing it's in the thousands, and how many of them will become pros? At best your looking at 1-2%. Now these Canadian grassroots clubs probably won't produce professional players but if they weren't there then they chance of a professional grade player coming from Canada is zero.

So I hope we can both agree that neither Canada or USA have a strong grassroot with professional pathways at the moment. So how do you resolve this? USARL have an agreement were they send players to Australia to play and train with Australian teams. The CRL doesn't have these agreements and the distance means Toronto can't really run a reserve grade team so getting these players means growing the community game. Which requires getting kids interested in playing. I would hope that they are starting to target schools, the creation and sponsoring of the high school challenge cup is a good sign of this, and within a few years a good inter school competition within the Toronto area will hopefully be running.

As they say from small acorns grow great oak trees and hopefully this is the start of something whether it produces professional grade players or a strong community game it would be a big improvement over what was there

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8 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Geez, we just go to the store and buy some.

I've spent half an hour wondering whether i should explain the plant more potatoes line, or just leave it out there. 

I've always found it comical that rugby league people bemoan the lack of quality players available to super league clubs but don't connect the dots and realise that if you want more at the top end, you have to ensure you're putting more in the system at the bottom end, because players grow up and retire.

Of course you can always buy more potatoes at the store, providing someone somewhere is planting them to stock the shelves with.

Now no one club in particular has to introduce kids to rugby league but as custodians of the whole game, (the RFL) we should accept the responsibility of ensuring that increasing numbers of children are being introduced to the game each year, or face the perennial dearth of talent we all grumble and worry about these days.

The Australians know this.

When I was there in the 80's they had over 400 grade 4 coaches (their highest qualification) in Sydney, coaching under 10's.

As far as I can see, no-one in the UK except Newcastle, is actually grasping the nettle on this issue.

 

 

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Great, it's become the Parky Show again.

He condescends, patronises, insults, trolls and then plays the victim when someone bites. Just ignore him. I don't even read his posts nowadays because it's the same waffle, not backed up by any sort of evidence but presented as fact. He has his followers, who also cannot understand the need to back opinions up with fact and just desperately like the idea of his anti-expansionist views - "Yey, someone who agrees with me!"

Seriously, save yourself the time. Don't bite. Don't engage. The threads look a lot better and stick to the point then. He won't ever learn. He hasn't in over 10 years of posting on here.

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2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I've spent half an hour wondering whether i should explain the plant more potatoes line, or just leave it out there. 

I've always found it comical that rugby league people bemoan the lack of quality players available to super league clubs but don't connect the dots and realise that if you want more at the top end, you have to ensure you're putting more in the system at the bottom end, because players grow up and retire.

Of course you can always buy more potatoes at the store, providing someone somewhere is planting them to stock the shelves with.

Now no one club in particular has to introduce kids to rugby league but as custodians of the whole game, (the RFL) we should accept the responsibility of ensuring that increasing numbers of children are being introduced to the game each year, or face the perennial dearth of talent we all grumble and worry about these days.

The Australians know this.

When I was there in the 80's they had over 400 grade 4 coaches (their highest qualification) in Sydney, coaching under 10's.

As far as I can see, no-one in the UK except Newcastle, is actually grasping the nettle on this issue.

 

 

I know what you mean. My remark was partly a flippant throwaway one meant to be funny but there's also truth in it. TWP doesn't care where their potatoes come from - they just buy what they need. It's only when they have reached a sustainable level that they can seriously start investing in growing their own.

I would suggest that is when they have been in SL for a few years and there is at least one other NAM team with them. Then they can seriously turn their attention to growing their own potatoes because without a market what's the point?

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On 30/10/2019 at 19:56, Man of Kent said:

London show players can be developed in new areas with money & effort but it takes a long time. Recent interviews with key Toronto personnel suggest they think too long, so will be they be even assed to try beyond the ‘putting balls in kids’ hands’ photo spin?

Everything's a spin with TWPhonies. I Was looking at a list of signings other clubs had made for next year, they had all been busy whilst all TWP were doing was bragging about how they are going to go all out for SBW. That followed all the stuff about playing early games across Europe at exotic venues, but that seemed to have died a death as well.

I find New York exciting because they could actually field an all North American side and as small time as the USARL may be having a pro team can only help it get bigger time. Now that is expansion. It would not matter to me if they spent some time building up before being able to compete in the Championship because that's what we expect of up and coming clubs, but as we saw when TWP were chucking what few locals they had aside and chucking the money around they clearly weren't "assed" about growing anything. Their fans were all for that because they just want to win and again were not bothered about real expansion.

