The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Dave T]

5 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Yet he was prepared to carry on as they dug the hole they were in deeper and deeper, leading the business and effectively holding the spade. I'm afraid simply making the (sort of) right noises for someone in his position just doesn't cut it for me and if he's as savvy as made out he'd know he was banging his head against a wall with Argyle - as they say 'actions speak....'

I suppose I am giving plenty of benefit of the doubt, because ultimately he is just an employee and if Argyle doesn't want to pay for things or carry on funding then ultimately that's what happens, as it is unlikely that TWP had normal levels of income that allowed Hunter to run a fully mature club. 

It'll be interesting to see what happens if they are still in. 

[TIWIT]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I suppose I am giving plenty of benefit of the doubt, because ultimately he is just an employee and if Argyle doesn't want to pay for things or carry on funding then ultimately that's what happens, as it is unlikely that TWP had normal levels of income that allowed Hunter to run a fully mature club. 

It'll be interesting to see what happens if they are still in. 

Hard as it to believe I agree with you. I have often wondered just why Bob Hunter involved himself with TWP. Given his reputation he really could do a lot better and I doubt he drank the Argyle-flavoured KoolAid. Maybe he liked the challenge. Or was a closet RL fan all along.

Given free rein I think he could have righted things but I also think Argyle was a micromanage who reserved all final decisions unto himself with ultimately disastrous results.

I don't believe LiVolsi will be a hands-on owner. He will let Hunter run the show.

[Oldbear]

2 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Hard as it to believe I agree with you. I have often wondered just why Bob Hunter involved himself with TWP. Given his reputation he really could do a lot better and I doubt he drank the Argyle-flavoured KoolAid. Maybe he liked the challenge. Or was a closet RL fan all along.

Given free rein I think he could have righted things but I also think Argyle was a micromanage who reserved all final decisions unto himself with ultimately disastrous results.

I don't believe LiVolsi will be a hands-on owner. He will let Hunter run the show.

That seems to be the best summary of the situation, Argyle definitely seemed to come across as a micromanager, which may be why Perez left and also why TWP’s off field set up was weak, as he tended to discourage any delegation. I know nothing about LiVolsi so I can’t comment but his business tends to be a little more conventional than Argyles speculative approach, so maybe he will be more of a guy who is willing to delegate to the right people. With regard to Hunter, maybe he saw an opportunity, maybe he expected Argyle to move on at some point (obviously not quite like this, but Covid won’t have helped) which would have strengthened his hand, maybe he took in a game as a guest and saw the potential, who knows?

[Dave T]

I think it's fair to compare Argyle with Koukash, although Koukash clearly has some morals.

They both enjoyed the adulation and it was clearly an expensive vanity project, but if they wanted to be serious long term sports club owners they would have focused on getting the right people in the right positions. 

[gingerjon]

22 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I took the test on Monday, and came back positive Tuesday, I will go along with your symptoms and add in a throat that feels as though if has been scrubbed with a wire brush.

Good luck Robin.

Only just seen this.

Best wishes to the both of you.

(I'm awaiting results of a covid test but that was taken for population surveying purposes and not out of need)

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I really don't get this Hunter adulation. It was after he joined that things really started to go pear shaped and he was the CEO during the period of non payment of wages and when they were being elusive in putting forward their 'application' for SL before last season's MPG; and continues to be afaik. Continuing in that role for months while such was going on suggests he was complicit in the act.

And further, considering he had been in discussion with SL/RFL on a number of previous occasions would it not have been appropiate that he assisted LiVolsi in the preperation of the first presentation, the guy is going to be the CE if they get the nod surely he would have had some input? 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

I suppose I am giving plenty of benefit of the doubt, because ultimately he is just an employee and if Argyle doesn't want to pay for things or carry on funding then ultimately that's what happens, as it is unlikely that TWP had normal levels of income that allowed Hunter to run a fully mature club. 

It'll be interesting to see what happens if they are still in. 

He's CEO, not an office boy. Carrying on in that role while (other) employees are not being paid for months makes him absolutely complicit in that act. If TWP were to be re-admitted I'd hope none of the current executives were considered to be 'fit and proper'. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, TIWIT said:

How ya doing Harry and Robin?

Positive Covid tests?

Improving thanks, hope Robin is the same. 

[TIWIT]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Improving thanks, hope Robin is the same. 

[Davo5]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Improving thanks, hope Robin is the same. 

Take it easy boys.

[Steve Slater]

On 21/10/2020 at 21:03, Oxford said:

Steve I think this is all over bar't shoutin' the prospect of all 3 NA clubs will be short lived.

On the bad side another failed attempt on the good side forum threads will move on.

I don't think TWP being hammered will affect Ottawa in any way but I believe the rejection and demise of TWP certainly will.

Oxford, I don't think that allowing them back in 2022 would be a rejection, it would be better for all parties and certainly give TWP a much better chance of being competitive.

[Harry Stottle]

Can anyone confirm, is the sceduled meeting for today still taking place?

[Dave T]

49 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

He's CEO, not an office boy. Carrying on in that role while (other) employees are not being paid for months makes him absolutely complicit in that act. If TWP were to be re-admitted I'd hope none of the current executives were considered to be 'fit and proper'. 

I'm not sure that is necessarily true, particularly in the environment we are talking about. 

I think you have a fair point around what his involvement was, but for all we know he may have been doing everything right in terms of ensuring the right things were done, but ultimately if the cupboard is bare they cannot be paid, and we know that this setup is an odd one where I expect TWP to be cash-broke and basically spending out of Argyle's accounts - that leaves Hunter powerless and Argyle responsible. 

