The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Gerrumonside ref]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

We are in the middle of a global pandemic , right now is not the time to be planning world domination 

World domination?  I’m talking about a vision for the sport and an agreement on how to take the first steps to realising it.

Does that sound like too much?

 

[Tommygilf]

 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

World domination?  I’m talking about a vision for the sport and an agreement on how to take the first steps to realising it.

Does that sound like too much?

 

A train station is a bit scary for our gubby

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Have you told China???

I'm leaving that to uncle Donald

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

A train station is a bit scary for our gubby

Calming down now are we ?

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We are in the middle of a global pandemic , right now is not the time to be planning world domination 

Pandemic or not I have heard the same excuses for maintaining the status quo throughout my life. Its also during times like this that you need a clear strategy or plan.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Calming down now are we 

You keep coming back for more!

[Robin Evans]

6 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

World domination?  I’m talking about a vision for the sport and an agreement on how to take the first steps to realising it.

Does that sound like too much?

 

An agreement? In rugby league????

Sorry cocker, just run that past me again......

[Singspiel]

I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't see anyone willing to spend the money to start again from the bottom.I attended 90% of the games at Lamport and loved interacting with the visiting supporters they always seemed to have a good time and enjoyed visiting Toronto.I feel terrible and ashamed that the players weren't paid what they were owed and my admiration of David Argyle has all but evaporated.I don't ever see another team in Toronto and I doubt that the RFL will ever look at North America again for expansion.This was a huge opportunity for rugby league to get a foothold on another continent and it Is nobodys fault that it was killed by an unexpected virus that no one saw coming.its just unfortunate it has to end this way.

I would like to thank Leeds Rhinos,St Helens RFC,Catalan Dragons and the RFL for voting in our favour and hope that one of them wins the Grand Final this year.

I have loved every minute of having a team in Toronto and going to the games but that is now at an end ,thank you for letting us be a small part of the rugby league world.

[RayCee]

2 minutes ago, Singspiel said:

I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't see anyone willing to spend the money to start again from the bottom.I attended 90% of the games at Lamport and loved interacting with the visiting supporters they always seemed to have a good time and enjoyed visiting Toronto.I feel terrible and ashamed that the players weren't paid what they were owed and my admiration of David Argyle has all but evaporated.I don't ever see another team in Toronto and I doubt that the RFL will ever look at North America again for expansion.This was a huge opportunity for rugby league to get a foothold on another continent and it Is nobodys fault that it was killed by an unexpected virus that no one saw coming.its just unfortunate it has to end this way.

I would like to thank Leeds Rhinos,St Helens RFC,Catalan Dragons and the RFL for voting in our favour and hope that one of them wins the Grand Final this year.

I have loved every minute of having a team in Toronto and going to the games but that is now at an end ,thank you for letting us be a small part of the rugby league world.

Well said.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Singspiel said:

I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't see anyone willing to spend the money to start again from the bottom.I attended 90% of the games at Lamport and loved interacting with the visiting supporters they always seemed to have a good time and enjoyed visiting Toronto.I feel terrible and ashamed that the players weren't paid what they were owed and my admiration of David Argyle has all but evaporated.I don't ever see another team in Toronto and I doubt that the RFL will ever look at North America again for expansion.This was a huge opportunity for rugby league to get a foothold on another continent and it Is nobodys fault that it was killed by an unexpected virus that no one saw coming.its just unfortunate it has to end this way.

I would like to thank Leeds Rhinos,St Helens RFC,Catalan Dragons and the RFL for voting in our favour and hope that one of them wins the Grand Final this year.

I have loved every minute of having a team in Toronto and going to the games but that is now at an end ,thank you for letting us be a small part of the rugby league world.

I can totally understand how you feel and it makes me so sad reading that.

[Oldbear]

1 hour ago, Mushy said:

I cried when my club Gateshead disappeared in 1999, and I may just shed another tonight as I realise I no longer love this sport enough to go through the pain of following it any more. 

Me too pal, now I’m sat on another continent watching history sort of repeat itself. However I do have mixed feelings over the decision because

1. as some have said, we have no idea what was in the proposal

2. I was very worried that Mr LiVolsi’s sole interest seemed to be promoting the grooming product, he did not come across as committed to TWP as a club, nor the sport. I’m still not convinced he is a sports fan, which often does not bode well for a long term commitment

3. I still think RL could work in Canada, and even produce players, providing there is a well planned development strategy, again there seemed to be little sign of this though

4. whilst we remain in a pandemic world the integration of transatlantic teams in a European comp seems to have major barriers, which show no sign of going away soon. The benefit of having TWP was to have games in Canada, sadly I couldn’t tell you when live sport with spectators is destined to return here.

