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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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I'd like to see Toronto stay. Let's say they are signed up again for 2021 however, but we're still in the same place re travel restrictions, etc. What then? 

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5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Minus selecting the candidate to enter SL on the field of play, I would sooner they turned cards over or any other game of chance other than just favouring one team. 

Really doesn't need to be fev or leigh getting battered every week cos we're not properly prepared.

Toulouse best other option.

But as I said, I'd prefer no team filling the slot

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2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbf H you'd know more than I would about unscrupulous owners who'd pulled out midseason and used threats of non paying debts to get things through.

But anyway, LiVolsi isn't the owner of the club yet, effectively its in RFL limbo-administration. He has suggested he wants to lead an ownership group takeover, pay all debts to creditors save the largest of those, Argyle, who has written off his investment, submitted proposals for that, on the condition the club keeps its place in Super League for 2021. If he doesn't get that he's got no problem walking away, as he was never actually the owner. That's the chip he holds in trade for the 12th super league spot.

If he turned around and paid players now, before his ownership had even been confirmed, let alone Toronto's league place, he'd be making his position immeasurably weaker for no reason. A bit like if the UK gave the EU a load of money "in good faith" before even agreeing that a deal will even be made! It would be stupid in both cases I'm sure you'll agree.

Tommy yes I know all that, 

But that does not hide the fact that he is saying to SL, choose Toronto to play in SL or the player's get nothing, so it comes down to a moral issue for SL, choose Toronto and the player's get paid, don't choose Toronto and they get nothing.

As I said in another post, pay the players something out of the SL funding, keep with 11 teams next season and it won't cost as much to the SL clubs as re-admitting Toronto and it won't have the season on season costs.

I asked what will Toronto be doing to recompense the SL clubs? the answer is what can they do apart from getting a TV deal to put into the pot, and when will that be, Mr Perez is oft quoted on these pages when it suits, but Mr Perez also said it would be nessacary to have 4 or 5 teams from Canada playing in SL to entice a TV deal, that ain't going to happen soon if ever is it?

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Tommy yes I know all that, 

But that does not hide the fact that he is saying to SL, choose Toronto to play in SL or the player's get nothing, so it comes down to a moral issue for SL, choose Toronto and the player's get paid, don't choose Toronto and they get nothing.

As I said in another post, pay the players something out of the SL funding, keep with 11 teams next season and it won't cost as much to the SL clubs as re-admitting Toronto and it won't have the season on season costs.

I asked what will Toronto be doing to recompense the SL clubs? the answer is what can they do apart from getting a TV deal to put into the pot, and when will that be, Mr Perez is oft quoted on these pages when it suits, but Mr Perez also said it would be nessacary to have 4 or 5 teams from Canada playing in SL to entice a TV deal, that ain't going to happen soon if ever is it?

If its a moral choice its somewhat irrelevant, its the choice facing them. No rational person would buy a business with lots of debts that would then be effectively barred from its marketplace. That's reality.

The Super League funding will either go to Toronto or the other clubs. There may be some hardship style fund but realistically no Super league club is going to sanction half a squad of players been paid but not playing. If that's your plan you may as well have them in Toronto kits adding to the fixtures available to be televised.

Within 3 years of Toronto's existence we've got Ottawa, its not unfeasible for others to appear in a similar vein. If we're having 2 Canadian clubs it makes us at least as committed to Canada as we are to France currently. You and I both know how the most money can be made from TV deals in both those places, but I'm the only one of us two willing to compromise to get that.

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

If its a moral choice its somewhat irrelevant, its the choice facing them. No rational person would buy a business with lots of debts that would then be effectively barred from its marketplace. That's reality.

The Super League funding will either go to Toronto or the other clubs. There may be some hardship style fund but realistically no Super league club is going to sanction half a squad of players been paid but not playing. If that's your plan you may as well have them in Toronto kits adding to the fixtures available to be televised.

Within 3 years of Toronto's existence we've got Ottawa, its not unfeasible for others to appear in a similar vein. If we're having 2 Canadian clubs it makes us at least as committed to Canada as we are to France currently. You and I both know how the most money can be made from TV deals in both those places, but I'm the only one of us two willing to compromise to get that.

Unfortunately the moral stuff has to be pushed to one side, this is business, SL are not liable for paying wages for players' wages from their employer, and this guy is not liable to pay wages for people he does not employ yet. 

The best we can hope for is a credible plan that works for everyone including the players, but due diligence has to prove this guy can afford it, otherwise we just risk the same situation in a year or two. 

Edited by Dave T
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Just now, Dave T said:

Unfortunately the moral stuff has to be pushed to one side, this is business, SL are not liable for paying wages for players' wages from their employer, and this guy is not liable to pay wages for people he does not employ yet. 

The best we can hope for is a credible plan that works for everyone including the players, but due diligence has to prove this guu can afford it, otherwise we just risk the same situation in a year or two. 

100% agree with that mate. 

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

(1) If its a moral choice its somewhat irrelevant, its the choice facing them. No rational person would buy a business with lots of debts that would then be effectively barred from its marketplace. That's reality.

