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McManus fined £3000

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Just now, Jim Prendle said:

Surely a fine is supposed to be part punishment, and part deterrent? How is this a deterrent?

He should have had the book thrown at him.

So you want fines based upon people’s net worth then? 

Let’s say that West Wales’ chairman does the same next year and his net worth is considerably smaller than McManus’? What are we saying here then? £100 fine? 

 

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The whole thing illustrates what he is as a person, and they are as a club. A retraction and an apology would have been apt. What is of much greater concern is that he achieved what he wanted, with our biggest club night of the year leading to a devalued title.

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4 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

Surely a fine is supposed to be part punishment, and part deterrent? How is this a deterrent?

He should have had the book thrown at him.

So James, should Wigan have had the book thrown at them, Saracens RU style, for their 3rd salary cap breach? 

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4 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

So James, should Wigan have had the book thrown at them, Saracens RU style, for their 3rd salary cap breach? 

Look mate, if you want to continue to defend the buffoon, you carry on, but you will end up looking as stupid as he did.

Bringing Wigan into it, which is the normal last line of defence for a guilty Saint, won’t get you very far.

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8 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

So you want fines based upon people’s net worth then? 

Let’s say that West Wales’ chairman does the same next year and his net worth is considerably smaller than McManus’? What are we saying here then? £100 fine? 

 

Nope, I think he should have been fined at least £50,000, and if that doesn’t teach the West Wales Chairman a lesson, then he also deserves to be fined £50,000.

There aren’t many worse things to do than to publicly call into question the integrity of a match official in the fashion that he did. The fact that he is obviously completely unrepentant would lead me to to recommending a doubling of the fine each week until he finally accepts he has acted like a complete dick, and apologises.

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2 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

Look mate, if you want to continue to defend the buffoon, you carry on, but you will end up looking as stupid as he did.

Bringing Wigan into it, which is the normal last line of defence for a guilty Saint, won’t get you very far.

So, no then? A bitter rival fan is all you’re painting yourself to be.

I’ve not defended McManus. I just questioned why you thought personal net worth should be a barometer for punishment and whether you thought the same when your own club, who flouted the salary cap for the third time, should be hit with a substantial punishment like we’ve seen Saracens get in RU today. You didn’t answer either, so you should grab yourself a bag of scratchings to do with your bitter. 

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On 04/11/2019 at 15:40, whatmichaelsays said:

I would have liked the RFL require him to print / publish a retraction to his comments and to issue an apology to Rob Hicks. 

And before people start with the "but freedom of speech" thing, freedom of speech comes with responsibilities and it doesn't grant you freedom from the consequences of what you say. Pointing out an error is one thing, but his comments went far beyond that. 

Did the fan who gave him death threats retract his statement and fined 3k??

No he got tea and biscuits 

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1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

So, no then? A bitter rival fan is all you’re painting yourself to be.

I’ve not defended McManus. I just questioned why you thought personal net worth should be a barometer for punishment and whether you thought the same when your own club, who flouted the salary cap for the third time, should be hit with a substantial punishment like we’ve seen Saracens get in RU today. You didn’t answer either, so you should grab yourself a bag of scratchings to do with your bitter. 

You could at least try to make sense.

I didn’t answer the “question” about salary cap breaches as it is totally irrelevant in this context, and you are just making a desperate attempt to distract people from the issue at hand.

I didn’t say anything about personal nett worth, you did, but don’t let the truth get in the way of a decent rant.

McManus made a complete ###### of himself, his club, and the whole of RL, and you need to admit his penalty is pathetic, and move on.

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12 hours ago, yipyee said:

Did the fan who gave him death threats retract his statement and fined 3k??

No he got tea and biscuits 

Firstly, that's not an RFL issue. It was a criminal issue. 

Secondly, that was a resolution that was agreed by all of the relevant parties (Warrington, Hicks, the fan involved and the police). Those sorts of arrangements are not uncommon and, in many cases, are encouraged by police forces. 

By owning a club, McMannus agrees to abide by certain rules and standards. He shamefully, knowingly and deliberately flouted those. 

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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7 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Firstly, that's not an RFL issue. It was a criminal issue. 

Secondly, that was a resolution that was agreed by all of the relevant parties (Warrington, Hicks, the fan involved and the police). Those sorts of arrangements are not uncommon and, in many cases, are encouraged by police forces. 

By owning a club, McMannus agrees to abide by certain rules and standards. He shamefully, knowingly and deliberately flouted those. 