We also don't know whether Hunter was even paid. 

As I say, he is certainly getting benefit of the doubt from me, but I think we have seen many good CEO's have to try and deal with these difficult situations and I don't think they deserve nanning, unless negligence is proved. 

The issue with Argyle is not going 'broke' it is the dishonesty and questionable business dealings that mean he should be banned. 

[Robin Evans]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Only just seen this.

Best wishes to the both of you.

(I'm awaiting results of a covid test but that was taken for population surveying purposes and not out of need)

Covid negative. Today is the first day out of bed since Sunday. Temp 38.5.... uti still on impact..... but NOT covid so at least I can hug my grandkids

I right waste of a week's annual leave!

[TIWIT]

6 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Covid negative. Today is the first day out of bed since Sunday. Temp 38.5.... uti still on impact..... but NOT covid so at least I can hug my grandkids

I right waste of a week's annual leave!

[TIWIT]

50 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure that is necessarily true, particularly in the environment we are talking about. 

I think you have a fair point around what his involvement was, but for all we know he may have been doing everything right in terms of ensuring the right things were done, but ultimately if the cupboard is bare they cannot be paid, and we know that this setup is an odd one where I expect TWP to be cash-broke and basically spending out of Argyle's accounts - that leaves Hunter powerless and Argyle responsible. 

We also don't know whether Hunter was even paid. 

As I say, he is certainly getting benefit of the doubt from me, but I think we have seen many good CEO's have to try and deal with these difficult situations and I don't think they deserve nanning, unless negligence is proved. 

The issue with Argyle is not going 'broke' it is the dishonesty and questionable business dealings that mean he should be banned. 

I dont think Hunter was ever paid.

[Quolls2020]

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/super-league-players-who-would-go-well-in-the-nrl/

[Harry Stottle]

22 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Covid negative. Today is the first day out of bed since Sunday. Temp 38.5.... uti still on impact..... but NOT covid so at least I can hug my grandkids

I right waste of a week's annual leave!

Well done, you have dodged a bullet Robin, it ain't good.

[Quolls2020]

The vultures await

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/toronto-boss-bob-hunter-hopes-wolfpack-can-prove-their-worth-to-super-league/

[Derwent]

3 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

He's CEO, not an office boy. Carrying on in that role while (other) employees are not being paid for months makes him absolutely complicit in that act. If TWP were to be re-admitted I'd hope none of the current executives were considered to be 'fit and proper'. 

You could also say that about this LiVolsi fellow. As I understand it he was a member of the "ownership group" and while Argyle was ultimately the man in control the other "owners" also have to take some responsibility for the situation. If Argyle couldn't pay the players then why did the "ownership group" not step forward to help, or were they asked to but refused ?

[Quolls2020]

The office boy speaks

 

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/toronto-boss-bob-hunter-hopes-wolfpack-can-prove-their-worth-to-super-league/

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, Steve Slater said:

Oxford, I don't think that allowing them back in 2022 would be a rejection, it would be better for all parties and certainly give TWP a much better chance of being competitive.

Hello Steve hope you're well,

I don't think a delay would be in any way helpful to anyone except posters who don't want them at all.

With the kind of monies TWP would have and given a close season to prepare being competitive shouldn't prove an insurmountable goal.

stay safe.

[Steve Slater]

4 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

Covid negative. Today is the first day out of bed since Sunday. Temp 38.5.... uti still on impact..... but NOT covid so at least I can hug my grandkids

I right waste of a week's annual leave!

Delighted for you Robin, make sure you're well shielded whilst recovering from whatever you've got. Folk of our age and build would be sitting ducks. My 19 year old grandson, at Nottingham Uni, has just come out of it in good health other than reduced sense of taste and smell.

UTR.

[Steve Slater]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

Hello Steve hope you're well,

I don't think a delay would be in any way helpful to anyone except posters who don't want them at all.

With the kind of monies TWP would have and given a close season to prepare being competitive shouldn't prove an insurmountable goal.

stay safe.

Same to you Oxford, I'm stuck at home shielding. I've been following this game for 60 years and seen many clubs try to buy success and it doesn't always work, plus I've witnessed many starter clubs fall from grace when they face top class opposition and suddenly lose the winning touch. TWP can be a major force in the game, but I don't think there are enough quality players available to build a competitive squad for next year, and a bad season, or even relegation, could do untold damage.

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Steve Slater said:

Same to you Oxford, I'm stuck at home shielding. I've been following this game for 60 years and seen many clubs try to buy success and it doesn't always work, plus I've witnessed many starter clubs fall from grace when they face top class opposition and suddenly lose the winning touch. TWP can be a major force in the game, but I don't think there are enough quality players available to build a competitive squad for next year, and a bad season, or even relegation, could do untold damage.

What year did you begin watching? I'm always shielding!

Yes relegation is a blight, promotion isn't so what do you do?

I don't think it's about buying success and I hope those days are gone forever, they meant clubs have crashed on the rocks more times than Donald Trump businesses.

Any team not in a heartland would have to spend quite a few years  buying before being in the position of fielding a home grown side and even the most successful clubs at this still need a Bevan French or four.

When they opted for protecting the Dragons early on from relegation I thought they'd learned their lesson.

And although they could be a force the decision should be entirely about what effect it has on the media coverage here to have them competing. Has it increased coverage? Does it continue to increase it? What other effects can be attributed to any increase ?  etc It's media oxygen that the game is starved of and in turn the level of investment and sponsorship required because of that.