Championship clubs still in deadlock

[Blind side johnny]

3 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

What’s the margin after costs on food ale etc, it’s not great with poor crowds and no away support. Pubs are open next week, yet we can’t open grounds with controlled capacity? It won’t be long, let’s plan now. Championship can run to Xmas and start a month later

Sorry SC, first you throw in your back of a fag packet calculation then start quibbling about margins on additional income. Just say "let's get open, no matter what" then you wouldn't need to dress it up as a reasoned argument.

[sweaty craiq]

1 minute ago, Blind side johnny said:

Sorry SC, first you throw in your back of a fag packet calculation then start quibbling about margins on additional income. Just say "let's get open, no matter what" then you wouldn't need to dress it up as a reasoned argument.

That’s RL mentality, turnover equals profit. Some great suppliers there BSJ giving you food and ale and utensils and merchandise for nothing.

we should be constantly asking how we can do, poor little RL fans spend too much time thinking about the opposite

[sweaty craiq]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Because the point of the lower league is positioned solely as P+R. 

So when promotion isnt on offer, whether through the structure or through performance 'all interest dies' which leaves huge amounts of championship RL apparently utterly pointless.

In this circumstance it massively limits the options the lower leagues have because the criteria isnt to be able to put on an attractive and compelling competition to attract fans. Whether that happens or not is entirely irrelevant. 

The one and only reason is promotion. Nothing else matters 

The reality is only a few clubs target promotion, more target avoid relegation. Fans/sponsors need to see something worth playing for to attend in numbers. The reintroduction of P&R and my clubs vision led to huge increases in gates and sponsorship

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

What’s the margin after costs on food ale etc, it’s not great with poor crowds and no away support. Pubs are open next week, yet we can’t open grounds with controlled capacity? It won’t be long, let’s plan now. Championship can run to Xmas and start a month later

Do you really want Leigh to confirm promotion to Super League at the end of December, and have to assemble a squad to compete in Super League starting in early February?

[Griff]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Because the point of the lower league is positioned solely as P+R. 

So when promotion isnt on offer, whether through the structure or through performance 'all interest dies' which leaves huge amounts of championship RL apparently utterly pointless.

In this circumstance it massively limits the options the lower leagues have because the criteria isnt to be able to put on an attractive and compelling competition to attract fans. Whether that happens or not is entirely irrelevant. 

The one and only reason is promotion. Nothing else matters 

OK - well, that's a view.

But it seems to me that the lower leagues aren't looking to put any sort of competition on in 2020.  Let alone an "attractive and compelling one".

[Griff]

2 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

What happens to an employee whose industry is working if they don’t want to go in

Well, they're certainly not rounded up and herded in to work.

It's already been decided that players have to opt in.  There'll be no compulsion.

 

 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Chuck in bars, food, lotteries, club shop sponsored boxes etc and the number does grow. Then factor in testing costs, changes to toilet facilities, properly separated changing rooms and the gap really widens.

I am desperate to get back to watching live RL again at our place but the challenges are still considerable.

How can you charge sponsors money for games they can't go to ?

No doubt clubs will already feel obligated to put sponsors names on the 2021 kit, bearing in mind they've had no exposure for their money in 2020.

Every time you turn over a stone, there's a problem underneath.

Luckily, we don't have a lot of RL support in LIverpool, Brighton, Brixton and Bournemouth or we could be looking at another lockdown come next March.

[The Blues Ox]

6 minutes ago, Griff said:

How can you charge sponsors money for games they can't go to ?

No doubt clubs will already feel obligated to put sponsors names on the 2021 kit, bearing in mind they've had no exposure for their money in 2020.

Every time you turn over a stone, there's a problem underneath.

Luckily, we don't have a lot of RL support in LIverpool, Brighton, Brixton and Bournemouth or we could be looking at another lockdown come next March.

It will be the loss of sponsorship money for boxes, dining etc. Not a chance most of the clubs could afford to give away sporsorship for 2021 as a good will gesture. 

[Griff]

10 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

It will be the loss of sponsorship money for boxes, dining etc. Not a chance most of the clubs could afford to give away sporsorship for 2021 as a good will gesture. 