  It wasn't a spur of the moment,reckless allegation but one made in a match programme several days after the event.

The anodyne,probably agreed,statement from the RFL fails to mention any warning as to his future conduct.It fails to warn others of the consequences should any other owner conduct themselves in a similar,disgraceful,manner.

If there is the opportunity for an educational workforce,for those unable to be reasonable,it hasn't been mentioned.

Whether or not Mr Hicks is ever going to officiate a future St Helens game has not been mentioned.

  Seems to be a sport in crisis from whatever angle I care to view it.


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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On 06/11/2019 at 08:48, whatmichaelsays said:

Firstly, that's not an RFL issue. It was a criminal issue. 

Secondly, that was a resolution that was agreed by all of the relevant parties (Warrington, Hicks, the fan involved and the police). Those sorts of arrangements are not uncommon and, in many cases, are encouraged by police forces. 

By owning a club, McMannus agrees to abide by certain rules and standards. He shamefully, knowingly and deliberately flouted those. 

So why doesn't the RFL and Hicks all sit down and Hicks can explain his decisions in a full and transparent manor.

McManus as you say was outspoken but if he was given a voice internally and the ref and RFL admitted their wrongdoing and compensated for their error then I am sure he wouldn't have felt the need to do what he did and in some opinion gain a fair crack with the SL final officiating.

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6 minutes ago, yipyee said:

So why doesn't the RFL and Hicks all sit down and Hicks can explain his decisions in a full and transparent manor.

McManus as you say was outspoken but if he was given a voice internally and the ref and RFL admitted their wrongdoing and compensated for their error then I am sure he wouldn't have felt the need to do what he did and in some opinion gain a fair crack with the SL final officiating.

How are you going to do that then? Replay the CC Final? Or just give it to Saints?

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1 hour ago, yipyee said:

So why doesn't the RFL and Hicks all sit down and Hicks can explain his decisions in a full and transparent manor.

McManus as you say was outspoken but if he was given a voice internally and the ref and RFL admitted their wrongdoing and compensated for their error then I am sure he wouldn't have felt the need to do what he did and in some opinion gain a fair crack with the SL final officiating.

Refs always make mistakes, should this explanation be required after every game?

what explanation is expected? I didn't think he got it down so didn't go to the screen. It would take 10 seconds 

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3 hours ago, yipyee said:

So why doesn't the RFL and Hicks all sit down and Hicks can explain his decisions in a full and transparent manor.

McManus as you say was outspoken but if he was given a voice internally and the ref and RFL admitted their wrongdoing and compensated for their error then I am sure he wouldn't have felt the need to do what he did and in some opinion gain a fair crack with the SL final officiating.

I think you will never accept what happened in the final, and you need to move on . McManus showed no class even with the passing of time. The  bigger problem you also won't accept was your teams inability to win a nil / nil game with 77 minutes to go against a team playing a second row at stand off, who were totally out of form. 

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5 hours ago, yipyee said:

McManus as you say was outspoken but if he was given a voice internally and the ref and RFL admitted their wrongdoing and compensated for their error

What wrongdoing? There was no wrongdoing. What are you talking about? There was one 50/50 call which should probably have been referred to the video ref near the start of the cup final after which, if I understand the McManus argument correctly, his group of mentally weak players were totally unable to show any fighting spirit or champion qualities and were soundly beaten by Warrington.

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21 hours ago, Fuzzy said:

Refs always make mistakes, should this explanation be required after every game?

what explanation is expected? I didn't think he got it down so didn't go to the screen. It would take 10 seconds 

Exactly 'I don't think' means it should have gone to the screen

He didn't get it down means he shouldn't go to the screen.

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16 hours ago, M j M said:

What wrongdoing? There was no wrongdoing. What are you talking about? There was one 50/50 call which should probably have been referred to the video ref near the start of the cup final after which, if I understand the McManus argument correctly, his group of mentally weak players were totally unable to show any fighting spirit or champion qualities and were soundly beaten by Warrington.

The wrongdoing of not going to video ref

The wrongdoing of not admitting the mistake

The wrongdoing of the RFL in backing the ref that made the error

A public apology by the ref and the RFL would have took control of the situation. Instead McManus said what he did to his own fans in a closed public platform

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1 hour ago, yipyee said:

The wrongdoing of not going to video ref

The wrongdoing of not admitting the mistake

The wrongdoing of the RFL in backing the ref that made the error

A public apology by the ref and the RFL would have took control of the situation. Instead McManus said what he did to his own fans in a closed public platform

Making a refereeing mistake is not wrongdoing.

