RFL to scrap promotion and relegation

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is it, why defer the decision till the 23rd then? 

Something must have been brewing this thread was started by our leading trade paper unless they were sensationalising a headline with no substance, their source must have informed them that an announcement was imminent, I wonder what changed it?

Up until the tweet that I shared earlier in the thread was posted the RFL had intended to do this alongside announcing the other rule changes. At the 11th hour it seems there has been a decision to delay. That indicates to me that the Super League "no to relegation" debate has won and its now on the championship and league 1. 

Every club that I've seen have said they wanted to play this year. Those plans are almost entirely dependent on crowds, however, which makes them less likely.

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s interesting that certain lower league fans here are so dead set against a closed shop Super League but are advocating two tens. There’s thirty-seven clubs in the UK league system, what about the other seventeen? Or is it self-interest reining supreme, again?

P and R all through the pro structure is a must , simple as 

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Wouldn’t be that hard.

Give automatic licences to the nine clubs who have won the Super League, Challenge Cup and/or League Leaders Shield since 2000: Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Hull FC, Warrington, Castleford, Catalans, Huddersfield and Bradford.

Then perm however many you want from Toronto, Toulouse, London and Ottawa (with perhaps New York should that not be a pipe dream) using ‘Major City Expansion’ criteria to do with population or summat. 

I like this idea but can we take it back to 1998 please... no self interest from me at all. 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

100% this. We have seen time and again the double standards that some have, if it means their team is in the elite, when it comes to things like money, minimum standards and pulling up the drawbridge. They cant even see that the arguments that they want applied to the Championship on one hand are completely contradictory to the arguments they put up when it comes to their team being in Super League.

Ask them ?

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

So why haven’t they said so?

Not a clue LR, but if it is as clear cut you say it is why not announce it anyway, there has definitely something happened or been brought to the table to prevent the announcement.

We are obviously in much differing corners which may well be swaying our thoughts, hopes and aspirations. I most definitely want the opportunity to fight for promotion, opposite to you who I would imagine wants relegation consigned to the bin this season and understandably so.

[Hela Wigmen]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

P and R all through the pro structure is a must , simple as 

That’s an aside, no? Isn’t retaining the number of clubs we have of more importance? We’ve got people here decrying Super League as some money hungry organisation because their team is not making the hypothetical cut of 12-14 teams with the drawbridge pulled up and the same people pushing for a 20 team competition with the drawbridge pulled up, completely forgetting the other seventeen teams in the game. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

That’s an aside, no? Isn’t retaining the number of clubs we have of more importance? We’ve got people here decrying Super League as some money hungry organisation because their team is not making the hypothetical cut of 12-14 teams with the drawbridge pulled up and the same people pushing for a 20 team competition with the drawbridge pulled up, completely forgetting the other seventeen teams in the game. 

The double standards holds no bounds. As long as their club is on the right side of the drawbridge they don't care

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Up until the tweet that I shared earlier in the thread was posted the RFL had intended to do this alongside announcing the other rule changes. At the 11th hour it seems there has been a decision to delay. That indicates to me that the Super League "no to relegation" debate has won and its now on the championship and league 1. 

Every club that I've seen have said they wanted to play this year. Those plans are almost entirely dependent on crowds, however, which makes them less likely.

Nope I don't take it that way at all, if you read the BBC publication it says all decisions will be climaxed on the 23rd including P&R one week before the SL recommences.

[Harry Stottle]

36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That is true in the championship but it has been reinforced by at least half a decade of hugely lopsided funding too, which aught to be remembered.

I'm coming round to think more and more that the solution is going to rely on bigger clubs coming in to essentially displace those clubs at the bottom of Super League. Partly through our own dithering and total inability to broaden our horizons in England its increasingly likely that they will come from non-English areas too. The solution is basically the same for the championship too, bring in bigger clubs (either from below or relegated from above) and they'll displace what have been described as "pub teams".

On the Salary cap it works actually rather better in the championship than in Super League. The top clubs are able to be top clubs because they can spend significant sums but the middle/bottom clubs aren't totally out of reach - which is what a second division should be. An artificially even second division is pointless if you want p/r. In Super League the top clubs can easily spend to cap, pay less to better players and thus dominate other clubs that cannot use outside investment to improve their squads. To top it off the top clubs introduced a marquee player rule that allows them to use their extra wealth to show off their dominance. It's a myth that the top clubs dislike the low salary cap currently.

As I see it you have these groups of clubs in super league and in brackets those outside super league that could be similar.

Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Saints, Hull, Catalans. (Bradford, Toulouse). Undeniably big clubs with large fanbases and major corporate potential - basically don't need to make the case for inclusion under licensing.