(2) The Super League funding will either go to Toronto or the other clubs. There may be some hardship style fund but realistically no Super league club is going to sanction half a squad of players been paid but not playing. If that's your plan you may as well have them in Toronto kits adding to the fixtures available to be televised.

(3) Within 3 years of Toronto's existence we've got Ottawa, its not unfeasible for others to appear in a similar vein. If we're having 2 Canadian clubs it makes us at least as committed to Canada as we are to France currently. You and I both know how the most money can be made from TV deals in both those places, but I'm the only one of us two willing to compromise to get that.

1. Off course I know that, I have both bought and sold a business.

2. The correct option is to just run with 11 clubs next season, would any rational person sign up to admit Toronto and share whatever funding they receive from any number of televised games that may or may not be played cuertosy of Covid.

3. If you have read anything that I have said previously re Ottawa's or any other NA clubs inclusion into our League system I have maintained and never varied that it is far to soon, I have maintained all along that Toronto is a prototype and work in progress and should be monitered, scrutinised, evalued, even examined with a magnifying glass, no company in their right mind goes into full production until the prototype is proven. I did say 7 years of evaluating TWP should be the minimum time frame, to which even from over 3,000 miles away I heard Kayakman cough and splutter as he was getting stuck into his Beaver Muffin when he read that!

Funny how you know about the TV deals, but we have had people on here one Canadian and one who had some connection to the FFR both who consider that TV deals for Rugby League in their respective countries are unlikely to happen.

 

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2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

1. Off course I know that, I have both bought and sold a business.

2. The correct option is to just run with 11 clubs next season, would any rational person sign up to admit Toronto and share whatever funding they receive from any number of televised games that may or may not be played cuertosy of Covid.

3. If you have read anything that I have said previously re Ottawa's or any other NA clubs inclusion into our League system I have maintained and never varied that it is far to soon, I have maintained all along that Toronto is a prototype and work in progress and should be monitered, scrutinised, evalued, even examined with a magnifying glass, no company in their right mind goes into full production until the prototype is proven. I did say 7 years of evaluating TWP should be the minimum time frame, to which even from over 3,000 miles away I heard Kayakman cough and splutter as he was getting stuck into his Beaver Muffin when he read that!

Funny how you know about the TV deals, but we have had people on here one Canadian and one who had some connection to the FFR both who consider that TV deals for Rugby League in their respective countries are unlikely to happen.

 

If they let you post views like that then Toronto should be allowed in SL in 2021 😉

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27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Unfortunately the moral stuff has to be pushed to one side, this is business, SL are not liable for paying wages for players' wages from their employer, and this guy is not liable to pay wages for people he does not employ yet. 

The best we can hope for is a credible plan that works for everyone including the players, but due diligence has to prove this guy can afford it, otherwise we just risk the same situation in a year or two. 

Rugby League is littered with start up clubs and owners taken on face value only to watch them fail, Argyle is just another statistic on that list no matter what his wealth is, LiVolsi has apparently produced an 80 page document of his intentions, is that enough? 

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Beaver Tails, Harry. No such thing as a Beaver Muffin.

Beaver Tails are more of an Ottawa speciality. Would make a great name for a rugby team.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Really, thats not much fun😉

I have no idea how a beaver's digestive system works, but that does create a mental image of what a Beaver Muffin might be (think cow patty) and that's a real appetite killer.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

The correct option is to just run with 11 clubs next season

This comment belies it all H. That is surely a worst case scenario that sees half a squad unemployed and a club no longer in existence.

Your option is based on not wanting Toronto in the league covid or not. That's fine, but its far easier debating when we're all clear about that.

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10 hours ago, Kayakman said:

An owner has the responsibilities of an owner...a prospective owner has the responsibilities of a respective owner...this is not to hard to figure.

Depends what the prospective owner buys. If they buy the company they take on the assets AND the liabilities... this is not to (sic) hard to figure.😍

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Unfortunately the moral stuff has to be pushed to one side, this is business, SL are not liable for paying wages for players' wages from their employer, and this guy is not liable to pay wages for people he does not employ yet. 

The best we can hope for is a credible plan that works for everyone including the players, but due diligence has to prove this guy can afford it, otherwise we just risk the same situation in a year or two. 

This is a reasonable position....

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13 minutes ago, SL17 said:

I don’t see any anti Wolfpack attacks. Only concern to keep your club going.

Take that as you wish.

Don't worry about us...we are going to be fine...it will all work out in the end.   Thanks for your concern though but we know exactly what we are doing and its all being taken care of.  We want to get those players paid ASAP and begin rebuilding for next season.

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7 minutes ago, SL17 said:


 

It’s all in the name of branding. There’s no assets so what’s he paying for it? 
 

 

Would you not invest $1 if the possible payback would be $1000 dollars in a couple of years?  He is buying the potential for TWP to go big in NA and it most certainly will if these current impediments are overcome.  The potential for growth is real as any cost/benefit analysis would certainly show.

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