Derek Beaumont accuses delay tactics being set to prevent Championship return

[Angelic Cynic]

6 hours ago, Sainthamish said:

It isn't necessarily increasing in the north west.  There was a lot made of the R number being greater than 1 for the north west but, that is based on a prediction not real data.  The margin of error in that prediction is quite large.  Other scientists working on the R number prediction predicted lower R numbers for the region.  In addition, active cases are low now so fluctuations in the number of positive cases have a big impact on the R number.

Other countries ahead of us in the pandemic have only had a blip for a second wave and the virus has faded away.  I reckon it's likely we'll head the same way.

  South Korea - who seem the best when it comes to the most recent problems ie Sars and the other one have had a second 'wave' and Japan,who prevented cases and deaths have also had a second 'wave'.

  It hasn't gone away.Those countries were active before Europe.

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52807255

  My fear is that it messes up next year.

[Robthegasman]

22 minutes ago, SL17 said:

I just guess the majority of clubs don’t have the balls to resume.

Good luck in your furloughed positions.

Unfortunately to resume playing for the vast majority of Championship and Championship 1 clubs simply is not financially feasible without gate money.

It is not a case of clubs not having the balls to resume.

I sure deep down they want to.But to do so will see them run at huge losses financially. 

[Robthegasman]

5 hours ago, SL17 said:

Then good luck to them come August,September,October and November.

Also you are saying the sport can’t run without gate money but can run in SL?

Why can it run in SL? 
 

Once furloughing ends. Where are the funds coming from?

 

Cant wait to see the excuses. 

I am if you look at my comments see that I am talking about Championship and Championship 1 clubs only.

 And yes I am basically saying that without gate money it is not unfortunately financially feasible for them to resume as there is no doubt if it did resume it would be behind closed doors.The central funding which is all they would get  simply would not be enough to cover players salaries and other running costs including I might add the extra costs of privately testing the players maybe twice a week for Coronavirus. And those costs would be let’s say in excess of £25K per month.

You ask why clubs can do it in Super League....well they get short of £2m per season from central funding.Championship and Championship 1 clubs get a pittance in comparison.

I get what you say about what will happen when furlough ends. And yes that is going to be a big problem,I agree with you on that. And as to where the funds will come from that is going to be a very big issue and problem.

And as of yet I don’t think we know the answer.

[Sainthamish]

10 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  South Korea - who seem the best when it comes to the most recent problems ie Sars and the other one have had a second 'wave' and Japan,who prevented cases and deaths have also had a second 'wave'.

  It hasn't gone away.Those countries were active before Europe.

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52807255

  My fear is that it messes up next year.

You say a second wave but, if you look at their number of cases these second waves are blips, as I said in my post.  For example, South Korea's maximum daily number of cases was 1062 back in March (significantly lower than here and lower than our current daily cases) and the maximum daily number of cases in this second wave is 79 (27th May). Google Covid-19 cases in South Korea (and also Japan) to check the numbers. As you say though, it hasn't gone away but, has remained fairly low.

[Sainthamish]

13 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Previously he was claiming that some clubs were making a profit.

Toys out of the pram!

If you think about it though in respect to the championship, some clubs could well turn a profit if the season is canned. In particular those who don't own their own stadium.

Incomings - Sky money (isn't it something in the region of £150k to £750k depending on last season league position), season tickets and sponsorship (a number of spectators on here have said they don't want a season ticket refund)

Outgoings- stadium hire for a few games, coach hire for a few games and 20% of your players and staff wages (for the bulk of the season).

Personally, I think if the season is pulled then clubs should refund season tickets and sponsorship even if the fans want to club to keep the money.  It would keep good faith between the club and the fans & sponsors ahead of next season. Plus, it would be unethical for any Directors to take payment from any profits if the club doesn't refund this money.

For clubs that own their own grounds then there is the additional outgoings on the costs associated with that or clubs that have paid their stadium hire in full for the season. Then these clubs would be less likely to turn a profit.