Huddersfield, Toronto. (London, Newcastle, Ottawa) Growing clubs with significant investment from one individual capable of financially competing with the above after settling into Super League. Have attractive USPs in the case of licensing. 

Cas, Hull KR. (Widnes, Leigh). Solid clubs with solid fanbases but lacking serious investment to take them beyond mid table consistently. The championship two have much better stadiums than the SL two in this case but the SL two have the benefit of incumbency. 

Wakefield, Salford. (York, Fev, Donny, Sheffield, Halifax etc) Basically the same as the above only smaller. 

Square that circle I suppose. 

Lots of personal supposition without much substance to back it up regarding certain clubs Tommy.

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

The double standards holds no bounds. As long as their club is on the right side of the drawbridge they don't care

Wheres your club Damien? Is your attitude I can say what I want in the knowledge that it won't affect me? Anyone can make comment looking from the outside.

[Smudger06]

It sums up our sport when an undeniably big club is a tenant of Dewsbury.....

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Nope I don't take it that way at all, if you read the BBC publication it says all decisions will be climaxed on the 23rd including P&R one week before the SL recommences.

You're missing what I'm saying Harry. I'm saying the Super League clubs know they don't want relegation and have made that clear.

[Rupert Prince]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Why do you construe my question as moan? and it was you who said the monies available can only sustain a finite number of clubs!

OK so you seem to be saying selection should be by invitation, I will ask again who is going to do the inviting that will not be deemed a conflict of interest?

Those that can afford it. 

[Blind side johnny]

16 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Also says that still haven't actually finally confirmed the P&R issue?

Correct. You have read the RFL statement I trust?

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Smudger06 said:

It sums up our sport when an undeniably big club is a tenant of Dewsbury.....

And the most famous club on the planet is a lodger.

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Lots of personal supposition without much substance to back it up Tommy.

Tbf Harry you and several other fans have seen the suggestion of cancelling P/R for this covid season as a sign that licensing is returning and that Rugby League is doomed. 

When it comes to personal supposition without much substance it takes one to know one.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Wheres your club Damien? Is your attitude I can say what I want in the knowledge that it won't affect me? Anyone can make comment looking from the outside.

As I said as long as you are at the right side of that drawbridge Harry. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

Those that can afford it. 

Who are they then Princey?

[Blind side johnny]

16 hours ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

We all know the best scenario next season is to have 2 teams promoted next season and then one promoted and one relegated from then on. This gives us 27 games including magic with no dreaded loop games which invariably sees Wigan playing Warrington 5 times in a season. But of course they will never vote for this because their slice of the Sky cake would be smaller.

I don't think that "we all know" that by any means, especially those of us who might disagree.

Try again.

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Tbf Harry you and several other fans have seen the suggestion of cancelling P/R for this covid season as a sign that licensing is returning and that Rugby League is doomed. 

When it comes to personal supposition without much substance it takes one to know one.

Fair enough, I will take that on the chin.

BUT, in my defence I have the thoughts of those in high positions who are leaning towards a closed shop to consider.

[GUBRATS]

20 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

That’s an aside, no? Isn’t retaining the number of clubs we have of more importance? We’ve got people here decrying Super League as some money hungry organisation because their team is not making the hypothetical cut of 12-14 teams with the drawbridge pulled up and the same people pushing for a 20 team competition with the drawbridge pulled up, completely forgetting the other seventeen teams in the game. 

Which part of my simple post didn't you understand ?

[Hela Wigmen]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which part of my simple post didn't you understand ?

So, you’re in favour of keeping all 37 teams in the game? 

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, SL17 said:

They wouldn’t change the criteria. They would change the length of time for clubs to meet the criteria.

This is where it fails, as again they will be just going round in circles.

Uhm, that would be a change of criteria. But your point about going round in circles stands.

[Smudger06]

25 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

So, you’re in favour of keeping all 37 teams in the game? 

Ottawa Aces, 38. 

I think there's a line to be drawn at some point, not mustering more than 25 fans to your away games when travelling a short trip along the road is a sign your clubs finished. Been nowhere near capable of constistently attracting crowds approaching 1,000 (home & away total) to your home games is another sign. Half the Championship and almost all League 1 need to show signs of life. 

[Hela Wigmen]

15 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Ottawa Aces, 38. 

I think there's a line to be drawn at some point, not mustering more than 25 fans to your away games when travelling a short trip along the road is a sign your clubs finished. Been nowhere near capable of constistently attracting crowds approaching 1,000 (home & away total) to your home games is another sign. Half the Championship and almost all League 1 need to show signs of life. 

Any club relying on away fans needs liquidating, too.