The guys a $$Billionaire, it goes against the grain for him to try to grow something from nothing when as usual he's the money to just buy it. Once in SL what you got from McDermott was pretty much an admission he'd see no pro players come through the Canadian game and we had to like that or lump it and that's true for now as there was a signed agreement P & R would happen, but come the new TV deal all that is off, and like it or not we revert to exactly what the SL clubs think of TWP as expressed by McManus as an Australians Anglo/Aussie side based in Manchester dressing up in Canadian Jerseys. Polls show nobody is impressed by this bluff and bluster,

12 hours ago, North but south said:

It's still grassroots growth, whether it produces pros or not. Now take Leeds as your example. How many kids play rugby league in Leeds and the surrounding areas, I'm guessing it's in the thousands, and how many of them will become pros? At best your looking at 1-2%. Now these Canadian grassroots clubs probably won't produce professional players but if they weren't there then they chance of a professional grade player coming from Canada is zero.

So I hope we can both agree that neither Canada or USA have a strong grassroot with professional pathways at the moment.

No we can't agree as your not even listening are you?. The "grassroots" is the usual TWP spin that as always replaces any substance.

The only properly funded and well staffed and successful Rugby development programmes in Toronto are all under the auspices of the Canadian Rugby Union. We had the nonsense about how it just needed "time" to grow Rugby league in a new area and I was told how London were now churning the players out, but the fact is they are not churning them out - I challenged the poster who said this to give me the list and sure it will contain greats like LMS, Clubb, Dixon, McMeakin and a couple of others, but that's not very many after 40 years is it and they were actually playing RL in London long before London Broncos came along in 1980. They don't play organised RL in Canada so again expect NO players to come through at all. As above Think about it - if the SL clubs take the view they don't like TWP but are stuck with them short term why would TWP bother to plan for and invest in future years employing a well staffed RL development programme when first chance SL get they will boot them out.

I called it right two years ago that booting out their home grown players and outspending the Championship by a country mile was not going to go down well despite some people slathering over their long winning run, and claiming them as the future of Rugby league. Those self same people are now chasing me all over a thread that is about New York and is not about TWP. Sorry guys but falling over yourselves to try to discredit me has just ruined what I was hoping to be a real expansion thread. 

Edited by The Parksider
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17 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

LMS, Clubb, Dixon, McMeakin and a couple of others

Skill testing question.  Is that number bigger or smaller than zero?

Work it out with  pencil if you need to.

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18 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Everything's a spin with TWPhonies. I Was looking at a list of signings other clubs had made for next year, they had all been busy whilst all TWP were doing was bragging about how they are going to go all out for SBW. That followed all the stuff about playing early games across Europe at exotic venues, but that seemed to have died a death as well.

I find New York exciting because they could actually field an all North American side and as small time as the USARL may be having a pro team can only help it get bigger time. Now that is expansion. It would not matter to me if they spent some time building up before being able to compete in the Championship because that's what we expect of up and coming clubs, but as we saw when TWP were chucking what few locals they had aside and chucking the money around they clearly weren't "assed" about growing anything. Their fans were all for that because they just want to win and again were not bothered about real expansion.

The guys a $$Billionaire, it goes against the grain for him to try to grow something from nothing when as usual he's the money to just buy it. Once in SL what you got from McDermott was pretty much an admission he'd see no pro players come through the Canadian game and we had to like that or lump it and that's true for now as there was a signed agreement P & R would happen, but come the new TV deal all that is off, and like it or not we revert to exactly what the SL clubs think of TWP as expressed by McManus as an Australians Anglo/Aussie side based in Manchester dressing up in Canadian Jerseys. Polls show nobody is impressed by this bluff and bluster,

I think some people are starting to see through Toronto’s publicity stunts but for New York where is your evidence for being excited about them fielding Americans?

All I’ve read suggests they want to replicate the Toronto model but with an unsuitable stadium that is out of town and too big. Or are you building a straw man to knock down when the time is right? 😉

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I find it funny how Parky is creating a false New York narrative so he can say in future that they haven't met these made up goals.

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I found him...eek...he's closer than we thought....Google it..

 

The Parksider, a 2-bedroom apartment in N. Buffalo

 

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19 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I think some people are starting to see through Toronto’s publicity stunts

Where's your evidence that they are pr stunts? Last time I looked junior development was appearing across Toronto. Anyone who says that those pictures were pr stunts without factual evidence is just trolling. 

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2 hours ago, RobertAM said:

I found him...eek...he's closer than we thought....Google it..

 

The Parksider, a 2-bedroom apartment in N. Buffalo

 

Thats it..he's the creepy guy in the Walden Galleria Mall food court who sits with a coffee and donut muttering to himself

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18 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

Thats it..he's the creepy guy in the Walden Galleria Mall food court who sits with a coffee and donut muttering to himself

You have just described half the guys in the Galleria.

He's probably the one in the flatcap drinking tea while tearing apart a scone.

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28 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

You have just described half the guys in the Galleria.

He's probably the one in the flatcap drinking tea while tearing apart a scone.

Scon..

