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Man of Kent

Super League overseas club quota & other interesting stuff

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Super League Europe Limited has filed new articles of association (basically a company constitution) with Companies House (see attached) that states Super League cannot be comprised of more than 25% overseas clubs at one time.

The confusing bit is the 25% cap does not apply to "the promotion of existing overseas clubs (ie Catalans, Toronto and Toulouse) to Super League". I would like some clarification on whether that excludes further overseas clubs in Super League if Catalans, Toronto and Toulouse were in Super League.  

It also commits to one-up, one down P&R for a 10-12 team SL. For a 13-14  team SL, it's two-up, two-down with a playoff between second-bottom & second-top. For a 15-16 SL, it's automatic two-up, two-down.

Much of the rest is procedural and sets out what Super League can/cannot do without the RFL's say-so.

SLE filing.pdf

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It does say it doesnt apply to those clubs even if the cap is exceeded so theoretically we could have 6 overseas clubs in a 12 team SL if three were the existing ones.

Though, almost certainly, practically, if we were to get that to that point the size of the league would increase and under the current limit of 16 sides that only goes us to 7.

I'm not sure what, in those changes, caused all that consternation. There doesnt seem to be much at either side that needed so much public slanging. 

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10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It does say it doesnt apply to those clubs even if the cap is exceeded so theoretically we could have 6 overseas clubs in a 12 team SL if three were the existing ones.

I thought that but it's not clear. I read it as the gate is closed to further overseas clubs if Catalans, Toulouse and Toulouse are already in SL but those three could come back in if relegated even if the cap limit of 25% is breached.  

Edited by Man of Kent

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16 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I thought that but it's not clear. I read it as the gate is closed to further overseas clubs if Catalans, Toulouse and Toulouse are already in SL but those three could come back in if relegated even if the cap limit of 25% is breached.  

Hmm, I'm not sure about that.

Doesnt read that way to me, and I'm not sure that is hugely more beneficial if the idea is that SL dont want overseas clubs in. 

You could still theoretically end up with 6 SL clubs in a 12 team league being overseas. 

Perhaps, legally, they found reclassifying the three existing clubs a but worrying so decided to include them with the others.

You would say its telling that there is no mention of what happens if a team wins promotion but would take SL over the 25% mark. Do they expand, relegate one or deny relegation to one?

We could be left in a situation where Toronto and Ottawa are in a relegation play off and  NYC can only be promoted if Toronto win as Toronto arent an overseas club but Ottawa are. 

 

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1 hour ago, Wollongong said:

I assume that post Brexit all non British players will be categorised as ‘overseas’

This is a question I have raised before on other threads. What about the various French players playing in England. And the English in France? Have SL and the RFL even considered this?

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12 minutes ago, dixiedean said:

This is a question I have raised before on other threads. What about the various French players playing in England. And the English in France? Have SL and the RFL even considered this?

Almost any Brexit deal that gets agreed - and most likely even no deal - includes provisions for existing GB citizens in EU and existing EU citizens in GB to fully maintain all the rights they have now, in law. 

If the RFL tried to categorise existing players as 'foreign' they'd be open to a pretty robust legal challenge. 

So for existing players I doubt there'll be any problem. 

What could be an issue is younger French players, who currently have the right to come over and have a season or two in NCL or L1, while working basic jobs.This won't likely be as easy and this is something that is pretty unique to RL. The RFL structure is the preeminent structure in the Northern Hemisphere and need to be able to be open to continental players, as ultimately the UK game be fits from that. 

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This basically means Super League are expanding and the League will be larger than 12 teams come 2021.

It also means that Toronto, Catalans and Toulouse don't count as overseas clubs.  So theoretically, in a 16 team Super League, you could have 7 overseas clubs if the three that don't count are also included.

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3 hours ago, Wollongong said:

I assume that post Brexit all non British players will be categorised as ‘overseas’

Only those that are not in the country at the moment.

I think this is one of the reasons competition has been brought back

1 hour ago, dixiedean said:

This is a question I have raised before on other threads. What about the various French players playing in England. And the English in France? Have SL and the RFL even considered this?

Another team from France in Super League might be the answer

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

Almost any Brexit deal that gets agreed - and most likely even no deal - includes provisions for existing GB citizens in EU and existing EU citizens in GB to fully maintain all the rights they have now, in law. 

If the RFL tried to categorise existing players as 'foreign' they'd be open to a pretty robust legal challenge. 

So for existing players I doubt there'll be any problem. 

What could be an issue is younger French players, who currently have the right to come over and have a season or two in NCL or L1, while working basic jobs.This won't likely be as easy and this is something that is pretty unique to RL. The RFL structure is the preeminent structure in the Northern Hemisphere and need to be able to be open to continental players, as ultimately the UK game be fits from that. 

Again i say certain clubs need to pay more than lip service to junior development.

Hopefully the days of the has been's and never was players coming over from the NRL are coming to a end and ALL clubs take junior development seriously.

It will be interesting to see how Soccer in the UK reacts to the new employment laws when we leave the EU for good.

