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Mr Plow

The England Brand

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35 minutes ago, Bolton Leyther said:

They associate it with the British and Irish Lions rugby union team. If we have to have an identity, we should have something uniquely ours.

What truly unique to rugby league that you can associate with England? Problem is it’s only the last 20-25 years that we’ve prioritised England over GB. England has never had a strong identity because it’s always been GB

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18 minutes ago, Bolton Leyther said:

They are amongst casual sports enthusiasts, though. "The Three Lions" is football, "The Lions" is the Great Britain and Ireland rugby union feam.

This thread is about branding and identity. From a marketing prerspective it's important to have something that's distinct (it's why we now have Wigan Warriors and Leeds Rhinos rather than simply Wigan and Leeds). Do a Google Search for "The Lions" and "Lions Tour" and check the first results. 

Googling those things will obviously bring up RU based results.

All I’m saying is that it would be a valid thing to do, should they want to include a lion (or 3) on the England RL kit. 

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Just call them England Lions and add a bit of blue. I doubt Scotland, Wales and Ireland will care much. Not like other England rep teams don't use blue.

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I repeatedly hear Australians (via podcasts, videos etc) referring to the GB team as "England". That might suggest that the GB branding was a bit of a joke. 

If you look at the kiwis (Black with a white double vee) and the kangaroos (green with gold double vee) then are they not best to go with England playing in white with a red double vee?  They did in the 90s when Wales beat them i am pretty sure?

I have read on here that the reason they dont is because of similarities with St Helens.  Seriously? Is the Rugby League community around the M62 really that small minded?? 

Incidentally... "The wall of white" 😂 WTF were they thinking?

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Rugby League: Alive and Handling

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15 minutes ago, RMBJ said:

Instead of the flag of St. George being the England logo, why not make it St. George himself?

Even better, the team could play in suits of armour. Like ye knights of old

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Like the poster above I do not like all white or predominantly white shirts. They just look dull

The English flag is red and white so they are basically the colours we have to work with

What about red with a double white V. 

Alternatively lets go radical and do a Croatia football red and white chequers

Alternatively again the red and white cross of St George and then as the Union barbarians do let the players wear their own club socks

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image.png.552f44de52a7d3da45148944bd95decb.png

 

England football kit circa 1982
 

image.thumb.png.7e1d26cbcc09dbe0de1757c694c78315.png

England football kit 1970. Simple and classic, ditto Brazil which never changes - for a reason. 

Edited by Johnoco

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12 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Googling those things will obviously bring up RU based results.

All I’m saying is that it would be a valid thing to do, should they want to include a lion (or 3) on the England RL kit. 

This is a good point. Perhaps a Lion logo could be used and a different nickname based on a Lion could be used to provide a point of difference.

I can only think of England 'Kings' (of the Jungle) or 'Pride' which would probably see the team buried even deeper under other google results. May be something there though.

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8 hours ago, jim_57 said:

This is a good point. Perhaps a Lion logo could be used and a different nickname based on a Lion could be used to provide a point of difference.

I can only think of England 'Kings' (of the Jungle) or 'Pride' which would probably see the team buried even deeper under other google results. May be something there though.

Building a brand can be a complex process primarily developed from an understanding of how behavioural psychology works. Advertising agencies spend £billions of their clients money on campaigns that overwhelmingly either fail to register or actually instill a negative connotation rather than a positive one. 

A book called Creative Mischief by Dave Trott gives a great insight into brand building and the fallacy of market research into finding out what people want - and that would definitely include asking people's opinions in here! Henry Ford once said, "If I'd stopped to ask what people wanted they'd have said 'faster horses'". 

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What’s the lion’s relation to England? It’s an animal native to Africa. Shouldn’t your sports teams have foxes or whatever it is that is native to England? Typical English pillaging from others 

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5 minutes ago, Boomer Bang Wool said:

What’s the lion’s relation to England? It’s an animal native to Africa. Shouldn’t your sports teams have foxes or whatever it is that is native to England? Typical English pillaging from others 

It was introduced by the Plantagenet kings in the 1100’s. These guys were French, so blame them. 

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On 09/02/2020 at 19:00, headtackle said:

The English flag is red and white so they are basically the colours we have to work with

What about red with a double white V. 

There was a red alternative away shirt the other year (World Cup year?), but I guess as the main shirt it might get a little mixed up with the RU Lions and the Welsh. 

White with a double red chevron works for me if it is considered too controversial for England to wear a red & blue chevron and sack off the GB brand once and for all. 

On 09/02/2020 at 11:52, Tommygilf said:

If it was up to me I'd have taken the Gold GB lion badge and made it Red for England.

Great shout, that. 

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Having a sponsor on an international shirt is rubbish, nothing is scared any more. White shirt and shorts with a subtle red trim (I love chevrons but not on England’s shirt as it would look like a Saints shirt) and red socks with no sponsor would be decent. 

Edited by Eddie

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11 hours ago, Johnoco said:

It was introduced by the Plantagenet kings in the 1100’s. These guys were French, so blame them. 

You mean the Angevins? 

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3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You mean the Angevins? 

I always thought it was the Plantagenet mob? Off the top of my head, these are the bunch that ended with Richard III? Happy to be corrected 

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44 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I always thought it was the Plantagenet mob? Off the top of my head, these are the bunch that ended with Richard III? Happy to be corrected 

They're the same essentially. Stopped calling themselves the House of Anjou (Angevin) after they lost 90% of their land in France. Most of the stuff I've ever worked on works up to John as the last Angevin and his son Henry III being the first Plantagenet.

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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

I always thought it was the Plantagenet mob? Off the top of my head, these are the bunch that ended with Richard III? Happy to be corrected 

Yeah I was being a #####, as I recall the Plantagenets were actually called the Angevins (of Anjou) but wore a sprig of heather (or something similar) as their badge and the word Plantagenet was derived from that, so it wasn’t actually their family name at all (though of course you were right).  Though I might be completely mistaken, it certainly wouldn’t be the first time!

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

They're the same essentially. Stopped calling themselves the House of Anjou (Angevin) after they lost 90% of their land in France. Most of the stuff I've ever worked on works up to John as the last Angevin and his son Henry III being the first Plantagenet.

Sorry just seen this much more erudite response. I guess after John you’d want to change the name of your dynasty. 

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40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Sorry just seen this much more erudite response. I guess after John you’d want to change the name of your dynasty. 

Haha thanks. Tbf what you said is right afaik about the origins and the revival Plantagenet name may have been a retrospective action anyway by the Yorkists legitimizing an old nickname to further legitimise themselves iirc. Nicknames, surnames and place names in the middle ages seem a bit muddled. Not my area of expertise particularly!

 

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On 09/02/2020 at 10:15, Bert1 said:

I’d have the GB lions logo but in red on one side and a coat of arms on the other. White shirt and shorts with dark socks with white tops. Our kits look like that 2007 union strip which looked like sports direct job.

what you said you want is the traditional England RU kit... maybe less sports direct but very much more Union.

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