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RayCee

W Bennet's Replacement

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Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

We failed so much at being an NRL attack that we weren't even an U16s attack. That's my point. We were playing a style that was either so unnatural we couldn't do it; or just incredibly poorly coached.

Whatever style it is, if the halfbacks don’t get the ball they aren’t going to create anything.

Needs more than one-out rugby to break down an ‘NRL’ defence, as Bennett should bloody well know. 

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23 minutes ago, RayCee said:

To play three tests and score one try in each and never reach double figures is totally unacceptable. Anyone can a have an off game but three in a row? That's a pattern. Could another coach have done better? I believe so, but who? 

Another coach would see that there is a problem with the attacking strategy being employed. It was incredibly obvious and only the most stubborn of people would believe there wasn't an issue.

Here's Bennett's record against the big sides:

2019: lost to NZ 23-8; lost to NZ 12-8; lost to Tonga 14-6

2018: lost to NZ 34-0; beat NZ 20-14; beat NZ 18-12; beat NZ 36-18 (Denver)

2017: lost to Aus 6-0; beat Tonga 20-18; lost to Aus 18-4

2016: lost to Aus 18-36; lost to NZ 17-16

Played 12; Won 4; Lost 8.

Of the 4 won, only 1 was by more than one score (a weakened NZ side in Denver).

Of the 12 played, only one we scored more than 20 points (same NZ game).

Six of them we scored 1 try or less (nilled twice).

 

Our attack under Bennett is shocking. Arguably, we didn't exactly score much before, but we don't even create opportunities anymore.

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1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Another coach would see that there is a problem with the attacking strategy being employed. It was incredibly obvious and only the most stubborn of people would believe there wasn't an issue.

Here's Bennett's record against the big sides:

2019: lost to NZ 23-8; lost to NZ 12-8; lost to Tonga 14-6

2018: lost to NZ 34-0; beat NZ 20-14; beat NZ 18-12; beat NZ 36-18 (Denver)

2017: lost to Aus 6-0; beat Tonga 20-18; lost to Aus 18-4

2016: lost to Aus 18-36; lost to NZ 17-16

Played 12; Won 4; Lost 8.

Of the 4 won, only 1 was by more than one score (a weakened NZ side in Denver).

Of the 12 played, only one we scored more than 20 points (same NZ game).

Six of them we scored 1 try or less (nilled twice).

 

Our attack under Bennett is shocking. Arguably, we didn't exactly score much before, but we don't even create opportunities anymore.

Interesting research. I have to agree.


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It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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I'm no huge Bennett fan. As a Broncos fan, I think he took the club backwards in his second stint and has always been prone to questionable selections and player favouritism. He also struggles to come up with good attack in the modern game. However, Bennett's teams are also usually good in defence and resilient under pressure. In both those areas, England have improved considerably - and those scores above show it. So while I think it's time England moves on, I think Bennett has actually given the next coach a lot to build on. Just need someone who'll get selections right and improve their attack a bit. For continuity, I think they should go with Ian Watson - who has had a great impact on players at Salford. The other contender is Daryl Powell, but I think Castleford have gone backwards a little bit and I'm not sure he has enough focus on defence for test football.

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2 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

I'm no huge Bennett fan. As a Broncos fan, I think he took the club backwards in his second stint and has always been prone to questionable selections and player favouritism. He also struggles to come up with good attack in the modern game. However, Bennett's teams are also usually good in defence and resilient under pressure. In both those areas, England have improved considerably - and those scores above show it. So while I think it's time England moves on, I think Bennett has actually given the next coach a lot to build on. Just need someone who'll get selections right and improve their attack a bit. For continuity, I think they should go with Ian Watson - who has had a great impact on players at Salford. The other contender is Daryl Powell, but I think Castleford have gone backwards a little bit and I'm not sure he has enough focus on defence for test football.

Perhaps a combination of the 2 for defence and attack?

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Some GB players couldn't even do the basics like hang on to the ball or even pass the ball properly to team mates. The defence was poor as well. Too many basic mistakes over the the last 3 tests. Perhaps GB just need to have a week of just doing basic things because to me at the moment we are making to many schoolboy errors.

If we had repeatedly keep doing the basic things right from the first set of 6 we would have won at least 2 of the last tests in my opinion, but we must do the basic things properly, but seem incapable of times of doing them.

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The next few weeks are likely to determine how successful the 2021 World Cup is going to be. In order to fill our most ambitious choice of stadiums, it means appealing to people who will never have gone to a Rugby League game before. 

The best way of doing that is winning an exciting test series against Australia with ideally players like Makinson scoring spectacular tries. 

For that to happen, England will need players to play to their potential and play in an attractive manner. They will also need someone who understands what the England shirt means to the players and fans and can communicate that.

Bennett offers none of these things and the international sides under his leadership now resemble the performances produced by the England soccer team under Steve Mclaren, uniformly grim with plenty of mistakes. Jon Dutton must be having nightmares about having to sell tickets to watch a Bennett led England side. Hopefully the RFL will come to a decision, there is no Way{ne} back for England. 

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Clearly there is a problem deeper than the choice of coach. Elsewhere I have provided a long (incomplete) list of famous name GB and England coaches who have been appointed then incurred the. displeasure of the fans for some reason.. like  losing. We fail... Sack the coach. 

What I do find odd is the blame placed on Bennett for the players slavishly following his instructions despite the fact that the forum can see the folly in that course of action. Has he picked players so weak and so compliant and obedient that they cannot break out of Bennett's stranglehold when things are going wrong. 