[Rupert Prince]

On 08/06/2020 at 04:13, nadera78 said:

Can we not go one week without Beaumont shouting his mouth off?

He does sound like a annoying person.

[Rupert Prince]

20 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

I think we all know that there will not be 37 professional/semi professional senior clubs post 2021.

I think there will be a maximum of either 20 or 24 professional/semi professional clubs which will see a lot of current clubs not make the grade,whatever criteria is set.

 I think we will see a mixture of mergers and club rebrands.

 It is just my personal opinion of what is coming. And I am not saying clubs should or should not merge.That is a matter for others to decide such as directors,chairmen and their fans to decide.

I do agree There are too many pro semi pro teams.  

It seems that it's being organised that there will be just a few venues when the game starts up, with many clubs giving up home advantage.  This surely negates relegation and promotion?

[Harry Stottle]

20 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

I think we all know that there will not be 37 professional/semi professional senior clubs post 2021.

I think there will be a maximum of either 20 or 24 professional/semi professional clubs which will see a lot of current clubs not make the grade,whatever criteria is set.

 I think we will see a mixture of mergers and club rebrands.

 It is just my personal opinion of what is coming. And I am not saying clubs should or should not merge.That is a matter for others to decide such as directors,chairmen and their fans to decide.

 

Hi Rob, sorry re the delay,  and thanks for your response.

I can see from your coments on this discussion that the financial situation of clubs in the Championship and L1 is your utmost concern why they should not restart without the added benefits of spectator's being allowed into the grounds. But you went on to say "that we all know there would be changes and they would be unpopular for some". As you state the answers you have given are "just my personal opinion" nothing wrong in that whatsoever that is what this platform is all about. If I may I will answer your points.

1. You see a reduction in the present number of clubs Post 2021? Is that because you see the pandemic lasting much longer to have its full effect.
2. Your estimations are 13 to 17 clubs will be no longer in existance for the start of the 2022 season, are you including present SL clubs in your estimations if so who do see as vulnerable? How have you arrived at these figures.
3. Mergers and Rebrands, the suggestion didn't work before those who were highlighted to join forces completely dismissed the notion, those being both the boardrooms and the fans of the clubs concerned .If mergers did happen it would have to be 'near neighbour's' for it to work but to many fan's their nearest is far from their dearest, comments last time were more of "not over my dead body" and the Chairmen/Owners/CEO's in the main is the local guy made good the reason he is putting his money in is because he has that affinity with his team and town, why do you consider it mergers could work in the future?

I must say you completely threw me with your response to my question but nevertheless they are good discussion points, I was expecting you to say what was coming was a closed shop with very little funding if any at all heading south below SL, that would really be unpopular to some and if it did come about I will agree that we will see a reduction from the present 37 clubs, I believe strongly that fan's of those clubs with ambition such as Fev, Leigh, Bradford etc, would say what is the point, having experienced the last closed shop I would choose not to be a part of it once more I would simply stop going, I can't see the relevance of striving to be the best in your division without reward, and equally I don't think clubs should be rewarded who have prooved to be the worst performer results wise in their division, and another point is as I already eluded to those local guys who made good and finance their clubs are people with ambition that is how they made their money, if the opportunity to be promoted is removed then they can't realise that ambition and coud walk away, I know I would. And I don't think it would stop there, in time with interest in the local pro club diminishing even possibly  vanishing that would also effect any community clubs in the town.

Now that would definatley proove unpopular for some!

[Harry Stottle]

41 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

He does sound like a annoying person.

Morning Princey, from your previous comments on the subject I recall that you are very much in favour of a stand alone SL, the best time that could be effected is with a new TV contract in 2022, that being so the incumbants in SL at the end of the 2021 season would most likely be the one's granted a position.

Question, do you think that Mr Beaumont know's something those who criticise him don't and plans are in place to effect a closed shop, do you consider that is why he has speculated on buying a squad to challenge this season for the available promotion spot and that is why he keeps striving for P&R to be maintained?