Well, good luck getting repeat business from your 2020 sponsors if that's your attitude.

Let's hope they realise that this is no-one's fault and that they're still wealthy enough to sponsor the club.

You say clubs can't afford to give away sponsorship but the bigger problem is likely to be finding a sponsor with some spare cash.

There's tough work ahead for any commercial managers and I, for one, wouldn't fancy their jobs.

[John Rhino]

On 26/06/2020 at 17:32, GUBRATS said:

I'd suggest don't play RL at all then 

I agree. Not this year anyway for part time players 

[paulwalker71]

45 minutes ago, Griff said:

You say clubs can't afford to give away sponsorship but the bigger problem is likely to be finding a sponsor with some spare cash.

There's tough work ahead for any commercial managers and I, for one, wouldn't fancy their jobs.

This is a good point, and something that I suspect all sporting clubs are going to find challenging in the post-COVID world.

When many businesses are struggling to survive, making staff redundant and having find new ways to keep afloat, how many are going to have 'spare' money to sponsor sports teams?

[ATLANTISMAN]

38 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

This is a good point, and something that I suspect all sporting clubs are going to find challenging in the post-COVID world.

When many businesses are struggling to survive, making staff redundant and having find new ways to keep afloat, how many are going to have 'spare' money to sponsor sports teams?

Sadly you are both right its bloody tough out there at present budgets are being cut left right and centre .

The annoying thing is that the companies that are doing really really well out of this are hoarding cash.

SUPERMARKETS/AMAZON/NETFLIX etc the supermarkets have a poor record of sponsoring sport in this country MORRISONS would have been a shoe in over the years for a Rugby League sponsorship at a decent level, I once met a senior marketing person from them at a WCC match in Huddersfield years ago if my memory serves me correct it was Bradford Bulls v Penrith Panthers anyway I asked the Q to the said person why doesn't Morrisons sponsor RL and the reply was no chance of old man Morrison spending a penny he even counts the toilet paper:)

 

P 

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

That’s RL mentality, turnover equals profit. Some great suppliers there BSJ giving you food and ale and utensils and merchandise for nothing.

we should be constantly asking how we can do, poor little RL fans spend too much time thinking about the opposite

I do love being patronised on here by you SC. You never reflect upon your own original comment do you?

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

Well, good luck getting repeat business from your 2020 sponsors if that's your attitude.

Let's hope they realise that this is no-one's fault and that they're still wealthy enough to sponsor the club.

You say clubs can't afford to give away sponsorship but the bigger problem is likely to be finding a sponsor with some spare cash.

There's tough work ahead for any commercial managers and I, for one, wouldn't fancy their jobs.

For the smaller clubs who operate at a more community-based level the majority of sponsors don't anticipate any real commercial benefit from their support. Often their businesses are embedded within these communities and, if they are able (moot point) are already being supportive about 2021, I hear.

[DOGFATHER]

10 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Here’s a fag packet income from a game for a club with 600 home fans - 300 on season tickets = 0, 100 @£20, 100@£14 and 100 kids comps. £2850 plus vat so they lose 30k with no gates £30k, surely they have enough from fans sponsors and owners to cover that plus crowds will be back by september

Even using your fag packet figures, it doesn't add up. Some clubs take almost as much from the bars, boxes and food outlets as they do through the turnstiles on match days.

If the clubs that are trying to avoid relegation could afford to simply write off circa £50k inclusive of the other revenue streams you failed to include, surely they would have signed one, or a couple of better players with it, to give them a better chance of achieving their goal and maybe challenge for a playoff place?

That is also before you factor in the other £50k required for testing players twice a week for 10 weeks. Suddenly you are looking at simply writing off income that equates to a significant proportion of the entire annual playing budgets for the bottom half of the table. 

Widnes were recently bailed out financially, Bradford are likely to see a reduction in attendances due to the move to Dewsbury, could these clubs or Featherstone afford to write off £100k just like that? If they had that sort of cash to simply forget about, surely they would have spent it on the current squad too, to aid their push for promotion and guaranteed funding after the next tv deal is announced?

