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Boomer Bang Wool

Rugby league expansion - new lands or enemy territories?

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

No I'm just trying to establish facts, not some jackanory story. Yes I'm sure Josh Hannay leaving Australia and getting a 20k a  year development officer job was the clincher for him going to the Championship. Its funny it wasn't mentioned though, nor was their any mention of the 6 players that were deported having development officer jobs either.

I do find it amusing how Sport England money paid to the RFL somehow paid for over 20 players to be development officers in Wales. I am quite sure that the RFL would be in hot water for that, not spending the money in England and all. Likewise over 20 players having roles as development officers and cars to boot would be quite a big story and quite easy for someone to fact check. Proper governance of public money, auditing and all that. Again its odd that there has never been any mention of it.

By the time the players were deported they weren't development officers anymore , they were full time SL players , it's the 3 seasons prior to that I am recovering to when they operated with a £150 K cap in NL2 and a £250 K cap in NL1  

The suggestion was that the Celtic Crusaders owner had paid for them , if he had then he would have broken the salary cap , you don't get a full time squad on that money , but if they were employed by Wales RL as development officers ( which they did do some sessions in schools ) then that wouldn't count under a clubs salary cap ( the clubs were allowed a £20 K dispensation for employing development staff ) 

I might be wrong about the Sport England money ( there might have been some Sport Wales funds ) but the time line fits with RL getting considerable government funding for development 

Now then I am not saying they cheated , they didn't , if Leighton Samuels had put the money in , then yes they did , as any funds from club owners and directors paid to players counts on the salary cap ( despite that being a daft situation as club owners and directors have employed players as long as RL has existed ) , so they didn't break any SC rules 

The visa issue was completely separate 

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1 hour ago, RMBJ said:

Is that 25 players sharing £150k (£6k each) or £150k each player (£3.75m)?! 

The NL2 SC was £150 K in total ,NL1 had £250 K in total , ( small dispensations for development work and player coaches of around £20 K for each as I recall ) 

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Investing post

* France- still grassroots strong in south towns and small cities weakness tv  exposure and financial. 

* Pacific- great prototype athletes but money main issue 

* north America- potential in money, tv, sponsors lack of grassroots issue. 

* Wales- despite rugby union huge presence code goes through major periods in 1900s to 30s and 1995 world cup. But dropped ball throughout, i believe code may never reaches high it once acheived. 

* other areas England- Coventry and Bristol code needs presence in the south I go here rather than London. 

Ireland - code has presence from as many as 22 clubs to around 8 to 10. There where rumours of backer for Irish league 1 side. It could work if done right. 

Scotland - yeah don't see every a pro side game weak there at present. 

Serbia - I hold off for 5 seasons before this bid money main issue I see. 30 clubs in league so strong grassroots. 

 

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On 27/01/2020 at 04:54, Boomer Bang Wool said:

This is something I’ve recently thought about. We all want league to grow and expand but the question is, should we aim for new territories (areas with no union presence) or take them on where they exist? I’m torn on it but I’m leaning towards the former. I’ve seen plenty of people suggest places like Argentina, Uruguay, South Africa etc. 

To those people I ask, why is your first thought to go to those places? There are plenty of countries in the world, most of which without any union presence so I’m puzzled as to why we need to follow union everywhere. It can be done. Take the likes of Jamaica, Serbia, Nigeria etc. Those are league success stories, ones where we didn’t need to ride the coattails of union. 

I don’t want to come across as an union apologist but we cannot act surprised when union plays dirty in those countries in response to a rival who is attempting to bear the fruits of their hard work. And it certainly is hard work expanding into new territories. I think we should be targeting new territories with little to no union to speak of.

This is just my opinion anyway. What are your thoughts? 

I completely agree. There is far more potential for us in Brazil than Argentina, more in Greece than Italy. Also, we should be more particular in all territories about terminology. The word "Rugby" unaccompanied by the word "League" is a curse. The Kelsey Gentles tackle on Tiana Penitani clip currently has over 56 million views on the women`s RL Facebook page. It`s clear from reading the comments though, that most people think they`re watching "Rugby" not specifically Rugby League. Hence the consequence will be to raise the profile of Rugby Union. Why would any enterprise in its promotion use a word which makes most people around the world think of something else? Pepsi-cola would never stress the word "cola" over the word "Pepsi" in their marketing.

