The Daddy Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Still England's best full back and outside back by far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Modern full backs need to be both creative and a running threat and he ticks both those boxes. Definitely England's best full back for me. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravens88 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Modern full backs need to be both creative and a running threat and he ticks both those boxes. Definitely England's best full back for me. Can any Pie eater fan explain why Tomkins was allowed to leave Wigan Best FB in Super League and makes Catalans big time contenders to get to Old Trafford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 He will be 32 by the World Cup but should still be England's No.1. Best full back by far and one of the first players on the team sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I don’t know , Wane will probably pick him and we’re not that blessed , but he was largely average in the NRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, DavidM said: I don’t know , Wane will probably pick him and we’re not that blessed , but he was largely average in the NRL We have no one else. That is why he is one of the first selected. We have to have a ball playing threat as no.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I’m an unashamed huge fan of Tomkins. Obviously a very skilful player but very smart with it. Great rugby brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Scubby said: We have no one else Funny isn’t it , Australia have about 10. It’s the attacking position on the field now people want to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, DavidM said: Funny isn’t it , Australia have about 10. It’s the attacking position on the field now people want to play Australia could potentially field 6 full backs in the back line 1. Tedesco 2. Holmes 3. Trbojevic 4. Mitchell 5. Papenhuyzen 6. Ponga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, Scubby said: Australia could potentially field 6 full backs in the back line 1. Tedesco 2. Holmes 3. Trbojevic 4. Mitchell 5. Papenhuyzen 6. Ponga In Australia, teams definitely want their best outside back at full back so they can have the most involvement and impact. But it doesn't mean full back is their best position. From your list, I would say Holmes is a better winger than full back and I would say Mitchell is a better centre than full back. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Just now, Dunbar said: In Australia, teams definitely want their best outside back at full back so they can have the most involvement and impact. But it doesn't mean full back is their best position. From your list, I would say Holmes is a better winger than full back and I would say Mitchell is a better centre than full back. I agree but both play full back for their team and would both get in the England side at full back. England currently has hardly any options at no.1, 3, 4, 6, 7 which is a pretty sad state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 29 minutes ago, Scubby said: I agree but both play full back for their team and would both get in the England side at full back. England currently has hardly any options at no.1, 3, 4, 6, 7 which is a pretty sad state of affairs. Wrong. Before his recent injury Valentine Holmes was playing on the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: Wrong. Before his recent injury Valentine Holmes was playing on the wing. He is an accomplished fullback though and was fullback until they moved him after injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 53 minutes ago, Scubby said: Australia could potentially field 6 full backs in the back line 1. Tedesco 2. Holmes 3. Trbojevic 4. Mitchell 5. Papenhuyzen 6. Ponga Holmes is no longer rated as the best full back at the North Queensland Cowboys, let alone one of the best in the NRL. The current ranking would more likely be: 1. Tedesco 2. Trbojevic 3. Ponga 4. Tuivasa-Sheck. 5. Papenhuyzen 6. Gutherson 7. Mitchell 8. Dufty All of them are outstanding. Tomkins might be tied with Dufty in world rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: Tomkins might be tied with Dufty in world rankings. AJ Brimson may be around that level Manfred ? Three very similar types of players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 minute ago, DavidM said: AJ Brimson may be around that level Manfred ? Three very similar types of players I think that you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 hour ago, DavidM said: I don’t know , Wane will probably pick him and we’re not that blessed , but he was largely average in the NRL Apart from being being in completely the wrong NRL team for his style, he wasn't fit for half the games he played. Even when he went back to Wigan it took him the best part of a season to fully recover his fitness and sharpness. I also think he's one of those players who improve with age as they mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Whippet13 said: Apart from being being in completely the wrong NRL team for his style, he wasn't fit for half the games he played. Even when he went back to Wigan it took him the best part of a season to fully recover his fitness and sharpness. I also think he's one of those players who improve with age as they mature. We've had this conversation on this board a few times. Tomkins played well in his first year in the NRL and in his second year, when you expect a player to approach his best, he had an injury interrupted year. As you say, that injury seriously effected his first year back at Wigan as well. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: Wrong. Before his recent injury Valentine Holmes was playing on the wing. He was full back for the first 5 rounds of the season. Cowboys did play him on the wing for a couple of games after that but he is signed as a full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 36 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: Holmes is no longer rated as the best full back at the North Queensland Cowboys, let alone one of the best in the NRL. The current ranking would more likely be: 1. Tedesco 2. Trbojevic 3. Ponga 4. Tuivasa-Sheck. 5. Papenhuyzen 6. Gutherson 7. Mitchell 8. Dufty All of them are outstanding. Tomkins might be tied with Dufty in world rankings. Some high class players there, but the only time this or any other hypothetical list will actually matter is (hopefully) next year's WC final when it will be only one of their's against one of our's at full back . Tomkins does not have the sheer physical attributes of some on that list but he is turning into a world class leader, his ability to read the game and organising what's in front of him is as good as anyone on that list and is still improving. If we get to the WC final and have a pack capable of equally matching the opposition, Tomkins playing on form can match it with anyone on that list in a one-off game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 31 minutes ago, Dunbar said: We've had this conversation on this board a few times. Tomkins played well in his first year in the NRL and in his second year, when you expect a player to approach his best, he had an injury interrupted year. As you say, that injury seriously effected his first year back at Wigan as well. Like most fairytales, the notion that Tomkins (before his injury) was a dud in the NRL is one that people love to tell and re-tell. It doesn't make it any more true than the first time, but some people just find fairytales comforting. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, Whippet13 said: Some high class players there, but the only time this or any other hypothetical list will actually matter is (hopefully) next year's WC final when it will be only one of their's against one of our's at full back . Tomkins does not have the sheer physical attributes of some on that list but he is turning into a world class leader, his ability to read the game and organising what's in front of him is as good as anyone on that list and is still improving. If we get to the WC final and have a pack capable of equally matching the opposition, Tomkins playing on form can match it with anyone on that list in a one-off game. He is also versatile and can play 6 and 7 as well. Everyone always over rate Australians anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: He is also versatile and can play 6 and 7 as well. Everyone always over rate Australians anyway. The convicts have some amazing attacking full backs, I just don't think many (if any) have the level of all round skills and experience Tomkins has. For me, being a full back isn't just linking into or scoring an amazing try, it's also about how to read things, be vocal and organise the team structurally. Tomkins completely and absolutely ran the show today, I'm not sure how many current Australian fullbacks can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Whippet13 said: Some high class players there, but the only time this or any other hypothetical list will actually matter is (hopefully) next year's WC final when it will be only one of their's against one of our's at full back . Tomkins does not have the sheer physical attributes of some on that list but he is turning into a world class leader, his ability to read the game and organising what's in front of him is as good as anyone on that list and is still improving. If we get to the WC final and have a pack capable of equally matching the opposition, Tomkins playing on form can match it with anyone on that list in a one-off game. When you say physical attributes do you mean size? He is probably the best balanced runner I've ever seen and he's not short of pace so not sure where you're coming from with that comment. He's also a naturally talented player who has suffered some bad injuries, so to come back now is a credit to him. Essentially I agree, he's up there when on form. Still the best we have at no.1. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: When you say physical attributes do you mean size? He is probably the best balanced runner I've ever seen and he's not short of pace so not sure where you're coming from with that comment. He's also a naturally talented player who has suffered some bad injuries, so to come back now is a credit to him. Essentially I agree, he's up there when on form. Still the best we have at no.1. What I mean is some of those full backs are bigger or taller than Tomkins and that seems to get them extra kudos, wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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