If we do revert back again to licensing or whatever it is called, would he be more annoying or self centered than any SL owner who would vote for a closed shop, especially those clubs who would/could not survive without the appropiate funding heading their way?

[Rupert Prince]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Morning Princey, from you previous comments on the subject I recall that you are very much in favour of a stand alone SL, the best time that could be effected is with a new TV contract in 2022, that being so the incumbants in SL at the end of the 2021 season would most likely be the one's granted a position.

Question, do you think that Mr Beaumont know's something those who criticise him don't and plans are in place to effect a closed shop, do you consider that is why he has speculated on buying a squad to challenge this season for the available promotion spot and that is why he keeps striving for P&R to be maintained?

If we do revert back again to licensing or whatever it is called, would he be more annoying or self centered than any SL owner who would vote for a closed shop, especially those clubs who would/could not survive without the appropiate funding heading their way?

I think it's unrealistic to expect relegation this season and frankly I do not see it being the same for promotion. 

Beyond that it's up to the Championship and D1 clubs to decide if they want to play on or close the season.

BTW, I do think it's a bit pompous to talk about "The Championship" (ditto the football crowd) ... At the least it ought to be Championship D1 & D2.  But I think irrespective of "black swan events"  the reality is going to turn most semi pro teams amateur or "open".

[del capo]

6 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

I think it's unrealistic to expect relegation this season and frankly I do not see it being the same for promotion. 

Beyond that it's up to the Championship and D1 clubs to decide if they want to play on or close the season.

BTW, I do think it's a bit pompous to talk about "The Championship" (ditto the football crowd) ... At the least it ought to be Championship D1 & D2.  But I think irrespective of "black swan events"  the reality is going to turn most semi pro teams amateur or "open".

Not too sure about your reality check Rupert . I think they will muddle through in the usual RL way.

But if you are right and they go amateur or open , who will organise them and  in what structure do you think they will play ?

Last time round most of them crashed and burned in the NCL

[Harry Stottle]

34 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

I think it's unrealistic to expect relegation this season and frankly I do not see it being the same for promotion. 

Beyond that it's up to the Championship and D1 clubs to decide if they want to play on or close the season.

BTW, I do think it's a bit pompous to talk about "The Championship" (ditto the football crowd) ... At the least it ought to be Championship D1 & D2.  But I think irrespective of "black swan events"  the reality is going to turn most semi pro teams amateur or "open".

Are you a politician Princey? 

You made a comment, I asked a question and you have completely avioded answering it and swerved around it sideways.

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Are you a politician Princey? 

You made a comment, I asked a question and you have completely avioded answering it and swerved around it sideways.

No... obviously I'm not a politician. I am not negotiating or debating.

I've clarified my point. Beaumont is angling to keep the comp going in order to win promotion in a hugely changed position.

I don't care what the Championship does ... it's up to them. But relegation seems massively unfair. 

To be honest I do not want to go much beyond that on this thread.  I admit I've touched on black swan events, but I'm not fishing for replies.  Nameing divisions is an irrelevance that's true, but again i am not fishing.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

I sometimes feel promotion/relegation is overshadowing way too much of tje conversation 

I'm a Broncos fan so I have at least as much aspiration to get back in SL as any other team fan. 

However, even if it meant a limited number of games this year competing for the Champ title only then I'd be up for it. I just want to watch rugby on a Sunday

I can't see why this couldn't even be restricted to the teams that want to/ can play 

How about a say 8 game competition with a subsequent finals format to win a cup.... Hold it from October to Xmas so hopefully can have crowds and do the final on boxing day for a bumper crowd

The rugby itself is the thing! 

[Gooleboy]

7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

P+R overshadows everything. To the point clubs arguing for a return will argue the other way if it doesn't happen.

Beaumonts comments and those of Campbell today show it is the be all and end all lower league RL. If you arent being promoted there is no point playing and your games are pointless.