 

[DOGFATHER]

10 minutes ago, SL17 said:

So your answer is to write off a whole season for the sake of a month!

Excuse my ignorance, I don't understand what you mean.

[Ackroman]

7 hours ago, SL17 said:

So your answer is to write off a whole season for the sake of a month!

Forget Covid 19 the guidance is one meter plus from next week. 
 

Guidance dear fellow not legislation.

Most posters recognise that the season is irrelevant. For the long term prospects of RL as a community game we need to show patience.

Or we throw most of the hard work done by volunteers and altruistic community leaders under the bus to give a few narcicists their way.

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Do you really want Leigh to confirm promotion to Super League at the end of December, and have to assemble a squad to compete in Super League starting in early February?

Yes, would you not like your club to recieve 2M in funding?

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes, would you not like your club to recieve 2M in funding?

Its going to be more like 1.5 with the reductions agreed with Sky H, but his point is that its difficult enough for a promoted team with 4 months preparation and recruitment.

[paulwalker71]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes, would you not like your club to recieve 2M in funding?

Not really Harry

I don't want the Bulls to be promoted right now, even with the 'carrot' of the funding. 

Didn't you learn anything from your last SL experience? Even getting promoted in October meant paying over the odds for players that weren't worth the money. That left you in the sticky stuff when you were relegated and had a bunch of disinterested players in the Championship.

Getting promoted in December would only make that ten times worse! 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Its going to be more like 1.5 with the reductions agreed with Sky H, but his point is that its difficult enough for a promoted team with 4 months preparation and recruitment.

Yes I am quite aware of his point, but as I have said for a long time by the time a Championship team has secured promotion and they are in a position to 'speculate' on its playing roster, most player's are already tied up/contracted with clubs for the following season, want an example, even with the wealth of TWP in which we are informed money is no problem they found that the shelves were bare, so as I say get promotion and take the money. 

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Not really Harry

I don't want the Bulls to be promoted right now, even with the 'carrot' of the funding. 

Didn't you learn anything from your last SL experience? Even getting promoted in October meant paying over the odds for players that weren't worth the money. That left you in the sticky stuff when you were relegated and had a bunch of disinterested players in the Championship.

Getting promoted in December would only make that ten times worse! 

I was answering Tommy when your reply popped up, but in the '17 season when we did go up and I will agree we spent to nuch on some players who should not have been worth what was paid, Leigh had really bad luck with injuries using 37 player's in the season,  but we are not one if the big fashionable clubs so that went unnoticed, in the early rounds we beat both Wire and Saints.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Yes I am quite aware of his point, but as I have said for a long time by the time a Championship team has secured promotion and they are in a position to 'speculate' on its playing roster, most player's are already tied up/contracted with clubs for the following season, want an example, even with the wealth of TWP in which we are informed money is no problem they found that the shelves were bare, so as I say get promotion and take the money. 

Thats a fair attitude I suppose, but I'm not sure its sustainable.

[paulwalker71]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes I am quite aware of his point, but as I have said for a long time by the time a Championship team has secured promotion and they are in a position to 'speculate' on its playing roster, most player's are already tied up/contracted with clubs for the following season, want an example, even with the wealth of TWP in which we are informed money is no problem they found that the shelves were bare, so as I say get promotion and take the money. 

So it seems that you want the Championship to start up - potentially bankrupting half of the clubs in this league - so that you can get promoted just so that you'll be able to bank £1.5 million... so that when you inevitably come bottom of SL 2021 and get relegated back to the Championship you'll have a decent nest egg of Sky money?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, paulwalker71 said:

So it seems that you want the Championship to start up - potentially bankrupting half of the clubs in this league - so that you can get promoted just so that you'll be able to bank £1.5 million... so that when you inevitably come bottom of SL 2021 and get relegated back to the Championship you'll have a decent nest egg of Sky money?

A nest egg that on top of an unprecedented half a million pound parachute payment still couldn't stop the club threatening to tear up contracts and nearly going bust at the end of the season.