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10 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I completely agree. There is far more potential for us in Brazil than Argentina, more in Greece than Italy. Also, we should be more particular in all territories about terminology. The word "Rugby" unaccompanied by the word "League" is a curse. The Kelsey Gentles tackle on Tiana Penitani clip currently has over 56 million views on the women`s RL Facebook page. It`s clear from reading the comments though, that most people think they`re watching "Rugby" not specifically Rugby League. Hence the consequence will be to raise the profile of Rugby Union. Why would any enterprise in its promotion use a word which makes most people around the world think of something else? Pepsi-cola would never stress the word "cola" over the word "Pepsi" in their marketing.

Lesgue as a name is a curse lol

😀

Oh the standard has fallen so far.  These guys used to amuse me.

Edited by aj1908

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11 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I completely agree. There is far more potential for us in Brazil than Argentina, more in Greece than Italy. Also, we should be more particular in all territories about terminology. The word "Rugby" unaccompanied by the word "League" is a curse. The Kelsey Gentles tackle on Tiana Penitani clip currently has over 56 million views on the women`s RL Facebook page. It`s clear from reading the comments though, that most people think they`re watching "Rugby" not specifically Rugby League. Hence the consequence will be to raise the profile of Rugby Union. Why would any enterprise in its promotion use a word which makes most people around the world think of something else? Pepsi-cola would never stress the word "cola" over the word "Pepsi" in their marketing.

On the flip side, in countries that don’t know the distinction between Union and League, things that happen in Union raise the profile of our game too. 

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36 minutes ago, Eddie said:

On the flip side, in countries that don’t know the distinction between Union and League, things that happen in Union raise the profile of our game too. 

Which countries have a higher profile of League than Union?


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Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Which countries have a higher profile of League than Union?

No idea, but it’s not relevant to my point, if anything I’m saying League can be helped by Union in countries where neither game is currently popular. 

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

No idea, but it’s not relevant to my point, if anything I’m saying League can be helped by Union in countries where neither game is currently popular. 

If both games aren't popular, it could help both. However, it would most likely be more beneficial to the one that is just popular of the two.

Even in countries were neither rugby code is popular,  Union is by far more popular than league. That's how small our profile is.


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5 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

If both games aren't popular, it could help both. However, it would most likely be more beneficial to the one that is just popular of the two.

Even in countries were neither rugby code is popular,  Union is by far more popular than league. That's how small our profile is.

In a country (let’s pick Chile) where neither code is very well known but some people might have heard of Rugby and know roughly what it is because they’ve seen it in a film or something - if someone tries to start a rugby club or a school’s programme nobody would care if it was League or Union as they wouldn’t know there’s a difference, so they’d be more likely to go along with League because they’ve seen Union than they would if they hadn’t. 

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11 hours ago, Eddie said:

No idea, but it’s not relevant to my point, if anything I’m saying League can be helped by Union in countries where neither game is currently popular. 

Apart from when Union tries to kill it off. Even in places where Union is not that big it still always seems to have enough friends in high places to cause Rugby League real issues.

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On 09/02/2020 at 07:34, winnyason said:

Investing post

* France- still grassroots strong in south towns and small cities weakness tv  exposure and financial. 

* Pacific- great prototype athletes but money main issue 

* north America- potential in money, tv, sponsors lack of grassroots issue. 

* Wales- despite rugby union huge presence code goes through major periods in 1900s to 30s and 1995 world cup. But dropped ball throughout, i believe code may never reaches high it once acheived. 

* other areas England- Coventry and Bristol code needs presence in the south I go here rather than London. 

Ireland - code has presence from as many as 22 clubs to around 8 to 10. There where rumours of backer for Irish league 1 side. It could work if done right. 

Scotland - yeah don't see every a pro side game weak there at present. 

Serbia - I hold off for 5 seasons before this bid money main issue I see. 30 clubs in league so strong grassroots. 

 

     Bristol was suggested when Oxford and the All Golds dropped out/disappeared.

     If there is interest in Bristol they should try and get involved with this very promising development

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggANZrrFuX0

    


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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On 12/02/2020 at 06:31, aj1908 said:

Lesgue as a name is a curse lol

😀

Oh the standard has fallen so far.  These guys used to amuse me.

to be fair he said that the word "Rugby" was a curse without the word "league".. not that "league" was a curse. 

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46 minutes ago, RP London said:

to be fair he said that the word "Rugby" was a curse without the word "league".. not that "league" was a curse. 

His post implied we should get rid of the rugby. 

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29 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

His post implied we should get rid of the rugby. 

Yes, which is said quite a lot on these forums by people both ardent league fans and trolls. 

Your post, however, implied his issue was with the word "league" which is incorrect. 

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13 minutes ago, RP London said:

Yes, which is said quite a lot on these forums by people both ardent league fans and trolls. 