I watch both SL and NRL thanks to me paying a subscription to Sportsnet World. I have to say if you sat a group of potential investors down to watch both camps they would overwhelmingly vote for the NRL, it just now seems so far ahead of SL that as an observer I just can’t see how the gap can be closed. I suspect SL’s future is to become a feeder comp to the NRL and Union, and that to me is very sad. I don’t think readmitting TWP would make that much of a difference however, unless the TWP that returned had all the positives of the previous version plus financial stability and a plan to develop the game in Canada, sadly we will never know and I suspect that any thoughts of pro RL in Canada are now dead.

[Segovia Carpet]

Mr Singspiel - Its all down to Money as Derwent inferred some pages back.

The new owner was not businesslike enough in supporting his budgets with hard facts & PROOF of assets and his laid back attitude to have the `conference call` in his car just showed a lot of arrogance.

My personal view is that they finished on 0% and should be relegated to the Championship with one of London, Leigh Fev to come up - or all 3 if the SL clubs would divi up and have their slice reduced.  Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind so that won`t happen of course.

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, Singspiel said:

I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't see anyone willing to spend the money to start again from the bottom.I attended 90% of the games at Lamport and loved interacting with the visiting supporters they always seemed to have a good time and enjoyed visiting Toronto.I feel terrible and ashamed that the players weren't paid what they were owed and my admiration of David Argyle has all but evaporated.I don't ever see another team in Toronto and I doubt that the RFL will ever look at North America again for expansion.This was a huge opportunity for rugby league to get a foothold on another continent and it Is nobodys fault that it was killed by an unexpected virus that no one saw coming.its just unfortunate it has to end this way.

I would like to thank Leeds Rhinos,St Helens RFC,Catalan Dragons and the RFL for voting in our favour and hope that one of them wins the Grand Final this year.

I have loved every minute of having a team in Toronto and going to the games but that is now at an end ,thank you for letting us be a small part of the rugby league world.

I'm gutted for you mate. Will wear my Toronto shirt with pride next year at Headingley. 

[Oldbear]

31 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'd sooner they had been frozen till 2022 , which would have given them time to find a better bidder than the one we got 

This is exactly what should have happened, it seems like LiVolsi was rushed forward as the bidder, but his bid seemed to have purely focused on his grooming business and not TWP as a club. Had the team been frozen for a year it would have given the likes of Hunter to search for alternatives who offered a more credible plan, however for whatever reason this did not happen, I’m not sure why because there was no way anyone taking up the 12th spot could be ready in time to compete in 2021 so why not just run with 11 for that year and tell Hunter that if TWP want to be in for 2022 then he has time to put together a credible bid with a new owner.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

This is exactly what should have happened, it seems like LiVolsi was rushed forward as the bidder, but his bid seemed to have purely focused on his grooming business and not TWP as a club. Had the team been frozen for a year it would have given the likes of Hunter to search for alternatives who offered a more credible plan, however for whatever reason this did not happen, I’m not sure why because there was no way anyone taking up the 12th spot could be ready in time to compete in 2021 so why not just run with 11 for that year and tell Hunter that if TWP want to be in for 2022 then he has time to put together a credible bid with a new owner.

To me they should have been frozen back in April , a GLOBAL pandemic ' trump's ' everything else 

[Chris Taylor]

3 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

This is exactly what should have happened, it seems like LiVolsi was rushed forward as the bidder, but his bid seemed to have purely focused on his grooming business and not TWP as a club. Had the team been frozen for a year it would have given the likes of Hunter to search for alternatives who offered a more credible plan, however for whatever reason this did not happen, I’m not sure why because there was no way anyone taking up the 12th spot could be ready in time to compete in 2021 so why not just run with 11 for that year and tell Hunter that if TWP want to be in for 2022 then he has time to put together a credible bid with a new owner.

The chances of Toronto even competing in Canada next year were less than 10%. 

It would have been totally reasonable for this to happen and clubs to accept that, with perhaps the option to even expand the game to 14 teams when they return. 

If I was any part of Ottawa, NY, Valencia I would be looking at alternatives. Especially in America - it would be better for them to spend there own money on creating there own league without SL clubs playing hardball.

What's interesting is Gary Hethrington and the Rhinos voted yes - he had been to Toronto for the final last year, he will have seen first hand the impact that game had. 