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Would Ottawa count as an overseas club? Purchasing Hemel Stags' license might suggest they're already part of the system and therefore included in the list of "existing overseas clubs"?

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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It's quite clear.  The three existing overseas clubs do not count in the 25% number.  Guaranteed next season will be the last season they run a 12 club competition, that guarantees Toronto are not relegated.  The following season, the league will expand to 14 and then 16 teams.

Edited by CanadianRugger
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4 hours ago, nadera78 said:

Would Ottawa count as an overseas club? Purchasing Hemel Stags' license might suggest they're already part of the system and therefore included in the list of "existing overseas clubs"?

SLE defines an ‘overseas club’ as one whose home ground is outside the UK, and ‘existing overseas club’ as one that played in Super League or Championship in 2019, so Ottawa would be an overseas club.

Edited by Man of Kent
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2 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

It's quite clear.  The three existing overseas clubs do not count in the 25% number.  

It’s not clear because the doc states the exemption applies “to the promotion of Existing Overseas Clubs to Super League”.

I’d like to know where that leaves future overseas clubs if the 25% cap is reached.

This is where the likes of League Express need to do some journalism. Over to you, chaps. 

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8 hours ago, dixiedean said:

This is a question I have raised before on other threads. What about the various French players playing in England. And the English in France? Have SL and the RFL even considered this?

I read somewhere, some time back now, it was part of the considerations for the Govt.  

But do any of us really know what Brexit will bring?  The Politicians dont and any great detail is not commonly broadcast.

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6 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Only those that are not in the country at the moment.

I think this is one of the reasons competition has been brought back

Another team from France in Super League might be the answer

Again i say certain clubs need to pay more than lip service to junior development.

Hopefully the days of the has been's and never was players coming over from the NRL are coming to a end and ALL clubs take junior development seriously.

It will be interesting to see how Soccer in the UK reacts to the new employment laws when we leave the EU for good.

Imo this will be just a case of applying for Visas.  Visitors Visa can be applied for fir varying lengths if time.

The 4th para is where we need to leave behind our clubs who will not show commitment to development.  This needs to be set in stone through minimum standards which are audited by external agencies engaged by the RFL but not solely by the RFL or SL.

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

It’s not clear because the doc states the exemption applies “to the promotion of Existing Overseas Clubs to Super League”.

I’d like to know where that leaves future overseas clubs if the 25% cap is reached.

This is where the likes of League Express need to do some journalism. Over to you, chaps. 

The key wording in the document is 'unless otherwise determined by the board'......therefor 25% is a preferred limit, it's not a definite barrier, set in stone. 

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28 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

The key wording in the document is 'unless otherwise determined by the board'......therefor 25% is a preferred limit, it's not a definite barrier, set in stone. 

Damn , you just beat me to that one , yes it is at the discretion of the board , so basically we are none the wiser 

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Imo this will be just a case of applying for Visas.  Visitors Visa can be applied for fir varying lengths if time.

The 4th para is where we need to leave behind our clubs who will not show commitment to development.  This needs to be set in stone through minimum standards which are audited by external agencies engaged by the RFL but not solely by the RFL or SL.

If they clubs aren't committed to junior development they shouldn't have a place in Super League. Its ridiculous that some clubs have been going for well over 100 years and still struggle with junior development.

Clubs in the M62 corridor have no excuse for not having academies and reserves.

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3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

If they clubs aren't committed to junior development they shouldn't have a place in Super League. Its ridiculous that some clubs have been going for well over 100 years and still struggle with junior development.

Clubs in the M62 corridor have no excuse for not having academies and reserves.

" Still struggle with junior development " suggests that these clubs have never ever produced players ? , But that isn't true , which clubs are you referring to ?

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13 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Almost any Brexit deal that gets agreed - and most likely even no deal - includes provisions for existing GB citizens in EU and existing EU citizens in GB to fully maintain all the rights they have now, in law. 

If the RFL tried to categorise existing players as 'foreign' they'd be open to a pretty robust legal challenge. 

So for existing players I doubt there'll be any problem. 

What could be an issue is younger French players, who currently have the right to come over and have a season or two in NCL or L1, while working basic jobs.This won't likely be as easy and this is something that is pretty unique to RL. The RFL structure is the preeminent structure in the Northern Hemisphere and need to be able to be open to continental players, as ultimately the UK game be fits from that. 

I think people are overcomplicating things - it is 'Super League Europe' and players are considered 'Federation Trained' if they were developed in Europe. So regardless of what the migration regime is in the UK, unless the RFL changes it's Rules, British and French players will still be considered to be under the same Federation and as such not 'overseas' players. Visas are highly unlikely to be a big issue for all but the naughtiest blokes. 

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

" Still struggle with junior development " suggests that these clubs have never ever produced players ? , But that isn't true , which clubs are you referring to ?

Whats the excuse from clubs who are over 100 years old for not having academies this past season?

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12 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Whats the excuse from clubs who are over 100 years old for not having academies this past season?

Which clubs ?, That is what I asked you ?

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3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

" Still struggle with junior development " suggests that these clubs have never ever produced players ? , But that isn't true , which clubs are you referring to ?

Salford, Hull FC and Hull KR

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