This ignores the fact that most teams in the championship arent going to be promoted and we are left with people arguing that it has to be retained the season has to be completed even if its damaging to SL and damaging to many championship clubs 

Scrap the season for all Divisions then?

[Hela Wigmen]

29 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I sometimes feel promotion/relegation is overshadowing way too much of tje conversation 

I'm a Broncos fan so I have at least as much aspiration to get back in SL as any other team fan. 

However, even if it meant a limited number of games this year competing for the Champ title only then I'd be up for it. I just want to watch rugby on a Sunday

I can't see why this couldn't even be restricted to the teams that want to/ can play 

How about a say 8 game competition with a subsequent finals format to win a cup.... Hold it from October to Xmas so hopefully can have crowds and do the final on boxing day for a bumper crowd

The rugby itself is the thing! 

Does that not ruin any integrity of a league structure though if we’re saying that 4-5 clubs can play each other and everyone else in the same league can’t? 

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

Not too sure about your reality check Rupert . I think they will muddle through in the usual RL way.

But if you are right and they go amateur or open , who will organise them and  in what structure do you think they will play ?

Last time round most of them crashed and burned in the NCL

OK. I've mentioned "open".

The strongest clubs who are not full time but sustainable i think should be deemed "open" in a way that the cricket leagues were or are amateur and had or have a professional(s).  By open, other amateurs did not lose their status if playing with professionals (if that matters). Maybe a cap or limit, according to available funds. Whatever.

A certain level, or benchmark, could evolve to sustain a 2nd tier. Regional?

But frankly, it's an opinion.  What we do not have are any coherent plans for the future from anywhere.  Simply we are a joke... adrift.  At least seaweed will know it will end up in the Sargasso Sea... 

[Hela Wigmen]

17 minutes ago, SL17 said:

The question? is can't or wont?

Who knows but I don’t feel comfortable with some teams doing their own thing. I’m more “all or nothing” but then again, I’m not averse with the club finances at that level. 

[dkw]

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[dkw]

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[dkw]

45 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Does that not ruin any integrity of a league structure though if we’re saying that 4-5 clubs can play each other and everyone else in the same league can’t? 

Theres no thought towards the integrity of the league structure involved here, or morals. Its all about one man who has invested in his club now seeing a that investment going down the toilet. He and the likes of SL17 couldnt care less if the "pub teams" go under due to all this, which is odd as its not that long ago there were buckets going round grounds to save their ass.

[Hela Wigmen]

16 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Then the clubs who feel they can't start again or waiting for the hand that feeds as way out of it also isn't an answer. The word "Innovation" isn't in lockdown.

The preservation of clubs is of far greater importance than the thoughts and feelings of 3-4 chairmen, IMHO. 

There’s no right way to go with the Championship. Some feel they cannot re-start without spectators and others seemingly feel they cannot re-start if promotion isn’t assured, despite their being no assurances they’d even win it anyway. How do you appease both sides of the fence? I’m not sure. 

 

[dkw]

4 minutes ago, SL17 said:

So are you saying no other person invests in their own club? Are you looking at the bigger picture or just stuck in your own domain? Again how will clubs survive August,September October and November. Who is going to save their asses?

Your living in a dream world pal.

How will clubs survive playing in front of no crowd, while paying players, coaches, rent, utilities, insurance and countless other bills?

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Its innovation. Something you may need to Google.

So what innovation will help those clubs that dont have a rich investor? 

[dkw]

6 minutes ago, SL17 said:

You have had 12 weeks to find the answers.. You tell me.

No come on, you seem to have all the answers. My club are doing all they can to stay afloat at the moment, if they were forced to start playing in front of no paying customers then it will kill them, and I`m certain thats the same for many other clubs in the championship and league 1. If its just so easy to find these innovations then why havent any of them, or are they just not as clever as some pleb posting pathetic drunken ramblings on an internet forum.