Your post, however, implied his issue was with the word "league" which is incorrect. 

Semantics buddy and you know it 

I probably shouldve put the word.rugby instead but he still comes across as I said 

Also coupled with the low post count 

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Im from NZ and ive only briefly visited London & Edinburgh/Glasgow in the UK 5 years ago... really like to know more about the foot print of the game in the North of England. Is the game only popular in the towns and cities of the North where the well know Super League and Championship Clubs are? In Northern cities and towns of Lancashire, Yorkshire, Cumbria, Cheshire, Northern Lincolnshire and the North East that are not currently represented in Super League or the Championship like Runcorn, Chester, Preston, Lancaster, Morecambe, Blackpool, Carlisle, Scarborough, Middlesbrough, Grimsby, Scunthorpe, Rotherham, etc ? I know some of these places once had pro sides but whats the current level of awareness of the game in these areas, amateur participation, what level of causal support exists that for example would pay attention to the Super League grand final result or Ashes Series or World Cup?

 

Edited by kiwis 13 6

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5 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Semantics buddy and you know it 

I probably shouldve put the word.rugby instead but he still comes across as I said 

Also coupled with the low post count 

its not semantics at all its basic literacy, reading and comprehension!.. he clearly points out his problem is with the word "Rugby" and not the word "league".. 

I had a low post count once too as did you... he does have a point.. 

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9 minutes ago, RP London said:

its not semantics at all its basic literacy, reading and comprehension!.. he clearly points out his problem is with the word "Rugby" and not the word "league".. 

I had a low post count once too as did you... he does have a point.. 

Nah the name of the game is fine 

 

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On 12/02/2020 at 02:31, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Which countries have a higher profile of League than Union?

I'd say Australia and PNG, that's about it at this point.

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On 11/02/2020 at 14:51, unapologetic pedant said:

I completely agree. There is far more potential for us in Brazil than Argentina, more in Greece than Italy. Also, we should be more particular in all territories about terminology. The word "Rugby" unaccompanied by the word "League" is a curse. The Kelsey Gentles tackle on Tiana Penitani clip currently has over 56 million views on the women`s RL Facebook page. It`s clear from reading the comments though, that most people think they`re watching "Rugby" not specifically Rugby League. Hence the consequence will be to raise the profile of Rugby Union. Why would any enterprise in its promotion use a word which makes most people around the world think of something else? Pepsi-cola would never stress the word "cola" over the word "Pepsi" in their marketing.

Brazil is also a much bigger country than Argentina, and Brazilian broadcasters pay a lot in rights fees to put soccer on TV so Brazil is probably the better of the two from a commercial point of view.

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4 hours ago, aj1908 said:

Nah the name of the game is fine 

 

Just for the record the low post count is due to being an ageing technophobe who only recently worked out how to register. I agree the name Rugby League Football is fine. I do not advocate changing it. But this thread was about expansion, and when we colloquially shorten the name to "Rugby" we make most of the people we are trying to reach think of Rugby Union. There are also substantive reasons, beyond name recognition, to be more careful in the terms we use. Seeing League through a Union prism is often the best route to misunderstanding key aspects of League like our ruck and limited possession (where we have more in common with American Football than Union). Many Union fans display a breathtaking ignorance of League. I once heard DJ and Union fan "whispering" Bob Harris say he couldn`t see any appeal in RL because the game stopped every few seconds and the ball was so little in play. After a spell of reeling it dawned on me that he must regard the PTB as a tap-penalty.

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3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Just for the record the low post count is due to being an ageing technophobe who only recently worked out how to register. I agree the name Rugby League Football is fine. I do not advocate changing it. But this thread was about expansion, and when we colloquially shorten the name to "Rugby" we make most of the people we are trying to reach think of Rugby Union. There are also substantive reasons, beyond name recognition, to be more careful in the terms we use. Seeing League through a Union prism is often the best route to misunderstanding key aspects of League like our ruck and limited possession (where we have more in common with American Football than Union). Many Union fans display a breathtaking ignorance of League. I once heard DJ and Union fan "whispering" Bob Harris say he couldn`t see any appeal in RL because the game stopped every few seconds and the ball was so little in play. After a spell of reeling it dawned on me that he must regard the PTB as a tap-penalty.

The PTB is a restart so it's not an unreasonable conclusion provided you really are prepared to look through that RU prism objectively.

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8 minutes ago, RMBJ said:

The PTB is a restart so it's not an unreasonable conclusion provided you really are prepared to look through that RU prism objectively.

In theory , yes it is

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