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7 hours ago, Omott91 said:

Where's your evidence that they are pr stunts? Last time I looked junior development was appearing across Toronto. Anyone who says that those pictures were pr stunts without factual evidence is just trolling. 

Stunts like ‘We are looking at playing on the road in big cities in Europe’ but plumping for Hull KR, or ‘we’d love to sign Sonny Bill Williams’ but ending up with Brad Singleton (possibly). That kind of stuff.

As for junior development, if you could point me towards evidence that TWP is funding the playing of under-18 rugby league (that’s rugby league, not union or touch or tag) in the Toronto area then please do so.

If they are developing a player development pathway beyond a few photo sessions then great. 

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9 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I think some people are starting to see through Toronto’s publicity stunts but for New York where is your evidence for being excited about them fielding Americans? All I’ve read suggests they want to replicate the Toronto model but with an unsuitable stadium that is out of town and too big. Or are you building a straw man to knock down when the time is right? 

Even you as a level headed realist seems to want to make the thread about me? 

I don't know about "some people" - very large SL fan numbers responded to polls about TWP by not seeing what they bring to the game as they now realise there is no Canadian RL and there are no Canadian TV deals and never will be as Union has it all tied up. Nearly all Superleague bosses back McManus and his analysis that TWP are just a Manchester based  Anglo/Aussie club who fly out every two weeks to pretend RL is taking off in Canada.

So don't you see that if SL bosses and fans don't want this nonsense, but have had to accept TWP as part of the RFL/SL split deal, that does NOT apply to New York or Ottawa. These clubs will be blocked from entry to Superleague unless they change the business model.

How are SL bosses and SL fans going to wave another phoney set up through, and relegate yet another proper English club for that  when they didn't want TWP? How are rich New Yorkers going to spend $$Milions with no guarantee of getting into Superleague. Don't make the thread about me that's how TWP apologists avoid the hard questions.

It's true that I logically assume New York must develop the game in the USA or they won't ever be accepted by Superleague. You know the key point is expansion and as Perez agreed with the game here that is more quality professional players and more TV contracts. It's therefore essential that New York go into the Championship with as big an American contingent as they can, and despite the condemnation of the USA world cup players, I just do not buy the idea that if they professionalised and trained daily on muscle and skill they still could not give part time Championship clubs a real run for their money.

Sure...maybe I am naive to imagine that USARL will ever grow large enough to in time throw up SL quality USA players, but cut me some slack, I too dream of the game expanding, but when it comes to TWP I haven't seen any "expansion" project be as see through as TWP, it's been obvious from the start that Perez is 100% hot air, when he talked about Transatlantic leagues, multi-million NATV deals, mass conversions of Grid iron players to RL, Chinese athletes taking up RL and the like. What Baloney!!

But he never talked about the Canadian grass roots taking off did he - how could he after a six year failed stint at trying to revive it in the face of ever growing Canadian RU.  And now we see as you say McDermott coming out to dismiss the idea of Canadian SL players in his lifetime. Taking a few pictures of some tots in Rugby jerseys with a rugby ball in hand and calling that development  is as you point out nothing but another stunt - just like the "we are going to sign SBW and play all over Europe" stuff. 

I can't seem to find news of TWP actually signing anyone to date? Have I missed something MOK?? Or is the next fantasy SBW winning the Grand Final for TWP on his own? 

Edited by The Parksider
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15 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

that's how TWP apologists avoid the hard questions.

Just give me a list of your ten hardest questions Parky, try to avoid writing a thesis and I'll respond with straight answers.

I think some of them may have been answered but if you provide the list I promise I'll set to it.

Just a list .....

The Ten most avoided .....

and the most challenging please?

Oh and as with this post it won't be about you then either.

Edited by Oxford
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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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7 hours ago, RobertAM said:

Thats it..he's the creepy guy in the Walden Galleria Mall food court who sits with a coffee and donut muttering to himself

 

7 hours ago, TIWIT said:

You have just described half the guys in the Galleria.

No he just described half of Britain

"And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow"

 

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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

in the face of ever growing Canadian RU. 

You're really exposing your ignorance of the situation here. RC's registered members are declining. Not that it actually matters when it comes to RL.

For 2017 (the most recent year RC has a report posted for) has total registrants just under 30,000. Of that, 13,355 were U19. link

The population of Canada for 2017 up to 19 years of age was 8,002,039. link

 

I'll even do the math for you on this one. That is 0.167%.

 

Do you really think one-sixth of one percent is really what's standing in anyone's way?

Edited by TheReaper
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1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

Do you really think one-sixth of one percent is really what's standing in anyone's way?

I didn't realise the tsunami was that huge so from now on I agree with Parky.

Parky where are my questions?

 

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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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Have to say that these trans-Atlantic teams in the short term are raising the profile of the game but in the long term all they are doing is diluting the English game probably at the expense of one of the lower end sl clubs

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sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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