Surely, history teaches us that changing the coach has never been the key to success for GB or England. 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, flyingking said:

The next few weeks are likely to determine how successful the 2021 World Cup is going to be. In order to fill our most ambitious choice of stadiums, it means appealing to people who will never have gone to a Rugby League game before. 

The best way of doing that is winning an exciting test series against Australia with ideally players like Makinson scoring spectacular tries. 

For that to happen, England will need players to play to their potential and play in an attractive manner. They will also need someone who understands what the England shirt means to the players and fans and can communicate that.

Bennett offers none of these things and the international sides under his leadership now resemble the performances produced by the England soccer team under Steve Mclaren, uniformly grim with plenty of mistakes. Jon Dutton must be having nightmares about having to sell tickets to watch a Bennett led England side. Hopefully the RFL will come to a decision, there is no Way{ne} back for England. 

This is what led the FA to Roy Hodgson 😅

I wonder how the union team beat the All Blacks with an Aussie coach


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1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

This is what led the FA to Roy Hodgson 😅

I wonder how the union team beat the All Blacks with an Aussie coach

You cannot compare other sports to us. We have two leagues in which to pick players from, with the majority being preferred in one of those leagues. Union has at least 4 big leagues, with fair representation usually across them without favouritism. Football has countless ones.


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1 hour ago, JohnM said:

What I do find odd is the blame placed on Bennett for the players slavishly following his instructions despite the fact that the forum can see the folly in that course of action. Has he picked players so weak and so compliant and obedient that they cannot break out of Bennett's stranglehold when things are going wrong.

Evidently, he has.

Have you not noticed how GB’s attacking suddenly improved dramatically around the hour mark in this series?

Dave Woods even commenated at one point yesterday that ‘We should just skip to the last 20 minutes’.

This isn’t a knee-jerk reaction, there’s been a clear pattern in this tour. No creativity until the game is lost, one try per game.

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1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

You cannot compare other sports to us. We have two leagues in which to pick players from, with the majority being preferred in one of those leagues. Union has at least 4 big leagues, with fair representation usually across them without favouritism. Football has countless ones.

Do you really believe we need a coach that makes players understand the meaning of the England jersey, etc.? Really? 


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1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Clearly there is a problem deeper than the choice of coach. Elsewhere I have provided a long (incomplete) list of famous name GB and England coaches who have been appointed then incurred the. displeasure of the fans for some reason.. like  losing. We fail... Sack the coach. 

What I do find odd is the blame placed on Bennett for the players slavishly following his instructions despite the fact that the forum can see the folly in that course of action. Has he picked players so weak and so compliant and obedient that they cannot break out of Bennett's stranglehold when things are going wrong. 

Surely, history teaches us that changing the coach has never been the key to success for GB or England. 

This tour has seen the tactics stuck to throughout, and any reason for loss will end up being "we didn't stick to the tactics" as an excuse. Players don't want to deviate for that reason. The tactics are so clearly uninspiring. I've never seen such dull, drive it up tactics in every game of a tour. This is purely coaching.

For someone to mention is doing the basics wrong: that's a preparation issue. These aren't players that need teaching how to do things - they need preparing to do things.

Is Bennett responding to these things? The results show not. The only reason we might beat PNG is through brute force because that's the only tactic we try.


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4 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Do you really believe we need a coach that makes players understand the meaning of the England jersey, etc.? Really? 

I believe that is one part of a much much bigger picture, yes.

It's not THE part, or THE problem. But it IS important. The jersey - whether England, GB, Hull, or Sydney - IS important and if you don't want to play for it and don't feel it's important, you'll bring the whole team down in this sport.


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3 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I believe that is one part of a much much bigger picture, yes.

It's not THE part, or THE problem. But it IS important. The jersey - whether England, GB, Hull, or Sydney - IS important and if you don't want to play for it and don't feel it's important, you'll bring the whole team down in this sport.

England need a great coach, WB or not.

Players are motivated and you cannot say they were lacking commitment this tour, come on.


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2 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

England need a great coach, WB or not

Perhaps WB was a great coach but he hasn’t won anything for a decade now.

In my view, he’s yesterday’s man fighting yesterday’s battles with all the old cliches about British players being soft or unfit or unable to play the full 80 minutes still in his head.

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

He says "we", doesn't he? 


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23 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

England need a great coach, WB or not.

Players are motivated and you cannot say they were lacking commitment this tour, come on.

I didn't. You've put words in my mouth.


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England need a coach who is actually based in England and working with players for 11 months of the year, in training camps, giving feedback etc, and not just appearing for a few weeks at the end of the season. That coach needs to be watching players on a weekly basis in the competition where the vast majority of players play. He also needs to be in a position to assess and analyse young players coming through.

A coach based in Australia has seen a completely NRL centric approach and an increasing reliance on an aging group of players with a better the devil you know attitude. Bennett has no idea about the younger players coming through to replace these players.

I was all for the appointment of Bennett. He has done some good things, notably shoring up the defence but there are clear signs of us now going backwards. All coaches have a limited timespan when it comes to impact and it now is certainly the time to move on.

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1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I didn't. You've put words in my mouth.

Well, who said we need a coach able to make players understand the jersey, etc.? 


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Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Who didn't say players are lacking commitment?

If they are committed, it means they fully understand the meaning of the England jersey, etc. 


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