Unjustifiably accusing a referee of systematic or deliberate bias, or worse, is wrongdoing.

Saints fans have been quite pathetic throughout this whole episode and it's really painted them in a rather sad light. They seem unable to accept how poor their team was and how that combined with a solid Warrington performance were the sole reasons for their cup final defeat.

Edited by M j M
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3 hours ago, yipyee said:

The wrongdoing of not going to video ref

The wrongdoing of not admitting the mistake

The wrongdoing of the RFL in backing the ref that made the error

A public apology by the ref and the RFL would have took control of the situation. Instead McManus said what he did to his own fans in a closed public platform

Firstly, forcing referees to make public apologies for simple refereeing errors - do you really want to go down that road? Would you want Lachlan Coote to be forced to grovel for forgiveness in St Helens town centre for his missed tackles and dropped bombs whilst you're at it? Start forcing referees to stand before the cameras and you'll soon see the pool of officials dry up. 

Secondly, a public apology wouldn't have stopped McManus expressing the sentiment he did. McManus' issue was that, in his view,  Hicks taking part in a police mediation session with a Warrington fan influenced his impartiality and made him, one of our better referees, unfit to take charge of a final. That's where he crossed the line. 

For me it is simple. If McManus can't accept that in professional sport, referees will make mistakes that impact his team, he isn't mature enough to be involved in professional sport and he needs to find something else to do. That applies to any fan too. 

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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3 hours ago, yipyee said:

Exactly 'I don't think' means it should have gone to the screen

He didn't get it down means he shouldn't go to the screen.

Ok, in his mind he was sure he hadn't got it down so didn't go to the screen

this was an error

meeting over

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3 hours ago, yipyee said:

The wrongdoing of not going to video ref

The wrongdoing of not admitting the mistake

The wrongdoing of the RFL in backing the ref that made the error

A public apology by the ref and the RFL would have took control of the situation. Instead McManus said what he did to his own fans in a closed public platform

Yes he didn't go to the screen and he should have

players dropped the ball and shouldn't have

Wrong doing of McManus backing his players when he should have brought them out in public to apologise for their wrongdoing

fact is, refs shouldn't be publically humiliated, just like anyone in employment. It may make fans feel better who are calling for blood over a ref errro, but human dignity determines that  any discussions are done in private. People mistake the lack of public humiliation with nothing happening, that's entirely their assumption based solely on suspicion

we struggle for officials as it is, don't make their job harder than it already is

players make errors, I don't what be them being humiliated either

the ref messed up in the 4th minute of a game, it didn't lose saints the game, lose with dignity

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Fuzzy said:

Yes he didn't go to the screen and he should have

players dropped the ball and shouldn't have

Wrong doing of McManus backing his players when he should have brought them out in public to apologise for their wrongdoing

fact is, refs shouldn't be publically humiliated, just like anyone in employment. It may make fans feel better who are calling for blood over a ref errro, but human dignity determines that  any discussions are done in private. People mistake the lack of public humiliation with nothing happening, that's entirely their assumption based solely on suspicion

we struggle for officials as it is, don't make their job harder than it already is

players make errors, I don't what be them being humiliated either

the ref messed up in the 4th minute of a game, it didn't lose saints the game, lose with dignity

 

 

 

I think it's not having an impartial ref that was the issue.

Clearly events leading up to the final effected the impartiality of the ref and he shouldn't have been put into the position of the final.

This is the RFLs error and they should apologise 

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10 hours ago, yipyee said:

I think it's not having an impartial ref that was the issue.

Clearly events leading up to the final effected the impartiality of the ref and he shouldn't have been put into the position of the final.

This is the RFLs error and they should apologise 

It didn't clearly affect his impartiality, that's only your assumption based purely on an error by the ref. The RFL shouldn't apologise for your or anyone else's assumptions, what if s different fan, such as me thinks he was impartial and just made an error? 

 

Why didnt the club complain before the game is the bigger question, they only mentioned it after they lost

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13 hours ago, yipyee said:

I think it's not having an impartial ref that was the issue.

Clearly events leading up to the final effected the impartiality of the ref and he shouldn't have been put into the position of the final.

This is the RFLs error and they should apologise 

You really need to stop digging, you are embarrassing yourself by constantly trying to defend the indefensible. And not a single fan from any other club agrees with your opinions and many sensible saint's fans as well. 

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