So many questions that will have very few answers - only he said / she said.

[Oldbear]

17 minutes ago, Segovia Carpet said:

My personal view is that they finished on 0% and should be relegated to the Championship with one of London, Leigh Fev to come up - or all 3 if the SL clubs would divi up and have their slice reduced.  Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind so that won`t happen of course.

Sadly if the stories about a reduced TV deal are true then there’s no chance of an expansion, more likely a contraction to 10 to protect the majority. My guess is either Wakefield (unpopular owner, terrible facilities) or Hull KR (seeking new owner) will find themselves on the chopping block as the so called big clubs look to protect themselves.

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

The chances of Toronto even competing in Canada next year were less than 10%. 

It would have been totally reasonable for this to happen and clubs to accept that, with perhaps the option to even expand the game to 14 teams when they return. 

If I was any part of Ottawa, NY, Valencia I would be looking at alternatives. Especially in America - it would be better for them to spend there own money on creating there own league without SL clubs playing hardball.

What's interesting is Gary Hethrington and the Rhinos voted yes - he had been to Toronto for the final last year, he will have seen first hand the impact that game had. 

So many questions that will have very few answers - only he said / she said.

All the time , money sandwiches and coffee has been completely pointless 

And it was Steve Slater who originally suggested they ' Hibernate ' , freeze ' or whatever else 

Oreet with that Steve ?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Oldbear said:

Sadly if the stories about a reduced TV deal are true then there’s no chance of an expansion, more likely a contraction to 10 to protect the majority. My guess is either Wakefield (unpopular owner, terrible facilities) or Hull KR (seeking new owner) will find themselves on the chopping block as the so called big clubs look to protect themselves.

And ultimately if that's what they need to do , then that is what will happen 

[Oldbear]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

And it was Steve Slater who originally suggested they ' Hibernate ' , freeze ' or whatever else 

Oreet with that Steve ? 

So you, me and Steve are the sane ones? Fancy trying to take over running a sport? I propose you for chair.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Oldbear said:

Sadly if the stories about a reduced TV deal are true then there’s no chance of an expansion, more likely a contraction to 10 to protect the majority. My guess is either Wakefield (unpopular owner, terrible facilities) or Hull KR (seeking new owner) will find themselves on the chopping block as the so called big clubs look to protect themselves.

Of course there’s chance for expansion when the TV deal decreases. It requires a strategic plan, though. As did Toronto, though we never got one. People don’t want ten teams in Super League. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Oldbear said:

So you, me and Steve are the sane ones? Fancy trying to take over running a sport? I propose you for chair.

No thanks , I've done my bit on a RL board 

I once tried to get the lower tiers together for their mutual benefit , believe me , that was impossible

[Oldbear]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

Of course there’s chance for expansion when the TV deal decreases. It requires a strategic plan, though. As did Toronto, though we never got one. People don’t want ten teams in Super League. 

You say that but

1. this is RL, when do we ever have a strategic plan?

2. we the fans don’t want 10, Sky I suspect doesn’t give a ###### as long as it gets a competitive league, which leaves us with the decision makers, wait a minute they are the existing clubs, who are more concerned with income, especially if there’s no or little season ticket revenue next year. Sacrifice one to save 10 maybe?

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

The chances of Toronto even competing in Canada next year were less than 10%. 

It would have been totally reasonable for this to happen and clubs to accept that, with perhaps the option to even expand the game to 14 teams when they return. 

If I was any part of Ottawa, NY, Valencia I would be looking at alternatives. Especially in America - it would be better for them to spend there own money on creating there own league without SL clubs playing hardball.

What's interesting is Gary Hethrington and the Rhinos voted yes - he had been to Toronto for the final last year, he will have seen first hand the impact that game had. 

So many questions that will have very few answers - only he said / she said.

My only hope from all this is that Perez may get involved and somehow Toronto, Ottawa and New York can develop something in North America. Yes I know there are doubts about New York but even if they can rope in a few more cities and build something it would be cheaper than the whole League 1, Championship route. I make no bones about being disappointed to lose Toronto but this would always be more preferable to me in the long run if it was even semi-pro type level.

After this decision I don't see much point in more North American teams joining our system if there is no plan. If Ottawa join under the same terms then the same issues will be seen. The only way I can see this now working is if a few teams i.e 4 joined  at the same time with a TV deal in some sort of conference. If they ever got to a position though where that was feasible or possible then it surely would be more lucrative for them to just develop a full blown American league.